What is plaguing Elite: Dangerous the most??? Content? Player Agency? Reward Balance?

The game's problem has always been that it's designed as singleplayer, but is being developed as multiplayer all the time.
This results in ED being an inch-deep ocean. (...)

I wanted to disagree. But when push comes to shove I fear you might be right.
 
The game's biggest problem has always been the fact that it's not presenting it's actual depth accurately to players, so they draw incorrect conclusions like the one I quoted. The depth is outside of the game, hidden in the forums, official literature, previous games and other information.

The ”depth” most players refer to isn’t depth of lore or story or world per say, they are referring to a lack of depth in the game’s mechanics. The core of the game is made up of simple mechanisms for varying aspects which rarely overlap and are for the most part disjointed and separate. When most players say they “want more depth” what they actually mean is they want the physical act of playing the game to be more interactive and more engaging mentally.

And this is, IMHO, ED’s largest problem by a huge margin. It’s why the concept of Beyond’s core improvements was so overwhelmingly popular.
 
Anyway, on topic:
I don't think rewards are a problem, in fact I couldn't care less about them. The reward for any activity should be that the mechanics themselves are fun and engaging and that's what they just don't manage to deliver.

- You'll need to drop in ten USS before you find the one you are looking for.
- Most time you spend in powerplay is looking at a boring station screen.
- Bounty hunting in RES is just farming completely unrealistic pirate spawns.
- If you look for a planet POI you'll have to wait until some weird blue circle spawns and quickly disappears.
- Multicrew is just a badly integrated 3rd person turret view + spectator mode.
- Engineers certainly improved but it's still looking for random materials that rarely follow any logic.
- The game has dozens of different modules and you can only use a few of them if you don't want to cripple your ship, some of that stuff should just be standard equipment.
- SLF can only used for combat, no cargo and passenger transfer for large ships at outposts for example.
- Exploring consists of pressing a single button.
- Finding specific coordinates on planets is a PITA, which is completely unnecessary
- CQC doesn't offer a decent lobby and self created matches
- etc.


Agreed. These and other similar things are the true shortcomings.

I couldn't give less of a flying fart about the rate of incoming imaginary currency, the lack of memorable experiences are the actual issue. Memorable experiences is what I stand to gain from a videogame. Pretend dollars mean squat.

Does anyone even remember how many gold coins they have on their Skyrim saves? Or caps from the Fallout saves? Or wrens from their Witcher saves? No one? Bueller?
 
The problem with this game is The Engineers. At least I could ignore Powerplay - but every time I try to engage with this aspect of the game, I come away so frustrated with the micro mechanics and the time consuming RNG nonsense that I quit, furious that I've wasted so much time achieving very little.
 
If Police Officers and an Office Workers both recieved the same pay an hour, then Police Officers would demand a raise as their job is WAY more life-threatening, stressful and time comsuming.

Because Police officers are notoriously well paid....I get paid more than any but very senior Police Officers...and trust me I never do anything dangerous, stressful or life threatening...
 
OP you identified one half of the problem - a poorly and inconsistently scaling rewards system.

The other half is more important though; lack of interesting and varied gameplay scenarios. If we had, for example, combat that took place in any other environment except (a) blank empty patches of space or (b) identical patches of planetary rings, then combat scenarios would be a thousand times more interesting and the longevity of combat-based gameplay would be far far greater. And players would put up with the terribly inconsistent/unbalanced rewards system, because the gameplay would be way more fun.

For example, imagine gameplay scenarios like: heists/base sabotage/virus upload/trench run/base defence/convoy protection... the possibilities are literally endless.
 
Reward Balance is plaguing Elite: Dangerous the most




INTRO AND THE TWO TYPES OF ELITE PLAYERS

The time you put into Elite does not equal the rewards you receive.
Players are only going to play games they feel are worth their time & effort and with a good chunk of the players being adults with jobs, this game can frustrate them the most because Elite can feel like a second job for the fact of the level of time it takes to do/get to do simple things in the game.

If Police Officers and an Office Workers both recieved the same pay an hour, then Police Officers would demand a raise as their job is WAY more life-threatening, stressful and time comsuming.

There are two types of players: (and some even shift between both categories) "Play for Fun" players and "Play for Progression" players.
Play for Fun players desires a fun game to play, as a game being fun to play is the reward itself. (ie. Sea Of Thieves)
Play for Progression players desire a system that gives them a sense of progress, results, and a practical (heavy emphasis on practical) goal to chase as they put time into a game. (ie. Fallout Series)

A good progression system benefits BOTH types of players, as a poor progression system only benefits the "play for fun" type of player as they don't care about a progression system.

As ships, modules, powerplay propaganda, combat, mining, trading and exploration all revolve around Credits and is the CORE of Elite, it's correct to say that earning Credits is Elite: Dangerous's MAIN Progression system.







GREAT CONTENT THAT AREN'T WORTH THE PLAYERS' TIME

There is SO MUCH to do in Elite: Dangerous that it'll take a while just to name it all, but the problem is most of it isn't worth the players' time because the reward they receive scares them away from ever doing it again or doing puts them off doing it at all.

Examples Being:
CQC - Very minor credits for playing and rank (which doesn't do anything)

POI's on Planets - VERY random on what is there, hard to pinpoint exact location, very little combat and tedious item pickups (SRV can only carry 2 at a time back to ship)

USS's (excluding material) - Random in difficulty, Hard find specific signals without the use of External Sources, little to no reward for most

Search and Rescue - Unbalanced rewards as rarer finds aren't significantly higher than others

Megaship Pirating - High risk, difficult to understand/master WITHOUT the use of external sources, very low cargo rewards

Guardian Tech - Hard to Prep for, difficult to find sites, VERY difficult to master the puzzles WITHOUT the use of external sources, MUCH repetition without skill is needed and Logging is encouraged to conserve on time (which is never a good sign for game design)

Thargoid Scouts - 10,000 credits per kill but are ONLY in specific locations on the outskirts of the bubble, meaning mainly experienced players with lots of money to afford the trip are going to go there and 10,000cr per kill might not seem enough for the trip and the repair cost to the player's hull for killing them

These are just some of the few that could have went SO MUCH further if the reward for doing them were worth the player's time and effort. This is the reason why "Play for Progession" players lean on Sothis and Ceos/Rhea at times. They feel this is worth they're time and effort for the reward even though it's just as (or even more) repetitve as the thing they were doing before.






IMBALANCED MISSION EXAMPLES (what I currently receive in the game + my opinion on the difficulty for AVERAGE player)

Mining
Time: 30min-2hour
Difficulty: low (BUT VERY COMPLICATED TO LEARN BY ONLY USING IN GAME TOOLS)
Profit: 1,200,000


Assassination
Time: 10-20min
Difficulty: Medium-High
Profit: 2,000,000

Trade
Time 7-15min
Difficulty: Low
Profit 600,000

Massacre Mission (90 ships)
Time 1-5hours
Difficulty Very High
Profit 5,000,000

Pirate Massacre Mission (90 ships)
Time 3-8hours
Difficulty: Medium (VERY HARD TO FIND TARGET USING ONLY IN GAME TOOLS AND IN GENERAL)
Profit 2,000,000


"Difficulty + Time = Reward" is imbalanced on missions at the moment and this forces players to do repetitive tasks that pay the most or stay in their comfort zone for progression. (players in the "play for fun" catagory are NOT included in any of this as Fun Gameplay = Reward)






MY SMALL OPINION ON PLAYER AGENCY

Player agency is a problem, but not as big as this leans more on mechanics that react a player rather than mechanics that reward a player.

HOW TO IMPROVE PLAYER AGENCY ON

MINOR FACTION
*Players could actually pledge to a minor faction
*Have more variety of choice of missions to fit they're playstyle (some factions only spawn 3 missions)
*Completing USS's around the faction's station/settlement (their sphere of influence) increased their Influence in the system

THARGOID NARRATIVE
*Have the thargoids ALSO invade important systems instead of ONLY sitting in their own part of space
*Paint the Thargoids in a more negative light
*Give players the option to ALSO protect a station from a Thargoid attack rather than just ONLY repairing the station afterwards
*Include Thargoid Vs NPC Ship Conflict Zones




CONCLUSION

Elite: Dangerous has A LOT of content in their game, way more than most Triple-A Games (and that's without hyperbole), but unfortunately Elite: Dangerous will never reach their full potential of being BETTER than a Triple-A Game if the imbalance continues to plague the game.

The reason why I still play Elite: Dangerous is because I have the money and ships that allows me to play MY way, and because of what Frontier Developments has put in front of me is like nothing I've seen before this motivates me to want to grow and be a part of the unfolding phenomenon that is Elite: Dangerous for years and years to come.

+Rep

Very well written.

I play for fun BUT also was to progress - is that weird?

I also want to say I disagree with police versus office workers because there are no office workers!

That is, everyone gets attacked - miners, traders, police.

I think the credits per hour should be similar because traders want to buy bigger ships and jump farther, while bounty hunters want more armor and weapons - really everyone needs cash to have fun and progress :)
 
I play for fun BUT also was to progress - is that weird?

No! You're like me: hovering somewhere in between the lines. Elite is FUN to play and has progression but not much progress can be made without the use of "exploits" and repetitive mission grinding so the fun is what keeps me around.

From Progress to Fun bar goes a little like this: Destiny - Fallout - Sea Of Thieves

Destiny (at it's core) is all about chasing numbers and rewards but is controversial about being fun

Fallout a perfect middle ground as it the player is encouraged to chase numbers and rewards but is also fun to play as it doesn't restrict players

Sea Of Thieves doesn't have progression but is fun to play
 
Problem 1: Disconnect between players in Open, meaning you do your thing and I'll do mine and never shall we cross paths except to say o7 in a slot.

Problem 2: No real single player mode

  • [*=1]Players were promised a real single player mode
    [*=1]Solo is the "leave me alone" mode
    [*=1]Other modes affect your game in Solo (influence, wars, etc...)
    [*=1]Player faction complaints affect my game in Solo (nerfing a route I may have found)

Problem 3: No user mods

Problem 4: Station board interface doesn't do justice to how well the stations are rendered

Problem 5: Powerplay

  • [*=1]Too easy to pledge and leave a power
    [*=1]Powers mean nothing in the grand scheme
    [*=1]Relies on bribes of special unlocks and Cr bonuses to get anyone interested
    [*=1]Takes too long to rank (some people cannot play every week, so it becomes useless to them)
    [*=1]Boring, repetitive tasks (entire game suffers from this)

Problem 6: Game sanctity must be preserved at all costs!

  • Neutered updates create boring gameplay (nerfing)


  • [*=1]Loyalists/Fanbois won't allow interesting things to happen (muh lore)
    [*=1]Game will decay, be shelved with most of the galaxy unexplored (muh 'mursion)
 
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My personal feeling is a lack of player agency. Missions are where this is particularly apparent. From taking a mission to completing a mission, the whole process seems largely out of the players' hands. How cool would it be, though, if non-violent interactions with NPC ships could create missions? Or if missions could spawn from scanning Persistent or Procedural Surface Settlements, Mega-ships or CQC assets? Or if missions could spawn from collecting certain items in space, or from scanning the PDB or Data Cores of ship wrecks? Not only are you giving the player agency, you make the galaxy itself feel more *alive*.

Mission wrinkles are another case in point. Instead of largely triggering in a "random", albeit predictable fashion, why not have them more often triggered by player action or inaction? Leaving a certain Mission until the last minute could make a "time bonus" or "enemies incoming" wrinkle more likely to trigger. Success or failure relating to one mission wrinkle should be able to trigger follow-up wrinkles. Success-& degree of success-or even failure of a mission should help determine if a follow-on mission occurs, & what kind of follow-on mission occurs.

Another example of where player agency could matter is by having the Commander's Log be a trigger for various random events in the game (like allies or nemeses....or.random mission offers)

The big one, though, is favours. The ability to call in favours with Engineers, Factions or Powers should be a means for more seasoned players to gain more control over the events in the game....albeit at a cost.
 
Problem 1: Disconnect between players in Open, meaning you do your thing and I'll do mine and never shall we cross paths except to say o7 in a slot.

Problem 2: No real single player mode

  • [*=1]Players were promised a real single player mode
    [*=1]Solo is the "leave me alone" mode
    [*=1]Other modes affect your game in Solo (influence, wars, etc...)
    [*=1]Player faction complaints affect my game in Solo (nerfing a route I may have found)

Problem 3: No user mods

Problem 4: Station board interface doesn't do justice to how well the stations are rendered

Problem 5: Powerplay

  • [*=1]Too easy to pledge and leave a power
    [*=1]Powers mean nothing in the grand scheme
    [*=1]Relies on bribes of special unlocks and Cr bonuses to get anyone interested
    [*=1]Takes too long to rank (some people cannot play every week, so it becomes useless to them)
    [*=1]Boring, repetitive tasks (entire game suffers from this)

Problem 6: Game sanctity must be preserved at all costs!

  • Neutered updates create boring gameplay (nerfing)


  • [*=1]Loyalists/Fanbois won't allow interesting things to happen (muh lore)
    [*=1]Game will decay, be shelved with most of the galaxy unexplored (muh 'mursion)

Funny. I have been accused of being a fanbois, & from where I am sitting its the casual non-fanbois who won't allow interesting things to happen. Make missions more difficult & engaging? Make NPC's more of a challenge? Nope.....nothing is allowed that gets in the way of the almighty "credits per hour".
 
Funny. I have been accused of being a fanbois, & from where I am sitting its the casual non-fanbois who won't allow interesting things to happen. Make missions more difficult & engaging? Make NPC's more of a challenge? Nope.....nothing is allowed that gets in the way of the almighty "credits per hour".

Well you could have both. Engaging and challenging missions that pay well.
 
There are two types of players: (and some even shift between both categories) "Play for Fun" players and "Play for Progression" players.

Let us not forget the third kind: those who play for neither fun nor progression (you know who you are).

And heck, now that I think of it, let us not forget the fourth kind: those who post more in the forums than play the game (we know who we are).
 
Funny. I have been accused of being a fanbois, & from where I am sitting its the casual non-fanbois who won't allow interesting things to happen. Make missions more difficult & engaging? Make NPC's more of a challenge? Nope.....nothing is allowed that gets in the way of the almighty "credits per hour".
More engaging != tanks more damage. FD will just have them tank more damage (and dish more out) but they'll still call your biowaste "tasty cargo" and still do stupid things. If they are going to be stupid, might as well be fun to kill. It's not like there's a limited amount of them or that they pay extraordinarily well.

Missions being more difficult just means NPCs tank more damage and dish more out, or you have to fly to yet another distant system to get a bounty removed from your head. That's not challenging, it's tedious and undesirable. The number of people who are willing to wade through all that is low, but that doesn't make them elite. The board is full of challenging missions now. It's not full of fun ones.
 
As someone else once said, if I have to use my scroll key on my mouse to read a post, it's going to be boring. There is no problem with ED, there is a problem with some ED players (probably millenials), who want everything now, and want to be drawn to a natural conclusion. by following breadcrumbs. to a given goal, no feathers to collect in ED, get with it, or foxtrot oscar to world of warcraft
 
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Oh, yes, so true. They look so great then all you get is that crumby interface.

And it's not just the options of the interface - the entire interface is like a spreadsheet of sorts. Outfitting is cool, you have your ship sitting there with HPs displayed and you see things added and removed, but the screens seem built to hit and run. The faction images are the same few people in every system, and it's not as if we don't visit many systems to notice that. They all look like villains from Scooby Doo or something along those lines.
 
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