Powerplay should not be made Open-only. Here's why... [EDITED]

[Kyennamo]

Power play in open only makes PERFECT SENSE.

Currently, powerplay is irredeemably broken. There are many issues but the CORE ISSUE is- There is no way to defend systems from being undermined if players undermine in solo or private group. It makes powerplay pretty stupid and useless for anything other than the special weapons. People can justgo into PG and screw over your home system and there is nothing you can do about it. Open only PP would fix that.

Also....."OPEN NEEDS A BUFF". Open is FAR more dangerous than solo or PG. There should be encouraging reasons to take that extra risk and play open.

Honestly though.....how about a compromise???

How about ....you can do powerplay related stuff in any mode.....but you can only EFFECT powerplay in OPEN.?

Is that a decent comprimise? Or r we just here to complain?

 

[Sterling MH]

I think that letting the designers have ideas and to explore and develop them

Sure, they can do that.Why remove PP from Solo and PG, though? That's not a new idea to explore. Explore new ones, not walk back on old ideas.

 

[True Phoenix]

Is PP content going to work...…

No it doesn't.

We truly are nit-picking our way toward oblivion.

 

[kofeyh]

Frontier assumed that people could play alone, including in solo, as part of a multiplayer mechanic. They also assumed this would work out fine.

Has it worked out fine? What if there is a problem in the game. Do you stick to what was said 4 years ago and assume this is perfectly valid 4 years later, or do you consider it may not have worked in actuality.

I am concerned people would prefer to railroad all change, because this is easier than facing the realities of what happens when intention meets actual outcomes.

Do you learn from mistakes, or repeat them. Because a lot of people are happy to complain the developer never listens or doesn't fix the game and why is it all so shallow.

Frontier proposes solutions to fairly obvious problems? Suddenly change is bad, let's dredge up every possible thing to block progress.

What do people even want?

 

[verminstar]

I posted this as a response to Sandro's thread, but it needs discussion here where normal replies can be made without incurring the wrath of breaking that Feedback section's rules..

Hi Sandro. I did some research.

Waaaaay back in Newsletter #72, Powerplay information was released on the 23rd April 2015.

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=b0a8ebba0b

In that newsletter, there is a quote from you...



So yes, when Powerplay was designed, sure, part of the reasoning behind it was to give players a reason to engage in PvP. That's obvious.

But you also took players who don't play in Open into account - right from the birth of Powerplay - and that is the product a lot of your customers bought into.

To remove that content from users of the "Solo" and "Private Group" game client connectivity mode/filter after 3 years is, frankly, just not cricket, old chap.

Also this dispels this recent disinformation I've been reading from a number of posters that Powerplay was introduced solely for direct PvP players only. I don't know why that lie has been propagated - it's simply not true; the statement "giving players a reason to engage in PvP" did not mean "Powerplay is PvP-only content" back then. It meant only that it gave players a reason or purpose for PvP.

Thats a subjective opinion on why PP shouldnt be in open only, and quoting a 3 year old line is semantic at best. Yer reasons would be based on the fact ye bought the game exclusively to play PP in solo and thats the only reason ye bought the game.

Thats your personal point of view, thats not a valid argument against anything. The game is not being taken away in pieces, just one piece. Using hyperbole does nothing to make the point any more relevant, just looks a bit like straw grasping desperation truth be told.

Its their game and when ye created an account here, ye agreed to something called terms and conditions...ye might wanna refresh yer memory a bit on exactly what those terms and conditions are. Frontier reserve the right to change or modify their game, regardless what may or may not have been promised in an off the cuff 3 year old statement. They didnt even have to tell anyone, they could have just gone ahead and done it and nobody can lift a finger to stop them...if anything, this is more like an ask the audience type thing to get a feel fer how the most popular opinions stand.

 

[Sterling MH]

How about ....you can do powerplay related stuff in any mode.....but you can only EFFECT powerplay in OPEN.?

OK, but there should be no change in the galaxy for solo/PG players. After all, it is unfair that they can't affect the changes that affect them.

And, no "Go open" isn't any more acceptable than "Go solo then" is an answer to those who think PP has to be solo only because "there's no way to combat solo actions in PP!". Go solo. Don't take a cutter and three wingies, go combat the scrublord in a D rated T9 by buying an A rated T9 and doing it faster than they. Heck, if you really are good and not a tryhard, do it in a D rated T9 and in open. If you're actually GOOD, you should still manage to avoid losing. This is what soloists are told will happen if we go Open.

"I backed E: D because I grew up with Frontier: Elite II "
Noob.

Mind you, I only played,not owned, Elite on the C64, I was second gen Elite on the Speccy.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I think dedicated powerplay groups didn't even exist when that statement was made.

Dedicated PP groups playing in Solo (only) are misunderstanding the concept of PP in the first place. It's a player group vs player group system .. avoiding PvP in a PvP system and still being effective is jus tabusing PvE to have an influence in PvP without doing direct PvP.

Why do you think PP is so inactive these days?

Most players have already cycled through all PP modules and are now unalligned as PP doesn't offer any interesting or valueable content apart from the already obtained modules.
I myself have been at rank 0 for years now. Why bother hunting other players's merits to stop systems from being undermined or fortified or expanded if a player can just be as effective with less to no risk (ever since engineers).

 

[Dietger]

It's rather obvious, when looking at which game modes PowerPlay was consciously implemented in, that alone could mean playing in any of the three game modes....

Correct Robert, Powerplay "multiplayer" is possible in&out off and against any mode up to this day. We need to be certain if PvP however, is.

I think that Sammarko was addressing direct player versus player actions, which per definitionem need an apposing presence, an opponent in "flesh&blood". No?

Just curious.

 

[Sterling MH]

Frontier assumed that people could play alone, including in solo. They also assumed this would work out fine.

Has it worked out fine? Honestly?

Yup. No problems here. You have some? So what? Why do I care? I mean care enough that I am willing to have my game reduced to make YOU feel happier. I ain't no Jesus Christ to offer you the shirt off my back AND all my possessions too just because you ask. Give me a reason to want you happier at my expense.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Power play in open only makes PERFECT SENSE.

Currently, powerplay is irredeemably broken. There are many issues but the CORE ISSUE is- There is no way to defend systems from being undermined if players undermine in solo or private group. It makes powerplay pretty stupid and useless for anything other than the special weapons. People can justgo into PG and screw over your home system and there is nothing you can do about it. Open only PP would fix that.

Also....."OPEN NEEDS A BUFF". Open is FAR more dangerous than solo or PG. There should be encouraging reasons to take that extra risk and play open.

Honestly though.....how about a compromise???

How about ....you can do powerplay related stuff in any mode.....but you can only EFFECT powerplay in OPEN.?

Is that a decent comprimise? Or r we just here to complain?

I'll be the first to agree that Powerplay being affected in Open game client connectivity mode makes logical sense - that is, if Elite: Dangerous was based on a purely client-server architecture and not the peer-to-peer networking it is in fact based on.

Because it is based on peer-to-peer networking - that's exactly how you as a Steely-Eyed-PvP'er can see and shoot at other player ships - it is very possible to prevent your game client connecting with other game clients - which means that the unscrupulous players running bots, or wings of fellow players, can still do their stuff against the Power which you support - and you'd not see any of them even if they selected Open game client connectivity mode, because your game client is being prevented from networking with their game clients. On top of that, Frontier would be removing the Powerplay content from those who choose to play in the Solo and/or Private Group game client connectivity mode, for what would amount to no appreciable difference in the Powerplay outcome.

In fact - the main problem Powerplay has, is that it is being run within a peer-to-peer game architecture, nothing else. You are blaming the symptom (players and 'botters') , not the cause.

 

[Sterling MH]

I think the Sammarko was addressing direct player versus player actions, which per definitionem need an apposing presence, an opponent in flesh&blood. No?[/h]

Nope. The Great British Bake Off is person-to-person competition. But they don't demand that they fight in the sarlaac pit to find out who won.

PP is supporting an NPC who "owns" a faction. PP is denuding the power of a faction whose NPC owner is against your owner's ideals. It's all Player vs NPC and Player w NPC.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

I posted this as a response to Sandro's thread, but it needs discussion here where normal replies can be made without incurring the wrath of breaking that Feedback section's rules..

Hi Sandro. I did some research.

Waaaaay back in Newsletter #72, Powerplay information was released on the 23rd April 2015.

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=b0a8ebba0b

In that newsletter, there is a quote from you...



So yes, when Powerplay was designed, sure, part of the reasoning behind it was to give players a reason to engage in PvP. That's obvious.

But you also took players who don't play in Open into account - right from the birth of Powerplay - and that is the product a lot of your customers bought into.

To remove that content from users of the "Solo" and "Private Group" game client connectivity mode/filter after 3 years is, frankly, just not cricket, old chap.

Also this dispels this recent disinformation I've been reading from a number of posters that Powerplay was introduced solely for direct PvP players only. I don't know why that lie has been propagated - it's simply not true; the statement "giving players a reason to engage in PvP" did not mean "Powerplay is PvP-only content" back then. It meant only that it gave players a reason or purpose for PvP.

Repped you here; because I couldn't rep you in the FF thread when I read your post.

 

[Vorxian]

Learned something new in this thread...

*goes home, sets up QOS Policing on router, limits ED to 12kbps - connection should work, but lag like hell enough to be an undesirable instance partner*

All this time, and I never thought to do this.

WIN!

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Dedicated PP groups playing in Solo (only) are misunderstanding the concept of PP in the first place. It's a player group vs player group system .. avoiding PvP in a PvP system and still being effective is jus tabusing PvE to have an influence in PvP without doing direct PvP.

It's a player-who-supports-a-Power against another-player-who-supports-a-different-Power system. Whether or not a bunch of players who support a certain Power group together, is irrelevent.

Also, ultimately, the Powerplay gameplay is exactly the same as the BGS gameplay - the best results are attained via the movement of PvE tokens.

Also, the main problem is that Powerplay as a concept only works 100% well if the game was purely client-server, and not based on peer-to-peer networking.

Also, any dream of being able to have an influence via direct PvP, is always going to be just a dream, as long as Powerplay is played within a game with a peer-to-peer architecture.

Why do you think PP is so inactive these days?

Because perhaps a large swathe of the player base simply isn't interested in Powerplay, other than perhaps obtaining those juicy Powerplay modules which were seeded within Powerplay as an encouragement to play Powerplay? Dunno.

Most players have already cycled through all PP modules and are now unalligned as PP doesn't offer any interesting or valueable content apart from the already obtained modules.
I myself have been at rank 0 for years now. Why bother hunting other players's merits to stop systems from being undermined or fortified or expanded if a player can just be as effective with less to no risk (ever since engineers).

There we go you just answered your own question

Also, do take into account what I said above - Powerplay as a concept is a very good idea - but ultimately it doesn't fully work due to the peer-to-peer nature of ED.

 

[znôrt]

No, it will not. The socio-technical factors have not been accounted for...

hm ... bots in open may hide in timezones or poor instancing, but once spotted they will be eaten by players, plus video evidence against them collected giving frontier a chance to act on the accounts. not perfect, but night and day compared to the current situation where they can potentially roam at will in stealth mode.

yes, i guess it's theoretically possible to make them simulate fighting back but that's going to be very difficult via screen grabbing, even so patterns will become evident pretty quickly. and if someone writes a bot that is indistinguishable from a cmdr then kudos to him, but they will still explode. imo yes indeed, this can be the end of bots at least for powerplay (unless players don't care, in that case they're not a problem anymore).

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The words "clutching" and "straws" spring to mind.

Basically.

 

[h347h]

I think dedicated powerplay groups didn't even exist when that statement was made.

Then you were out of touch. Dedicated PP groups started day 1.

 

[Perseus]

So you'd be fine with the PP modules being removed. It's not supposed to be static, right? And lets face it, I never used those anyway, so why should it affect my game?



Uh, he bought the game for the game. And now it's being taken off him in pieces.

Are you sure you know what the game is? It isn't just the bits you play.Its the entire content.

The game wasn't the game it is now when he bought it. It was a game concept for development, which seems to be well underway after these 4+years. This was stated at the time and trumps everything, IMO.
Nothing is actually being taken away at all, it's being developed.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

hm ... bots in open may hide in timezones or poor instancing, but once spotted they will be eaten by players, plus video evidence against them collected giving frontier a chance to act on the accounts. not perfect, but night and day compared to the current situation where they can potentially roam at will in stealth mode.

yes, i guess it's theoretically possible to make them simulate fighting back but that's going to be very difficult via screen grabbing, even so patterns will become evident pretty quickly. and if someone writes a bot that is indistinguishable from a cmdr then kudos to him, but they will still explode. imo yes indeed, this can be the end of bots at least for powerplay (unless players don't care, in that case they're not a problem anymore).

No, the bot-runners will simply prevent their Open game client connectivity mode bots from connecting with other game clients. They'll still be playing in Open, but you'll simply not ever see them.

I don't know why the bot-runners never thought of that before - perhaps they already have and the bots which have been discovered, are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Then you were out of touch. Dedicated PP groups started day 1.

How were there dedicated PP groups when there was no PP to be dedicated to?