I remember doing a similar thing with Frontier: Elite 2. From Sol, I just held the Up and Left keys on the keyboard and kept scrolled. After about 20 minutes, I got bored, so I taped the Up and Left keys down on the keyboard and went out. When I got back at least an hour, maybe more, later, it was still going...
The Galaxy is BIG
- Thread starter Special_Circumstances
- Start date
I remember doing a similar thing with Frontier: Elite 2. From Sol, I just held the Up and Left keys on the keyboard and kept scrolled. After about 20 minutes, I got bored, so I taped the Up and Left keys down on the keyboard and went out. When I got back at least an hour, maybe more, later, it was still going...
It could be that we never reach The core because there is no viable Jump route.
Or the viable jump route in is on the other side of the galaxy.
It all depends in the procedural generation and the amount of gas giants seeded.
If its really hard we will start seeing a dedicated forum for core jumpers.
Or the viable jump route in is on the other side of the galaxy.
It all depends in the procedural generation and the amount of gas giants seeded.
If its really hard we will start seeing a dedicated forum for core jumpers.
If you go in a straight line towards the galactic center then, eventually, you reach the inside edge of the spiral arm the current bubble is in. If anyone wants to avoid the scrolling then search for PRAEA EUQ SX-A A66-0 in the galaxy map navigation search box. Zoomed far enough back to see spiral arms this doesn't actually look like it is at the extreme edge of the arm but there aren't any stars, that I can see, in a direct line from here to the center. This is over 1400 light years from the starting bubble. It looks to me like less than a tenth of the straight line distance between the starting bubble and the center. We've all heard of dark systems but I don't think there could possibly be enough of those to make the huge distances to cut directly between spiral arms.
We don't even know what the main limiting factor of exploration will be. It might be single jump distance - eventually coming across a large gap most ships can't jump. It might be fuel capacity - singles jumps are ok but opportunities to refuel are rare. It might be engine durability. It might be simple hull durability - given void creature attacks and maybe damage while scooping. It might be any one of these and a constant search for the dark system that makes the vital missing link along the path.
We don't even know what the main limiting factor of exploration will be. It might be single jump distance - eventually coming across a large gap most ships can't jump. It might be fuel capacity - singles jumps are ok but opportunities to refuel are rare. It might be engine durability. It might be simple hull durability - given void creature attacks and maybe damage while scooping. It might be any one of these and a constant search for the dark system that makes the vital missing link along the path.
There's only one way to find out
*salute* o7
When explorer George Mallory was asked by a reporter, "Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?" he replied simply "Because it's there."
Same goes for those of us who want to explore E-D's galaxy.
Mallory also had this to say about why explorers explore :-
"Why do we travel to remote locations? To prove our adventurous spirit or to tell stories about incredible things? We do it to be alone amongst friends and to find ourselves in a land without man." - George Mallory
Same goes for those of us who want to explore E-D's galaxy.
Mallory also had this to say about why explorers explore :-
"Why do we travel to remote locations? To prove our adventurous spirit or to tell stories about incredible things? We do it to be alone amongst friends and to find ourselves in a land without man." - George Mallory
In relation to this, i would hope that along with fuel scoops FD provide a way to repair things ourselves if we need to, like the 'hull auto repair' system used in Frontier and FFE. I think that worked for engines also?
Two points...
First, I watched a video back in alpha days of someone flying between systems in FrameShift rather than hyperjump. Didn't quite work as expected... and it takes a while... but it can be done. No idea on fuel restrictions though.
Second, if the option exists to build stations in asteroids or whatnot, I can see a slow steady progression happening towards the galaxy core. Kind of like a pilgrimage route of watering holes. That would be fun.
First, I watched a video back in alpha days of someone flying between systems in FrameShift rather than hyperjump. Didn't quite work as expected... and it takes a while... but it can be done. No idea on fuel restrictions though.
Second, if the option exists to build stations in asteroids or whatnot, I can see a slow steady progression happening towards the galaxy core. Kind of like a pilgrimage route of watering holes. That would be fun.
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If you can deploy machines on large 'roids that develop a station over time by turning the asteroids resources into metals and systems, then I will make a string of docks all the way to the core.
As far as I recall, when I bought Frontier for my Amiga, I couldn't wait to explore the galactic map. After a lot of clicking I discovered if I put my video camera's battery carefully over the Shift and Left arrow keys, the pointer scrolled across the map at quite a pace. When I came back from supper, the pointer had left the galaxy and was in very deep space, but at the extreme edge of the screen I was excited to see another galaxy! I thought I'd discovered Andromeda but it turned out that was just the way the program worked and it was essentially the galaxy I'd just left.
You just hit a void area in PRAEA, but you can go around it. I went on the same mission and hit slightly to the left of your angle (-X) and haven't hit a wall yet. I'm at LYSOORB SO-Y A1-1 in the middle of the next arm.
As you get closer to the core the density / closeness of stars should increase. Once sufficiently close jump distance should not be a problem. All the radiation and heat may be a different story, but probably not in the game.
What FD will put in the core and how it will look is more the mystery to me. Lots of procedural on the way but they can anticipate players working to the core. Will they spend any time to have an artist create something special? Possibly this can be delayed as there is no hope of even a team reaching the core in a few months even if auto-repair field units will function long enough to allow the trip.
Initial reports will be interesting, to see how far players get.
I really hope in this regard that FD are able to build out the "out of first person view mode" galactic map into a tool for sharing and socializing like Google Maps. None of us will be able to visit all the systems so being able to check out what other Elite Federation Pilots have seen via pinned postcards and the like is a really appealing idea to me.
Oh and to be able to see there are 5 crazies really far away from anyone else and see jumps in real-time... that would be really cool.
Nice. I suppose it's hard to know what the largest jump needed to make it in a straight line to that system is. Just judging by the galaxy map, this close to the center the gap in between the arms is a bit misty. Which must mean sparse systems. In your journey did it ever seem sparse enough that there might be too big a gap to jump?
I think most explorers will either travel bee line to the center or inwards on the arm. I think I'll keep an eye on where the edges of explored space are extending and try and find something in the opposite direction.
This reminds me of a project me and a friend of mine attempted back in the '90's with Elite Frontier.
After three years of playing the same save file, in an imperial trader, we headed towards the core and managed to get..... nowhere near the galaxy core They say the scale of the galaxy is beyond human comprehension, and boy they weren't kidding.
I cannot wait to get restarted on an epic journey in Dangerous, but have no illusions guys, we are not going to see the core without spending an inconceivable amount of time trying to get there.
Either that or a huge amount of resources and some serious teamwork.
It may be an impossible task, but that wont stop it being fun!
After three years of playing the same save file, in an imperial trader, we headed towards the core and managed to get..... nowhere near the galaxy core
They say the scale of the galaxy is beyond human comprehension, and boy they weren't kidding.I cannot wait to get restarted on an epic journey in Dangerous, but have no illusions guys, we are not going to see the core without spending an inconceivable amount of time trying to get there.
Either that or a huge amount of resources and some serious teamwork.
It may be an impossible task, but that wont stop it being fun!
Interesting thoughts. I doubt we will see others in the map in real time. As I understand it explorers have to get back to an inhabited system and sell the new map data for others to have access. So we'll see how others effect the map rather than them on the map. But I suppose there must be social tools so if an explorer chooses to show you their location maybe we will. Personally I hope the mentioned multi point route plotting has things like save-able and share-able routes. It is actually quite hard to visualise sometime because of the 3D nature so the tools available are important.
Visiting them all ?
Wow.
Travelling Saleman Problem. NP Hard.
Even if it were one star per second and you could teleport between them so your route did not matter it would still take 12683.9 years to visit them all*.
And if you want to do it in the game then you need a route and that route is limited by the ship jump range and some systems you may only be able to get to by back tracking through hundreds or possibly millions of other systems just to increase your visit tally by one.
I ran out of maths at the back tracking part and even without that I can't get to a consistent answer I'm even vaguely willing to support.
I don't know enough to be able to have a good stab at getting an approximation even.
I'm not sure that even an approximation, given the ship constraints, would be possible to calculate or compute in any meaningful time scale.
The galaxy is big.
REALLY BIG.
* 400x10^9 stars.
Wow.
Travelling Saleman Problem. NP Hard.
Even if it were one star per second and you could teleport between them so your route did not matter it would still take 12683.9 years to visit them all*.
And if you want to do it in the game then you need a route and that route is limited by the ship jump range and some systems you may only be able to get to by back tracking through hundreds or possibly millions of other systems just to increase your visit tally by one.
I ran out of maths at the back tracking part and even without that I can't get to a consistent answer I'm even vaguely willing to support.
I don't know enough to be able to have a good stab at getting an approximation even.
I'm not sure that even an approximation, given the ship constraints, would be possible to calculate or compute in any meaningful time scale.
The galaxy is big.
REALLY BIG.
* 400x10^9 stars.
I've not seen any nebulas yet? Anyone tried looking for them?
Note: I just gave the Homunculus Nebula a go... Eta Carinae is there, about where I imagine it's supposed to be (when considering the fact I'm no astrophysicist and largely have no idea where its actually supposed to be)... Its big, bright and pinky red... but no nebula of supernova ejected matter darn... got myself all excited...
darn... got myself all excited...Didn't they say/write something about nebulae not being implemented in game?
The idea that we'll ever be able to visit even 400 thousand stars, let alone 400 million or billion, is ludicrous (1 billion seconds is over 31.5 years, longer than it's been since the first Elite came out).
The idea that we'll ever be able to visit even 400 thousand stars, let alone 400 million or billion, is ludicrous (1 billion seconds is over 31.5 years, longer than it's been since the first Elite came out).