I'm also confident. [up]
Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'
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I'm also confident. [up]
If you had a proper "legal background" you'd also understand the notion of a company acting in "good faith". There is a good faith business expectation that if someone is selling you a "lifetime expansion pass" that it will cover more than one expansion, especially when the cost of what they're selling is priced at 4X the cost of the single paid expansion that is currently availalbe. To argue otherwise isn't a "legal" argument at all. In fact in many cases trying to sell an LEP without providing corresponding content is either considered false advertising or would require refunds to be offered if future content wasn't actually developed.
It's amusing how many people on these forums claim to have a "legal background" and then proceed to make an argument from a nonsensical position that doesn't actually acknowledge basic customer protection laws or advertising standards.
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1st off i DONT have a legal background, but i would guess that may be because of the global nature of the forum (or it could be people talking rubbish)... but i could imagine the laws in Europe are very different in the US, which are different again in Pakistan and again in Kenya..... for instance.
This is where my mind begins to boggle. If we were talking about money, I would understand the sentiment. I backed at the Alpha level on the basis of David Braben's vision, and part of the decision to do so was that it came with LEP.
But having Kickstarted or Early Accessed quite a few games, I'm not about to play a game I don't enjoy in order to "invest" my precious free time in the hopes that it'll actually become fun future. I respect my free time far too much for that. If I don't enjoy a game, I shelve it and come back later, test the new additions until it becomes not fun again (I like learning new things), and do something else I enjoy.
For the last 4 years, that something else has been Elite: Dangerous. I've logged only... heh "only"... 600 hours into this game since I reset my Commander in Gamma, and maybe another 20 or so in the second account (it's my "I want to experiment, but not with my main" account), and while I can't say I've enjoyed every minute of it, I have enjoyed at least 90% of my time.
The times I haven't had a blast playing this game are generally with aspects game I have an interest in, but don't currently have a lot of fun doing. One is mining (part of my Commander's backstory was being mentored by an ancient asteroid prospector), and the other is exploration. Both of these activities I put on the shelf until new elements are added, I'll then test them out, and if I still don't have fun, I put them back on the shelf until something new is added to them. Quarter 4 promises to be very interesting, in terms of new game mechanics to learn.
It's not, really. Everything I've acquired in this game has been a byproduct of having fun playing this game. My stable of ships, my "tool box" of modules, my collection of materials for engineering, my rank with the Empire, it was all acquired through having fun, as opposed to doing something one must endure in order to have fun later.
Which, I suppose, is why my mind boggles. If someone doesn't enjoy the basic game loops, why do they think it'll be better later? It's their precious free time, they're supposed to do something they find fun and unwind from the actual grind of earning a living.
Selling someone something that isn't actually delivered and then trying to keep the customer's money isn't generally allowed in the US or Canada. In fact the advertising standards are rather strict about how products are described and advertised to prevent edge cases of customers being misled by technicalities that aren't reasonable, i.e., the business is expected to be acting in good faith and not trying to trick or mislead the customer. The customer protection laws are much stronger in the UK which is where FD is based so anything that you could not get away with here in North America is going to be even harder to attempt in the UK. There is also an issue of how you made the purchase as certain payment methods are much easier than others to obtain a refund if there is a dispute. I always try to make any large purchase with a credit card because in the event of a dispute the credit card company is generally likely to side with the customer and process a chargeback to the business.
I rarely actually get refunds because I carefully consider what I am purchasing before I buy it, but in the case of LEP holders they have a very legitimate claim that FD has not delivered anything remotely comparable to the value of what they had purchased. Like I mentioned several times already, they are being thrown right under the bus by FD and no amount of legal "technicalities" are going to change that, particularly if an LEP holder decides to ask for a refund on the basis of content not actually being delivered.
LEP means you get expansions for no further funds and other people pay for them. It doesn't guarantee the number of expansions, content of expansions, financial lifetime of the product itself or technical feasibility.
It's similar to a football club season ticket, if your club does really well you get to see lots of matches for no further cost. If your club does badly you get to see less matches and the people buying tickets on the day might actually end up paying less to see them all.
It's effectively a gamble as the outcome isn't fixed.
Except that you know a minimum amount of games beforehand. In Elite we didn´t know anything, even Horizons wasnt announced at the time I bought the LEP.
I don't get why you're "boggled" here. Did you read my description of the grind invested into my Krait so far? It's around 60 hours so far for a ship that isn't even "endgame" level. I have 30 ships at a similar level, which you can figure works out to approximately 1800 hours invested in my ships give or take. That's how long it takes to grind for those ships if you add all the time spent earning credits, rank, mats, Engineering modules and so on. You can figure the remainder, around 600 hours, would include other activities such as a trip to SagA, my MEF thread and so on. Really it's not hard to end up with that much gametime over 3.5 years.
I'm sorry but I'm not buying that. Either your definition of "fun" involves boring repetitive gameplay or you quite simply haven't done certain activities. Have you driven around for hours on planets farming mats or done countless base runs to collect hundreds and hundreds of MEF? That is a grind. Sorry, but it is. Same with searching for High-Grade Emissions signal sources or missions that give EFCs. There are certain activities that had to be done over and over again to get certain mats.
If you only ever did "fun" activities there should be massive gaps in your ship roster and Engineering because certain in-game achievements are not going to just "happen" unless you seek out very specific and repetitive activities and do them over and over again.
That is the definition of a grind.
Like I said, I invested time into the game with the expectation that the progress would build up over time and leave me in a situation where I enjoy the new gameplay. The point of grinding for an Anaconda was to have a ship that could support SLFs. The point of grinding SLF pilot ranks was to use those SLFs. It turns out that FD hasn't developed the SLF gameplay in any way since it launched, including the ridiculous insta-death of our pilots that just leads to another grind. The time I invested in the grind did not lead to better SLF gameplay, it just lead to another recursive grind-loop. There was a massive amount of promise and potential that was discussed by the devs when Horizons was being developed and it quite simply never materialized. Even Beyond has just given us more grind instead of the promised improvements to core gameplay.
That's why I took a break of around 6 months and have only just now started getting back into Elite again. I started winding down my gameplay when I saw how underwhelming the Thargoids were after 2.4 and was even more convinced to stay away from Elite when 3.0 just delivered more grind and devalued my prior Engineering efforts. The only aspect of 3.1 that has me playing again is the Krait, and even that ship has involved getting back to some sort of grind to further my SLF pilots training, but at least I have a ship I enjoy flying at the moment.
Not necessarily, if your club drops down a division or never gets beyond early rounds you are looking at less matches that are potentially cheaper bought as day tickets. The opposite is also true.
So I'm not usually one to stick up for Frontier, but I will say one thing. The Krait's visuals are pretty good, and you don't get something like that done in a few days. My point, is that noone here had any idea until the update when live, how the ship was going to actually look in detail, and it was excellent. (it's modules and weapon placement aside).
I am going out on a limb here, but I suspect there ARE things being worked on, that will be released as paid DLC. We all knew Thargoids were coming, for example, and lets be very honest here, it took a LONG time till their first appearance.
My guess is Frontier take quite a while to developing such things. Unfortunately, they don't really communicate much to the outside world - probably to avoid promising this and that, and being late or suchlike. The cynical could suggest they learned this from the original Kickstater promised development path, and since decided to keep things to themselves... but this doesn't help the LEP'ers from feeling (rightfully) aggrieved.
If it wasn't for the obvious time and effort put into the new ships, I could have maintained my original stance that ED was now in maintenance mode, but I'm willing to give Frontier one last chance to make things right. The framework is all in place. Make the next DLC a fundamental change of the core mechanics, and give the galaxy a point. Add the things that are missing to give the universe a soul, and make this new content worth a £39.99 value. Give LEP'ers a couple of exclusive skins, a few decals. Live up to the dream that everyone has for the game.
I am going out on a limb here, but I suspect there ARE things being worked on, that will be released as paid DLC. We all knew Thargoids were coming, for example, and lets be very honest here, it took a LONG time till their first appearance.
My guess is Frontier take quite a while to developing such things. Unfortunately, they don't really communicate much to the outside world - probably to avoid promising this and that, and being late or suchlike. The cynical could suggest they learned this from the original Kickstater promised development path, and since decided to keep things to themselves... but this doesn't help the LEP'ers from feeling (rightfully) aggrieved.
If it wasn't for the obvious time and effort put into the new ships, I could have maintained my original stance that ED was now in maintenance mode, but I'm willing to give Frontier one last chance to make things right. The framework is all in place. Make the next DLC a fundamental change of the core mechanics, and give the galaxy a point. Add the things that are missing to give the universe a soul, and make this new content worth a £39.99 value. Give LEP'ers a couple of exclusive skins, a few decals. Live up to the dream that everyone has for the game.
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It still requires that there is further game development of those paid expansions. You can't sell a "pass" for something that isn't developed.
It's not a "gamble" at all. If the company is choosing not to make that content that is a deliberate development decision. That is not a "random" outcome, that is deliberately not developing paid content that would correspond to the value that LEP owners have paid for it.
Sorry but buying online content is not a "gamble", it's a purchase of digital content that is covered by various consumer protection laws.
Ditto, I took a bit of a punt and frankly have already got my £35*-worth of value simply from the planetary landings in Horizons. However, this doesn't excuse the lack of news on when will hear about 2018 LEP/premium content, and if there is going to be none then FDev should spit that out too.
'For the avoidance of doubt'... ahem... I'm not asking FDev for what is coming, I'm asking them for when they are going to tell us - a simple one-liner will suffice.
Ditto for an ETA on hula-girl/boy bobbleheads. Ta muchly.
* Later purchasers of the LEP however paid a lot more.
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Hopefully FD will make the connection between developing high-quality content, i.e. the Krait, and customers spending more money on Elite. I've already purchased around $12.50 worth of engine colors and nameplates for my Krait and that is money that FD would not have gotten if the Krait wasn't such a good ship. The obvious message here is that if FD produces good content, whether it's a ship or a new game feature, customers will reward that by spending money on the game.
If they give specifics on timings and it happens early or late due to entirely unavoidable circumstances then "they lied". If they give specifics on content then people start going mental because it's not what they think it should be, and start theory crafting all kinds of unrealistic rubbish setting themselves up for future disappointment and years of whinging.
So FDEV said it'll be coming after beyond which we know is slated to be complete towards the end of the year, so expect it around then. They've got wiggle room for the timeline not being totally predicable, once they can make a more accurate estimate they probably will.
Personally i would be happy, if as a LEP Owner i would get 50 Units of every Gr4/Gr5 Material/Data and some credits per week... just to avoid the grinding... 
Personally i would be happy, if as a LEP Owner i would get 50 Units of every Gr4/Gr5 Material/Data and some credits per week... just to avoid the grinding...
Remember though that FD is against "buying" in-game progression of any kind, whether it's credits, mats, rank, ships or any other "advantage" that you might gain from spending money directly on the game. So they could never give you any sort of in-game benefit for your LEP purchase.
Inexplicably, FD is somehow OK with buying second accounts to benefit from multicrew bonuses because Sandro told us straight-up that it's permitted behavior to buy a second account and leave it connected for the multicrew bonus. As a result the $40 USD I spent on my second Elite account is actually the best value I've purchased so far since it gives me a very specific gameplay advantage which none of my cosmetics purchases have provided. In fact I bought the second account as much for the purpose of having an "NPC" occupy a second seat in my ship for decoration as I did for any sort of gameplay advantage, but the fact that I get a customizable cockpit "decoration", an extra power pip and a rebuy discount all for $40 was too good for me to pass up.
I suspect that the squadron game mechanics where you need a certain amount of CMDRs to get access to certain benefits such as a squadron carrier will also be treated in a similar manner, i.e., players will just buy multiple accounts if they want a "solo" carrier. I can expect here that FD will also consider this "permitted" behavior as they have set a clear precedent with second multicrew accounts and it will not really be possible to go back on that policy when squadrons are launched. I also expect that FD saw a noticeable spike in the sales of second accounts when multicrew launched and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of their marketing "strategy" to encourage players to spend more money on the game.
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Personally i would be happy, if as a LEP Owner i would get 50 Units of every Gr4/Gr5 Material/Data and some credits per week... just to avoid the grinding...
Stop grinding.
That is the same as telling someone to stop playing the game.
So much this. I really like the basic game, it's something I've now spent a huge amount of time playing & I still regularly play for several hours at a time several days per week.
I want more of the same. I like the surface work, driving the SRV, I want to be able to explore more of the worlds I find (atmospheric landings), I want to be able to find more things, I want to be able to interact with them in new & interesting ways (spacelegs), I want to be able to use my experience of previous encounters to solve problems with a thorough understanding of the in-universe game rules.
I took a bunch of missions the other day, several of which threw Deadly Pirate Condas at me. I was in my mission running Python that could take on one at a time, but not multiple dropping into one instance so I fought the multiple interdictions & jumped into a nearby High-sec system, submitted to the first interdiction & used the Police assistance to help tear them all apart & claim their bounties.
I like that I can solve problems this way, I want more stuff like this.
In a different session again I had a bunch of missions on board, my last three were a pair of base scans & a cargo run, all in the same system. I failed to think it through, and tried to do the scans first. The first got me wanted, but I completed it no problem. Then I went to scan the second one but some clean pirates arrived. I killed them no problem, and claimed their bounties but now I had notoriety too. Had I thought about it I should have dropped off the cargo first before attempting the second scan. Again I liked that the game was able to throw that scenario at me.
I just want more game, more options, more ways to get myself into trouble & figure out a way to get out of it again
I'm soo tempted to report this post.
On topic:
I'm confident the LEP will be worth it. Surely the big updates, that we all know are coming, will have to be paid for and I'm interested to see what this year's Premium content will turn out to be.
That being said, I think it's completely understandable that people are getting a bit angry. "We paid extra, but didn't get anything extra." And that's over three to four years now.
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