Frontier, can we PLEASE have a new Exploration ship now?

[Factabulous]

Some people just want to explore in total autonomy. If Admundsen had the opportunity to bring AFMU's with him, he'd done it, and wouldn't have said "just don't crash into icebergs", silly.

You should read up on your polar expeditions

Amundsen went to get to the pole first - minimal exploration - he'd have taken a shield-less Imperial Courier for the speed.

Scott would have taken all the AFMUs and let the weight slow him down & kill him due to bad luck.

We should have a new thread - what ship configurations for historical figures

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

And Ranulph Fiennes went to the North Polo alone and unsupported.

Mandatory means you HAVE to have it, not just that it'll make your life easier.

Yeah exactly: choices. Why refuse to have more of them? Of the 8 large ships ingame, 4 are combat, 2 are passenger, 2 are transport and one multipurpose, and no explorer, it's as simple as that.

Well, opinions have been given, I've laid down my arguments, have your ways guys. It's not your opinion I want to change anyway. o7

 

[Ian Doncaster]

We don't want to say "oh well this ship only sacrifices 10LY of range, it'll be fine" because no combat pilot ever has to say "Oh this ship only sacrifices pitch rate and a ton of armor and shields ... it'll be fine". Even if they are exceptionally picky, they still have a ton of options. Explorers do not.

Which is because combat ships have a ton of parameters - speed, turn rates, hardpoint set, convergence, distributor, shield, armour, laterals ... and a whole bunch more subtle ones, so a ship can be pretty terrible at a few of them and really good at the rest and still be a viable PvP combat ship. Also, there is room for a lot of different combat ships - a FAS is nothing like an FDL is nothing like a Cutter - because they can be good at different things.

Exploration ships have one major parameter - jump range - and a bunch generally considered less important (internal count - but not size, and only up to a point, view, supercruise agility). So there's - currently! - nothing you can really sacrifice to get variety. If it has less jump range than "all of it" then explorers won't consider it as good as the Anaconda. And if it does have that much jump range and is even marginally better at the rest, then it just replaces the Anaconda.

Thus, the Krait - 7th highest unengineered jump range in the game, higher than the T-6 which used to be considered a pretty good exploration ship in its own right - can get about 60 LY range engineered and boosted with all the standard exploration kit, scoop > FSD, plenty of internals, agile, good view - is apparently not good enough.

Even the Python, with 9 internals in a range of sizes and the ability to exceed 50LY range with engineering and guardian booster, or get a decent 40 LY range [1] in multirole fit with combat capabilities, is rarely considered by explorers (I did almost all my exploration in one, and if I went on another long expedition I'd take it again).

Until and unless Frontier add more major parameters to exploration - and make the Anaconda bad at some of them - there can only be one.

[1] More, to put some perspective on it, than virtually any of the participants in the first DWE had on their journey to Beagle Point. Some of them even had to use jump boosts to get there! Unimaginable nowadays, of course, when an exploration Corvette - a Corvette! - can have 44 LY range in an exploration fit (with boost and 2 SRVs)

 

[MrFailfactory]

Thus, the Krait - 7th highest unengineered jump range in the game, higher than the T-6 which ​

used

to be considered a pretty good exploration ship in its own right - can get about 60 LY range engineered and boosted with all the standard exploration kit, scoop > FSD, plenty of internals, agile, good view - is apparently not good enough.​

The importance of this gross change in what is considered to be acceptable cannot be overstated.

Their attitude is appalling, really.

+1, Commander

Riôt

 

[Valorin]

Exploration ships have one major parameter - jump range - ...

I think that's exactly the point. The reason why jump range is the only important parameter, is the fact that there is no real challenge testing our ships when exploring. Sure, thrusters might be a thing when landing on high G worlds, but other than the thrill there is no incentive or reason to do that. Same with heatlevels. If there were a reason to go closer to stars, like collecting data or gas or whatever, heat would suddenly be important for exploration ships. Just two ideas for connected ship specs with exploration and there are a lot more if somebody would go through the possibilities.

But apart from this, and the lack of interactive stuff for exploration, us non-combat pilot, or part time killers/explorers, still can wish for another ship like the AspX or DBX or Anaconda with an exceptional jumprange and would definitely trade that for bad internal compartments and cardboard armour. Also, it has to look cool (which is very subjective... All imperial ships look like ugly luxury junk to me. just sayin' . )

 

[Zelos1983]

And everything else was somewhat less than that. Engineering and module proliferation has only made the situation worse.

If you honestly think that improving the overall FSD jumprange for your exploration vessels has made those vessels worse for exploration, you are free to not use engineering.

The solution has never been to replace Anaconda; it's to narrow the gap.

But if there would be a new large exploration vessel, it must be better than the Anaconda, or else people won't buy it

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I think that's exactly the point. The reason why jump range is the only important parameter, is the fact that there is no real challenge testing our ships when exploring. Sure, thrusters might be a thing when landing on high G worlds, but other than the thrill there is no incentive or reason to do that. Same with heatlevels. If there were a reason to go closer to stars, like collecting data or gas or whatever, heat would suddenly be important for exploration ships. Just two ideas for connected ship specs with exploration and there are a lot more if somebody would go through the possibilities.

But apart from this, and the lack of interactive stuff for exploration, us non-combat pilot, or part time killers/explorers, still can wish for another ship like the AspX or DBX or Anaconda with an exceptional jumprange and would definitely trade that for bad internal compartments and cardboard armour. Also, it has to look cool (which is very subjective... All imperial ships look like ugly luxury junk to me. just sayin' . )

I'm aware that I'm an outlier, but...

Jump range is not the deciding factor for me when choosing an exploration ship. Visibility and SC handling are more important- probably because the way I explore involves an awful lot of flying around in SC and looking out of the window.

So I fly an AspX with two empty module slots and a 48LY range. I intend to try the Kra2t at some point which will mean even more empty slots - once I've got bored with collecting mats in the 'IS EXCLUSIVE", my Cobra IV.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

1. Shield
2. Fuel Scoop
3. Cargo
4. Fuel Limpet
5. AFMU 1
6. AFMU 2
7. Repair Limpet
8. ADS
9. DSS
10. SRV bay
11. Guardian FSD booster
12. Fighter (for multicrew derping, or exploration miniship maybe)
13. (optional) Collector limpet
14. (very optional) Extra tank!
15. (SUPER optional) Docking computer
16. (would be nice) Hull reinforcement
17. (would be nice) Module reinforcement

And that's not counting running into something neat, and being unequipped with recon or research limpets, which would be a neat thing to add as well, scattered around. Put in a dozen things scattered 20k-50k ly away from Sol in random places, see if people hit any of them.

That's nuts. This is what you need, in order of priority for exploring.

1. Scoop, obviously
2. ADS, obviously
3. DSS, for more exploration data but I've seen explorers skip this nonetheless.
4. SRV, for synthesis materials gathering and scanning Thargoid/Guardian/Unknown surface installations.

Optionally:

5. Guardian FSD booster, to cut down on dull travel time
6. Shield, a bit of insurace against NPCs on the way back to the bubble with data and some added protection against unexpectedly high-g planetary landings.

As for the other stuff, those aren't exploring-related but they will wreck your jump range!

Cargo? What for. There aren't stations outside of the bubble or Colonia to trade with
Fuel limpets? What for? Anyone you meet out in the black should have a scoop and an SRV. If they don't, that's a job for the rats, not you.
AMFUs? Where are you getting this damage from? crashing into stars? Just learn to zero your throttle during the jump countdown.
Fighter? For exploring? Uhhhh, wow.
Combat reinforcements? For exploring? Uhhhh, also wow.
Docking computer? To dock with what, exactly? If you're in an inhabited system, you're *by definition* not exploring.
Fuel tank? I'll let you have that one as an optional. If you don't have an SRV then it's a workaround for that instead.

 

[Zelos1983]

1. Shield
2. Fuel Scoop
3. Cargo
4. Fuel Limpet
5. AFMU 1
6. AFMU 2
7. Repair Limpet
8. ADS
9. DSS
10. SRV bay
11. Guardian FSD booster
12. Fighter (for multicrew derping, or exploration miniship maybe)
13. (optional) Collector limpet
14. (very optional) Extra tank!
15. (SUPER optional) Docking computer
16. (would be nice) Hull reinforcement
17. (would be nice) Module reinforcement

And that's not counting running into something neat, and being unequipped with recon or research limpets, which would be a neat thing to add as well, scattered around. Put in a dozen things scattered 20k-50k ly away from Sol in random places, see if people hit any of them.

You need for exploration (space/surface):
ADS, DSS, Fuel Scoop and a vehicle Hangar - that's it. Shields highly recommended.

Everything else is optional.

Nice to have is an AFMU for neutron star travel and a guardian booster. But that only makes you go faster.

 

[seko]

An Anaconda, with the new FSD boost, with a 75ly+ jump range, is more than adequate for expolation, can fit everything you need into internals, fast fuel scoop, 2xAFM's, SLF and SRV, repair limits, ADS, and discovery scanner, what more do you need ?

 

[Zieman]

An Anaconda, with the new FSD boost, with a 75ly+ jump range, is more than adequate for expolation, can fit everything you need into internals, fast fuel scoop, 2xAFM's, SLF and SRV, repair limits, ADS, and discovery scanner, what more do you need ?

Something that doesn't feel like a crippled oil tanker in supercruise.

 

[El_Hefe]

An Anaconda, with the new FSD boost, with a 75ly+ jump range, is more than adequate for expolation, can fit everything you need into internals, fast fuel scoop, 2xAFM's, SLF and SRV, repair limits, ADS, and discovery scanner, what more do you need ?

Seemingly the same thing but with the tag of "exolorer ship".

 

[Zelos1983]

Seemingly the same thing but with the tag of "exolorer ship".

couldn't we add an anaconda "dedicated explorer" decal to the shop and everybody would be happy?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
I keep reading these exploration ship proposals and can't help but think how they'd make killer stealth gank/pursuit vessels.
…

Oh, come on, no need to use such harsh words. Data runner or smuggling ship are much nicer words for what you wrote

 

[El_Hefe]

couldn't we add an anaconda "dedicated explorer" decal to the shop and everybody would be happy?

Perfect.

Then FDev can spend the dev time improving actual act of exploration,maybe even include a few thing to it that might actually require a specialised ship.

 

[Maymo]

I’d definitely like to see more exploration focused ships, more ships is always fun...

I don’t think the Asp or DBX would become redundant if a better jumper was introduced, they both have major perks outside of exploration that make them busy little ships.

I just hope it’s not Lakon that show yet another card, Zorgon have already proved they can make very capable jumpers with the Hauler and Adder, such cozy little cockpits.

There’s plenty of room for a couple of new Zorgon exploration ships, or better yet, a Zorgon/Saud colab like the FDL! The FDL is an incredibly focused combat ship....imagine if they poured the same energy into a focused explorer.

 

[Kaybe]

Yes indeed, the single highest parameter for an exploration ship is it's jump range. Everything is built around it. In the same way that the combat ships are built around large power distributors, military slots, and centerlined hardpoints. Sure, some of them are more agile than others, some have better shields or hull strength, but it's their ability to get as much firepower on target as possible in a short amount of time while minimizing the amount of damage taken in turn that makes a ship a combat ship *when compared to other ships in their price range.*

This last point is important as it's all relative. A combat ship, when compared to another in it's A-rated price range, will generally have an edge over a multipurpose ship. So why force explorers to use sometimes very pricy non-optimized multipurpose ships to fulfill a role a less expensive specialized ship can provide. No one needs Anaconda's class 8 power distributor, class 8 power plant, 8 weapon mounts, and 8 utility mounts to go exploring the center of the galaxy far from threats. We certainly don't need a ship that turns like a whale in supercruise to perform a task where you spend nearly the entire time in supercruise. At the same time, while the Asp is amazing, it's optionals are still fairly limited compared to a Python that can carry a bunch of limpet controllers and cargo racks for the ride to scoop up strange objects in space.

Explorers want dedicated exploration vessels, with pros and cons revolving around exploration at the cost of being poor in combat. Explorers already strip these ships of their combat potential. But it would be nice to have ships that are priced and designed more efficiently to fulfill those roles the way other specialized ships are. And that simply doesn't exist yet.

 

[EUS]

More ships? Yeah!
For explorers, SC agility a must. I simply cannot abide exploring in the conda, even though it has the best range, due to SC sluggishness.

 

[Stealthie]

That's nuts. This is what you need, in order of priority for exploring.

1. Scoop, obviously
2. ADS, obviously
3. DSS, for more exploration data but I've seen explorers skip this nonetheless.
4. SRV, for synthesis materials gathering and scanning Thargoid/Guardian/Unknown surface installations.

FWIW, the real purpose of a DSS is that it allows you to establish the material composition of a planet or asteroid belt in order to obtain any mat's required (for synthesis or jumponium) during your travels.

You can explore without one, in the same way that you can explore without an ADS but it means you're pretty-much "flying blind".
I think most people just fit an ADS and DSS automatically, which means they often don't stop to think why they're doing it, or what functionality would be lost if they don't.

For me, the priorities for exploration are as follows:-

1) Fuel scoop (to get around).
2) ADS (to see where you're going).
2) DSS (to see what's there).
2) SRV (to get what's there).
2) Mining Laser (to get what's there).
3) Shield (to provide safety).
3) AFMU (to provide repairs).
4) Repair limpet controller (to provide additional repairs).
4) Cargo rack (to provide holding space for limpets).
5) Anything else.

Ships such as the Eagle and Sidey don't quite allow you to pack everything you need for priority 1/2 which means you have to make some really serious compromises (probably dumping the SRV and forcing you to rely on asteroids to gather mat's in space).
The DBX, with 6 slots, is the first contender that allows you to cover all the priority 1/2/3 stuff with no space for any priority 4 stuff.
The AspX, with 7 slots, is really no more useful than the DBX because 1 more slot doesn't allow you to fit a repair limpet controller and a cargo rack, both of which are required to cover priority 4 stuff.

In a nutshell, a ship needs 4 slots to be minimally competent for exploration, 6 slots to be adequate and 8 (or more) slots to be fully capable.

 

[Nadreck]

Perhaps we could try flipping this around, start with the Anconda, list its good and bad points, and figure out why everyone doesn't just use an Anaconda for all exploration?

GOOD
More unrestricted internals than any other ship.
Longer jumprange than any other ship.

BAD
Cost.
Poor cockpit visibility.
Handling (mainly in SC).
Landing in rough terrain.
General feeling that it shouldn't be so good at everything.

Interestingly, all of the Anaconda's main rivals for exploration are actually better at every single thing the Anaconda is bad at: they are all cheaper, have better cockpits, handle better, and can be landed more easily. The only reason the Anaconda is viable at all for exploration is because its two advantages are so very relevant. And while we should be a bit concerned about making the other exploration ships obsolete, we don't need to worry about the Anaconda. It's already an overpowered supership, and always will be.

We can avoid eclipsing the AspX (and the Anaconda) by making a ship with plenty of internals but a lower jumprange. Something like an Orca, but with unrestricted slots like this:

7 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1

That's more (but smaller) slots than the Conda, and it could also be given a bubble canopy and special landing gear for uneven terrain. But if its jumprange lags significantly behind the AspX/DBX,
it won't replace those ships.

Or we could just give it a high jumprange too, but a high cost, and let money be what keeps the AspX and DBX viable. And see the ExploraConda disappear.