Deleted member 110222
D
Jukelo puts things much more clearly than me.
Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'
- Thread starter DeathStroke
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Jukelo puts things much more clearly than me.
Did you actually read my post? It's actually the opposite argument I'm making here. Development decisions about whether or not to make space legs has nothing to do with gambling. It is a completely unrelated concept.
It is apparently the expansion that was supposed to improve Elite's core gameplay. That has not happened yet and we are already 6 months into the year so far. It's turning out exactly like Thargoids did where FD promised all sorts of new content for Thargoids and instead we got massively disappointed.
That might not be the "end" of development in the sense that they will still sell us cosmetics and similar DLC, but if this is what FD is giving us for Beyond it certainly marks the end of FD"s ability to deliver anything resembling high-quality content.
Yes, we've been told many things by FD which never materialized or were flat-out untrue.
We were also told that "We don't want to waste your time" by Sandro right after FD had literally wasted our time with a new Engineering grind.
We've also been told by Braben in a recent interview that "our expansions have been free".
We've been told many things by FD that bear no relation to the reality of the game we've playing. Simply because FD tells us something doesn't make it true. They have to actually produce content now, they have burned through their goodwill with the playerbase over the last 3.5 years by telling us about the game they intended to make and then giving us another, very different, and markedly inferior game.
I'm not actually "angry" about either of those things because my expectations are so low that FD can't really disappoint me any longer. That doesn't mean that I don't fully recognize that LEP owners were sold a product when they purchased the LEP that came with a very clear set of development expectations promised by FD. We have yet to see any progress made on features such as space legs and proper atmospheric landings on inhabited worlds and the existing paid content we received with Horizons was extremely sub-par and barely fulfilled their obligations for that expansion. I don't own an LEP myself so I can't exactly be personally upset about how the LEP has turned out but I can point out that it is a terrible and shameful business practice.
Why do you seem to think it has to be one or the other? Most MMOs and online games both maintain a high-quality base game and continually develop new paid content. Are you somehow suggesting that FD has to choose between these two options and doesn't have the revenue stream or resources to do both?
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DeathStroke
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That doesn't even make sense.
If you leave devs to their devices, nothing gets done, you need to keep kicking them in the pants, or they flounder. Duke nuke 'em forever and SC are great examples of under 'motivated' devs.
FD stopped doing seasons, which is/was the only 'premium' content they were doing. They've said they would put out more 'premium' content, but so far it's just lip service.
Season 2, Dec 2015.
Season 3, Dec 2016.
Season 4, Dec 2017.
Season 5, Dec 2018.
Season 6, Dec 2019.
Season 7, Dec 2020.
Season 8, Dec 2021.
Season 9, Dec 2022.
Season 10, Dec 2023.
Have they done that? No. Have they EVEN TRIED? NOPE. Delays are inevitable, and sometimes games fail, but there's no excuse for not even trying.
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Again, that decision only "benefitted" you because you chose not to do the prior Engineering grind to the level that many other players did. You are suggesting here that the best option when faced with a grind in Elite is to literally not play the game by not doing that grind. Think about that for a second. You are basically admitting that the vast majority of the grind-based progression systems the game relies on are not worth playing because they are literally not fun.
I take it you've never been griefed by anyone using the Engineering exploit in Open during Horizons? I started flying my Vulture and Type 7 around that time simply to reduce my rebuy costs because griefing was so common then.
If their goal was to make Engineering "easier and more predictable" they failed utterly by forcing players to re-roll prior mods who had already invested massive amounts of time into the prior system. If an improvement in the existing system was all they were really trying to achieve they should have offered players the option to convert their legacy mods to the upper end of the new G5 system. Not downgrade them to G4 and force those players to re-grind hundreds of G5 mats all over again. The amount of MEF I put into my overcharged multicannons was massive, literally hundreds and hundreds of mats. Now I'm supposed to do that all again because FD is deliberately choosing not to convert my prior mods properly into the new system?
That is literally adding insult to injury for players who put effort into the prior Engineering grind. You might not understand this because you basically opted out of doing that grind, but many players had a massive amount of work devalued by FD when Beyond launched.
Again, the fact that you chose not to do a grind and how have a much easier Engineering system to use doesn't mean FD hasn't intentionally disenfranchised players who put in that prior effort.
Considering that the Corvette is the best combat ship in the game and the Cutter is the best trading ship in the game, there is some large ship content there that you aren't enjoying in the meantime.
That's my point. The Engineer unlock requirements are a boring grind, the same as every other game activity. They aren't going to be unlocked just by playing the game, you need to actually take the time to do those specific requirements even if you don't enjoy them at all. My personal favourite here is probably Selene Jean's mining requirements. I avoided that one as long as I could but eventually outfitting a mining Anaconda to get it over with. It was not fun, at all, but it had to be done to unlock that particular Engineer.
Wouldn't you find space legs and atmospheric landings on inhabited worlds even more enjoyable then? Even in a rudimentary form they would add greatly to the immersion and self-directed "content" that players create for themselves in the game. Those new features are not going to happen unless there is enough pressure placed on Braben and FD to fulfil those development promises.
There have been some individuals who have even tried to claim that by taking 2 years to deliver Horizons means that we got "twice the content" we paid for with that Season.
I am not even kidding here. These forums are literally the only place where someone will try to tell you that taking twice as long to deliver an expansion as planned somehow adds "value" to it.
There were never such shedule promised or hinted lol
Also you got all wrong about motivations of devs and such verbal hyperbole really does not things move faster.
He's right though.
There were never such shedule promised or hinted lol
Also you got all wrong about motivations of devs and such verbal hyperbole really does not things move faster.
I don’t feel betrayed remotely and still play and enjoy the game and am an LEP owner. Next season is coming. Will it be payed? Will FD do the decent thing and provide some extra flair to those who have it if it’s not? I am curious.
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/seasons/
So... with Chieftain intro, the beginning of Beyond was ushered, according to FD. This content came for free. I’m fine with that, but... talk of compensating LEP in any way has not been publicised. They may be technically within their rights, but ethically they are beginning to lag behind, just a tad. What do I care though, I’m loving my Krait and I adore my Chieftain.
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In this day and age, buying food IS a gamble, but that’s another topic
If you buy something which the seller claims is food, but which doesn't have a list of ingredients on the packet, it IS your own fault.
Back on planet Earth, food retailers are legally obliged to put a list of ingredients, and quantities, on the packet and the consumer is entitled to expect those lists to be accurate and comprehensive.
No such standards apply to the investment market in general or video games in particular.
The closest food-related analogy would be, as Stigbob already said, paying £50 up-front for a restaurant's "dish of the day", only to find it's cheese on toast.
If you did that without seeking, or being given, any clarification of what you might receive, that too would be your own fault.
No it really isn't. When you make a purchase there is the legitimate expectation on both sides of that transaction that someone is not trying to cheat you.
What you are saying is like suggesting if I give someone counterfeit money to make a purchase, it's their fault for accepting it as payment. It's not my fault for handing them a counterfeit bill, after all, I never specifically told them it was money or that it had any particular value, did I? They just assumed that themselves, so it's really their own fault?
You do realize how ridiculous that claim is, right?
Completely wrong. There are advertising standards and consumer protection laws that apply to digital purchases and to the sale of many other goods. Food is not the only purchase that has customer protection laws associated with it.
The investment market is a completely separate issue which should never, ever, be confused with making a retail purchase. They literally couldn't be more different in terms of what someone is selling you in those two circumstances. Even in the case of investments, however, there are strict regulations and if you break those and try to cheat someone, there is the very real risk you will go to jail for fraud.
No, it's like the restaurant having a "Lifetime Menu Pass" where you can try each of the dishes on their menu, with the expectation that it would change every year so you are getting at least some "new" content. Then instead the second menu takes two years to develop and it's markedly sub-par. The third menu is "free" for everyone because of how low quality their food has been. In the meantime, when you bought the "Lifetime Menu Pass" they promised lobster and caviar would be on the menu in the future. You have yet to see either of those items and have zero indication that they are even planning on offering them.
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None of the LEP owners did that though. At any point.
If you open it to find a half portion of something other than what's in the ingredient list inside, you take it back and demand your money back from the supermarket.
That way, the supermarket gets to display some customer service and take it up with quality control to improve.
Of course, supermarkets are sometimes interesting, when you go late at night especially. They have lunatics wandering around in their pyjamas, swapping things on shelves and changing the labels, muttering about how things should seem, other than they are.
You should always tell those people they are right. Every single time.
That way when the lunatics take over, you get to eat...something. Maybe even anything.
I suppose you could say being an LEP owner means you'll never starve. But the hunger and the descent into lunacy will always be in the way of being a satisfying experience.
I think it's a great analogy which works across all lenses.
With a great choice to make at the end of it.
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You're talking about food now?
You guys have lost your damn minds.
Krait is pizza, Imperial Courier is a hotdog, Anaconda is a meatball sandwich. LEP discussions give me indigestion.
You guys have lost your damn minds.
Krait is pizza, Imperial Courier is a hotdog, Anaconda is a meatball sandwich. LEP discussions give me indigestion.
Or we're just hungry.
A delicious slice of classic Italian pizza with prosciutto, cherry tomatoes and arugula, baked in a wood-burning oven.
What? It looks like a fighter jet. How did you turn it into a hot dog?
This I can sort of see, considering its shape and large cargo bay.
Pepto bismol is included with the LEP, but no ETAs, no guarantees on when it might be available.
Clearly it’s junkfood as everything is awfully salty.
Fortunately my blood pressure is awesome and I can eat all the sodium I want.
I think it's because Uncle Fluffy sets a disfunctional standard.
Nothing comes from nothing.
I agree, and that is why you don't buy into vague promises like season passes and LEPs and pre-orders which give them no incentive and no responsibility to finish a product they didn't, in fact, sell you, if you can't afford to see your money be wasted in case things don't go as expected.
Because, as we have been repeating for dozens of pages now, Frontier hasn't sold you a specific, 'finished' version of the game: they have sold you the game as it existed back when you made your purchase, and the promise that IF they were to further improve the game and make additions to it, you wouldn't have to pay for it. If you dispute that version, you'll have to dig up a direct quote from the store page of your LEP giving you a definite list of promised future updates and their time frame.
That is not a direct quote, you'll have to do better.
When Frontier first sold the LEP, seasons weren't even a thing. There was no definite plan regarding how they would push out expansions, and the seasonal model came way later. Your LEP will entitle you to all future expansions to the game, regardless of how Frontier decides to monetize them: seasons, piecemeal DLCs, full-blown expansions, it doesn't matter you are entitled to it if it comes out.
And if you are worried that it will never come out now that Frontier have millions in the bank, I have to wonder how come you bought the LEP back when Frontier's financial situation was a lot more precarious with ED being their only source of revenue and the game was in a much worse shape than it is now. Really, calm your horses, your LEP is not tied to seasons.
Frontier dropped the seasonal model because they have figured out it wont work in the long run. They probably know we aren't fully stupid and have realized that buying in early at full price means getting a shallow mess with half the features, when we could just wait a year or two and get the mature product for half the initial price or even less. They didn't drop seasons because there will be no more expansions. If Frontier didn't plan to further develop the game (and monetize those expansions), there would be no Beyond. There probably wouldn't even be bug fixes.
Beyond is free because what they're doing in Beyond is impossible to monetize, being core improvements to existing features, and they are finally in a financial situation where they can afford it. It's also good PR because for 3 years now they have been asked to slow down and fix the core game before pushing yet more half-baked features that just add to their technical debt. And chances are, the reason they are specifically going back to improving exploration and mining, is because they have a planned expansion relying on those features being in a decent state.
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