End Game

[Commander Kralen]

Please - I'm not bashing those mechanics - they work well in games designed for them, but base building, territorial claims, industry - none of them are what Elite is about.

Building a base? What purpose does that serve? How would you implement it?

Claiming territory? What purpose does that serve? How would you implement it?

Industry? That is already present - your industry is gaining credits, either by trade or otherwise. How would you change it, and what purpose would it serve?

Well, Elite was originally a single player game. So technically none of the multiplayer aspects of ED is "what Elite is all about" based on prior versions... And let's face it. The prior incarnations of Elite were absolutely remarkable for their time. But the genre has moved on in some ways. Just look at the X games.

And just to be clear, my concern is that Frontier's development team is not going to have the manpower to generate the amount of "injected" content that would be required to keep the game viable.

So, "base building" could encompass a number of different ideas. The simplest is essentially as a "housing" system. Most MMO players seem to really like housing. I love the idea of being able to create my own asteroid base (or planetary base when that's available) that could be personalized.

On a more sophisticated level, you have guild/corp "housing".

Territorial claims could be implemented any number of ways. And they would set up the possibility of player driven conflicts.

(Actually the biggest "implementation" problem is how you square public vs private gaming. If I build a station in my private game (or the public game) does it appear in your private game?)

"your industry is gaining credits" - okay. But to what end? Credits seem to come pretty easily. Even if profit margins are suppressed from beta levels, it won't be long before players have sufficient funds to essentially buy anything they might possibly want. At that point, credits cease to be a valid incentive to do anything.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

I can see why when that poem was written and to a large extent currently, portents of doom gain traction in the popular consciousness. I however firmly believe that faced with the geological record, in order to survive extinction man has to think about getting its eggs out of one basket.

To this end and if I had design authority (which of course I don't) I would implement the kind of mechanics that would make the overriding or background goal or aim if you like to colonise space from the starting position of 100,000 or so populated star systems. There's certainly enough room for that type of mechanic and players actions whilst not allowing territory conquest could catalyse the settlement and evolution of planets via terraforming etc.

The huge logistics chain (with it associated risks and adventures) that would be involved in settling and terraforming planets could keep players amused for years, along with say alien bug hunts, political machinations between factions etc. (think Ridley Scott's Alien meets Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars (Kim Stanley Robinson for those who have not read them)). Coding that could be challenging, but I don't think impossible once the core landing on planets and EVA stuff is in.

 

[Rhaedas]

Of course there's an end game. You kill all the Thargoid drones, you find the Thargoid queen, and destroy her and her hive. Then you get a credit screen with David Braben waving at you, and you're given the option to replay the game again only without shields.


Don't tell me it is not so!

As in...you kill the Queen, and then get a simple text message, "This room is an illusion and is a trap desisvt by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!"

Yes, you have to play it twice. Just don't get the knife.

Ghost and Goblins reference, btw, although there's probably plenty in this game's demographics who experienced that in their early gaming years.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Thank you for telling us all what ED is about. We were wondering.

Elite is all about what you as an individual Commander decide what it's all about.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Asp Explorer]

So, "base building" could encompass a number of different ideas. The simplest is essentially as a "housing" system. Most MMO players seem to really like housing. I love the idea of being able to create my own asteroid base (or planetary base when that's available) that could be personalized.

On a more sophisticated level, you have guild/corp "housing".

There are no guilds. Why would you need a house? What would you do with it? What benefit is there in having one? FD have mentioned the likelihood of being able to hollow out asteroids and using these as storage - I'll grant you that this could be basic housing. You'd live like a Rock Hermit, but that is a personal choice and I'm OK with that.

Territorial claims could be implemented any number of ways. And they would set up the possibility of player driven conflicts.

Please explain further how you envision this. What territory would you control, unless you build a house on an asteroid and go the Rock Hermit route. Maybe some other player really wants your rock - and you'll have to fight him off! I'll grant that sounds like a valid gameplay path.

(Actually the biggest "implementation" problem is how you square public vs private gaming. If I build a station in my private game (or the public game) does it appear in your private game?)

Yup - the instancing mechanic means that there is a fairly good chance your Home Rock Station doesn't exist to anyone else.

"your industry is gaining credits" - okay. But to what end? Credits seem to come pretty easily. Even if profit margins are suppressed from beta levels, it won't be long before players have sufficient funds to essentially buy anything they might possibly want. At that point, credits cease to be a valid incentive to do anything.

Credits are an enabler - not a reason. Unless your sole aim is to gather Credits, in which case that is also a perfectly valid gameplan. I am sure that Credits are only any good where Credits are accepted - out in the vastness of space there may well not be anywhere they can be used. Ever tried to use a Discover Card in Djibouti?

 

[Vingtetun]

Oh, I will agree that Byron was a depressing sod and more than a little bit "odd".

What reminded me though, wasn't the thought of a dying sun, a cold black earth or the mention of the Universe, but the viper in the middle of it.

As a result of my early exposure to this game, Viper always has Elite connotations whenever I see it written.

Back on topic for a second.... As long as they're prepared to run the servers and keep feeding content, I'm content to play. They day that those servers are switched off.... the day that the suns go out and the planets stop orbiting their stars. That's probably the end game.

Before that? Depends on my patience and enthusiasm.

 

[Vlodec]

There are no ...etc etc

Asp, do you understand that not everything lends itself readily to logical explanation? Nor does it necessarily need to.

In real life "I want this" is not normally sufficient reason to provide it. But games are different. A game, after all, is a fantasy substitute for something we lack in real life. So saying "this is what I want" is enough. You may not want it yourself, and of course this too is a factor, but the fact that the other guy does want it is enough explanation.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Asp, do you understand that not everything lends itself readily to logical explanation? Nor does it necessarily need to.

In real life "I want this" is not normally sufficient reason to provide it. But games are different. A game, after all, is a fantasy substitute for something we lack in real life. So saying "this is what what I want" is enough. You may not want it yourself, and of course this too is a factor, but the fact that the other guy does want it is enough explanation.

If what someone wants is available in-game then they have every right to go about achieving it in any way they think is possible. Nobody is going to say "Hey - you can't do X because we don't want you to!" but people are saying "Hey - you can't do X because there is no in-game mechanic to make it possible."

Everything is in flux - and X may well become possible later on. I just don't want people to think that certain mechanics are inevitable because they exist in game Y.

 

[Toumal]

As in...you kill the Queen, and then get a simple text message, "This room is an illusion and is a trap desisvt by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!"

Yes, you have to play it twice. Just don't get the knife.

"The princess is in another castle..."

 

[Fenris Wolf]

The poem references dark suns, frozen earth, vipers and the universe..... I felt it somehow appropriate for a discussion about "End Games". A little downbeat, but an exceptional poem.

Great poem and as you say, a perfect fit for this thread

 

[Alric]

Building some sort of structure would be nice because it gives you a connection with a certain piece of the universe. Mines and stashes will be a good start, but it would be nice to have some more personal touches, just like we can with our ships.

It's great to have this endless game universe with incredible procedural generation. But there's always that question of when does it all just start to blend in to one? You fly through another asteroid belt, over another world.. it's great but you'll never see that particular part of that particular world ever again. It has no particular meaning.

When you build something, even if it's something modest and with no gameplay importance, that place that it's in becomes meaningful to you. It adds a connection to the game world, makes it that little bit more real.

As for what the purpose would be? It could be a stash for smugglers to hide illicit cargo before having it transported to a destination. It could be a base camp for explorers to store supplies. It could be a small scale robotic factory producing simple supplies for frontier pilots in areas where goods are scarce. It could be a hiding place for refugees being smuggled out of hostile territory.

It could be all sorts of things. Or it could have no purpose at all except to make the galaxy a more interesting place.

 

[Vlodec]

Building some sort of structure would be nice because it gives you a connection with a certain piece of the universe. Mines and stashes will be a good start, but it would be nice to have some more personal touches, just like we can with our ships.

It's great to have this endless game universe with incredible procedural generation. But there's always that question of when does it all just start to blend in to one? You fly through another asteroid belt, over another world.. it's great but you'll never see that particular part of that particular world ever again. It has no particular meaning.

When you build something, even if it's something modest and with no gameplay importance, that place that it's in becomes meaningful to you. It adds a connection to the game world, makes it that little bit more real.

As for what the purpose would be? It could be a stash for smugglers to hide illicit cargo before having it transported to a destination. It could be a base camp for explorers to store supplies. It could be a small scale robotic factory producing simple supplies for frontier pilots in areas where goods are scarce. It could be a hiding place for refugees being smuggled out of hostile territory.

It could be all sorts of things. Or it could have no purpose at all except to make the galaxy a more interesting place.

Well put.

+1

 

[Commander Kralen]

Building some sort of structure would be nice because it gives you a connection with a certain piece of the universe. Mines and stashes will be a good start, but it would be nice to have some more personal touches, just like we can with our ships.

It's great to have this endless game universe with incredible procedural generation. But there's always that question of when does it all just start to blend in to one? You fly through another asteroid belt, over another world.. it's great but you'll never see that particular part of that particular world ever again. It has no particular meaning.

When you build something, even if it's something modest and with no gameplay importance, that place that it's in becomes meaningful to you. It adds a connection to the game world, makes it that little bit more real.

As for what the purpose would be? It could be a stash for smugglers to hide illicit cargo before having it transported to a destination. It could be a base camp for explorers to store supplies. It could be a small scale robotic factory producing simple supplies for frontier pilots in areas where goods are scarce. It could be a hiding place for refugees being smuggled out of hostile territory.

It could be all sorts of things. Or it could have no purpose at all except to make the galaxy a more interesting place.

This. +1

 

[JamesBondage]

end game?

WoW has been out for 10 years, whats their endgame? haha yeah there wont be one, but maybe there will be a way to sell credits to newbie players for cash monies using some 3rd party forum or some such.

 

[SlimExpert]

Well, I woke up this morning, and I got myself a beer,
The future's uncertain, and the end is always near!

You can only drink all day, if you start in the morning.

On a more serious note. I hope for a "all user mass event" every 2-3 months or so, whether this be alien invasion, humanitarian evacuation, Fed vs. Empire war, Supernovas or what ever.

My biggest concern, is being 1,500 LY out in the boonies, when the call comes through to get back to Sol for the evacuation! that would ruin my day - unless I have a couple of games going, one explorer and one "hanging around"

Slim

 

[Commander Kralen]

WoW has been out for 10 years, whats their endgame? haha yeah there wont be one, but maybe there will be a way to sell credits to newbie players for cash monies using some 3rd party forum or some such.

Wow's endgame, and that of most other mmo's on the market, is the additional material injected into the game by the developers in the form of expansions (with ever new levels of raiding etc.). That is certainly an option for Frontier, and it seems as if they intend to make use of it. But I assume Blizzard has a much larger development team devoted to adding content to their game than Frontier does/will have. This makes me concerned that Frontier aren't going to able to generate new content at a rate that is going to satisfy the player base. The nature of ED is such, however, that there are a number of sandbox systems that could be introduced into the game to leverage the players.

And I don't think they need to be PvP in nature. What about systems whereby we, as players, can stimulate NPC expansion to new starsystem? From some of the dev materials I've seen, it appears that something like this is intended. Imagine exploring a new system and building the initial infrastructure for a colony, and effort that you can help along. NPCs then move in and continue to grow and develop the colony. Perhaps as the colony's "founder" you could get perks trading with the colony.

 

[deMangler]

I think this is one of the reasons I will be playing Iron-man. The game challenge is to stay alive for as long a possible and become as ranked/as rich as possible before dying. That tends to be how I play sandbox games and how I played the original Elite. Otherwise it would have gotten boring eventually.
Eventually the main gameplay universe will be full of Elite Immortals who have done everything and are waiting for injected events... I personally don't see myself enjoying being an Elite immortal in a universe full of other Elite immortals much even if there are injected events.

 

[SlimExpert]

I think this is one of the reasons I will be playing Iron-man. The game challenge is to stay alive for as long a possible and become as ranked/as rich as possible before dying. That tends to be how I play sandbox games and how I played the original Elite. Otherwise it would have gotten boring eventually.
Eventually the main gameplay universe will be full of Elite Immortals who have done everything and are waiting for injected events... I personally don't see myself enjoying being an Elite immortal in a universe full of other Elite immortals much even if there are injected events.

I for sure hear where you are coming from, if everyone is Elite in a equipped to the eyeballs Uber Ship, life would become dull. I was hoping that the bigger ships would have some of reason not the fly them, like very limited hyperdrive, ideally, everyone would gravitate toward medium sized ships that were not that well equipped. but, even that would be the same I guess.

Obviously the incoming players (fingers crossed) and expansion packs should add a lot more depth. While having 400B stars sounds great, really no one will ever see even a small percentage, so, makes little sense really. Better to have a richer set of core systems, still a few thousand mind, I don't want to feel artificially hemmed in, but add a lot of depth to things going on.

Slim

 

[Vingtetun]

I'm hoping that even when wealthy, it is still possible through a string of bad luck or bad decisions to end up poorer than poor and having to scrape by.

If we are all squillionaires in a week as it is possible to be at the moment, somethng will have gone drastically wrong.

An Anaconda in 3 months of heavy play.... that feels about right. Lose it all on a rollof the dice a week later and build back up again.

Build a long term wanted status that just can't be bought off.

Try out new computer systems, spend a month or two hunting rare npc's across the milky way.

Trade down for a Viper and join a military campaign.

Get my Fer De Lance and ponce about in a silk shirt and clown trousers at the fringes of civilised space pretending to be a privateer.

Take the sidewinder out to some of the more beautiful systems and charge 4t of gold for a high res photo shoot.

Then. Thargoids.....

By that point, I will be able to take my Moray down to an ocean planet and explore the briny deep....

 

[Adam Lusardi]

Is that all........:smilie: