Not IF but WHY discussion around modes in the BGS

[GreyAreaUK]

and now we exchange PvP with PVE and we have that line standing too.

No, because Elite was always intended to be a PVE game. PVP is 100% optional.

The game was supposed to be offline

No, it wasn't.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Exactly, so you shouldnt get to fight over another person's objectives as a PVEer. You're not PVEing anymore are you?

Another person's objectives?
What's roleplaying got to do with BGS mechanics?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Promoting something doesn't mean giving them special treatment.

If we're asking random questions about other games:
Why can knights jump over other pieces, but queens can't?

Because there is a defining set of rules for each piece of play. Elite has no rules. I/We the people asking for this. Are asking for proper rules of engagement when it comes to adversarial multiplayer.

At least you can remove a piece from your opponent on the chessboard.

This defines winning and losing.

 

[MottiKhan]

OMG how many times do I have to say it. I AM AWARE IT DOESNT CAUSE LOCK DOWN <~ PLEASE READ THIS AND WRITE IT DOWN.

I am saying it can be paired with a lock down to halt the growth of that player faction in a system. They cannot run missions to drive the influence back up. While the person is killing ships to drive their influence DOWN.

Good god these forums.

Not really. Both are easily countered. I've said that a number of times as have others.

Being a hammer must be frustrating in a room full of springs.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Being a hammer must be frustrating in a room full of springs.

I'd rep you again if I could

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Not really. Both are easily countered. I've said that a number of times as have others.

Being a hammer must be frustrating in a room full of springs.

And you should have the chance to stop those actions. If you cannot then you grind.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And you should have the chance to stop those actions.

That sounds like a different game - one where PvP was not optional.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The BGS is PvE driven - and all players affect it.

Whether PvE players should, or should not, affect the BGS is a matter of opinion - and Frontier seem to be of the opinion that they should, as they designed the game that way and, even during the Powerplay investigation, were clear that *only* Powerplay was being considered for Open Only.

SO is powerplay PVE driven. By the players. Just like Player groups affecting one another. This is no longer the PVE part of the game. Even though there are PVE aspects, they are being used to affect other groups of people.

So its not purely PVE anymore.

That sounds like a different game - one where PvP was not optional.

What this game will end up being. If you want to affect another group of players.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Because there is a defining set of rules for each piece of play. Elite has no rules. I/We the people asking for this. Are asking for proper rules of engagement when it comes to adversarial multiplayer.

At least you can remove a piece from your opponent on the chessboard.

This defines winning and losing.

ED has plenty of rules.

I'm sorry I mischaracterized your argument earlier.
It isn't simply

"I want to shoot you"

It's actually

"I want to shoot you and I want special treatment"

My apologies.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

What this game will end up being. If you want to affect another group of players.

I think that may well be wish-fulfillment on your part.

Again.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Just make powerplay open only, mode lock anyone who has noteriety to whichever mode they obtained it in, and mode lock anyone with merit vouchers into open.


Problem fookin solved.

 

[Robert Maynard]

SO is powerplay PVE driven. By the players. Just like Player groups affecting one another. This is no longer the PVE part of the game. Even though there are PVE aspects, they are being used to affect other groups of people.

So its not purely PVE anymore.

Not purely PvE, no - however neither requires PvP so, at best, they are indirectly competitive (indirectly because they do not require players to encounter each other to be in competition).

The beauty of that design is that players that don't enjoy PvP can engage in the feature while players that do enjoy PvP can encounter each other in one of the multi-player modes - plus the fact that players on different platforms can take part.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

SO is powerplay PVE driven. By the players. Just like Player groups affecting one another. This is no longer the PVE part of the game. Even though there are PVE aspects, they are being used to affect other groups of people.

So its not purely PVE anymore.



What this game will end up being. If you want to affect another group of players.

Sounds like to me you want the BGS to become PP mk2 and make it open only.

I will ask again, if powerplay goes open only, why not play that instead. It will be a much better PvP environment as killing or attacking other players actively helps your own power, unlike the BGS and PMF play.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Not purely PvE, no - however neither requires PvP so, at best, they are indirectly competitive (indirectly because they do not require players to encounter each other to be in competition).

The beauty of that design is that players that don't enjoy PvP can engage in the feature while players that do enjoy PvP can encounter each other in one of the multi-player modes.

Its all PVP. Just because youre not getting shot at doesnt mean you are not PVPING.

And people should be able to use PVP as an act of defense here. They cant because the game heavily favors the person or group in private and solo doing the attacking.

Sounds like to me you want the BGS to become PP mk2 and make it open only.

I will ask again, if powerplay goes open only, why not play that instead. It will be a much better PvP environment as killing or attacking other players actively helps your own power, unlike the BGS and PMF play.

I probably will if player factions get crapped on here. Which is really unfortunate. Since Fdev are pushing this style of play with player factions.

Its in the mechanics, placements of player factions, modules, influence rate changes. All sorts of things.

Expect big changes to come with it, especially with how 1 click transactions are and how imbalanced it is for group gameplay.

Remember the BGS was created as a single player co-op part of this game. If they are going to allow people to affect one another using that framework. They must change that framework to support it.

Thats why powerplay was made the way it was.

You want to blame people for all this. Blame Fdev, they are creating the situations that calls for these balance changes. Dont think they arent aware of making them. Just like they did with powerplay.

I told you guys years ago it would happen there. And I am telling you guys now. Its gonna happen because its players affecting other players.

No one can defend themselves properly here.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Its all PVP. Just because youre not getting shot at doesnt mean you are not PVPING.

Well, there you go then. You've just admitted that PVP (by your definition of it) is multi-mode.

Sorted.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its all PVP. Just because youre not getting shot at doesnt mean you are not PVPING.

And people should be able to use PVP as an act of defense here. They cant because the game heavily favors the person or group in private and solo doing the attacking.

I don't buy the "it's all PvP so you should do all of it or none of it" stance.

People can use PvP in defence - if the attacker chooses to attack in Open, at a time when defenders are present, in the same instance and on the same platform. It's not a requirement of any attacker to do attack in Open though.

 

[Theodrid]

LMAO

90's, all this 'I/we can't defend ourselves' spiel is ridiculous, it's like you are loosing 173 frames to zip on the snooker table, keep trying, (and failing), to punch your opponent but refuse to do the one thing that will help, pick up your bloody snooker cue you numpty!

 

[MottiKhan]

And you should have the chance to stop those actions. If you cannot then you grind.

That depends on what you mean by "grind".

Grinding is doing something repetitively and is in general, a boring activity.

I'll give you an example of this. Sitting and hiding in normal space with multiple wings while a non-winged member tries to bait your opponent. Even when the opponent falls for the trap, they see an instance with 11 or so ships and high wake.

How about getting the call to assist a group member and dropping what you're doing, only to arrive at an empty system? This has happened more times than I can count. Waste of time.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Its all PVP. Just because youre not getting shot at doesnt mean you are not PVPING.

And people should be able to use PVP as an act of defense here. They cant because the game heavily favors the person or group in private and solo doing the attacking.

Then it's PvP for everyone no matter what mode they are in. All sorted then.

I probably will if player factions get crapped on here. Which is really unfortunate. Since Fdev are pushing this style of play with player factions.

No they are not. You see what you want to see it seems.

 

[Jane Turner]

OMG how many times do I have to say it. I AM AWARE IT DOESNT CAUSE LOCK DOWN <~ PLEASE READ THIS AND WRITE IT DOWN.

I am saying it can be paired with a lock down to halt the growth of that player faction in a system. They cannot run missions to drive the influence back up. While the person is killing ships to drive their influence DOWN.

Good god these forums.

I really not in our interest be disabusing you (and any murder monkeys or wannabe UA bombing terrorists) of this view, but both lockdown and UA bombing are desirable state/condition respectively if you are defending. It remains simle to raise influence if that is what you want. I does however dramatically reduce the ability of people to undermine the controlling faction.