Honest question for pirates everywhere

[Bolthammer]

People are so nice.

If you fly with your autopilot on and interfere or block my entrance to a station i wuld proably try find a way for you to fly into me and die or find a way to get your rating to drop (if it matters) or see if i culd get station security to do you. You wuld offcourse evade this by beeing active and makeing room for another player.


If you any way directly/indirectly cause dammage to my ship (or blow it up) and not respond accordingly to my hails or is afk (a simple sorry wuld do) i wuld probably hunt you down not careing much about my ratings. Even if i wuld play a simple trader.

Because it is a game my "beeing nice-hat" is much smaller than IRL. I dont feel ackward or think about others enjoyment of the game unless we ofcourse play together. Im not playing this game to make everyone have a good time. Im playing the game to make me and friends have a good time. I expect nothing more from others. Hence I accept beeing blown up by pirates or hunted to death by players who dislike me for ingame actions.

I will happily admit having spent hours hunting unknown teammates in Planetside 2 for running me over without saying sorry ...

 

[KickahasTier]

We all play to have fun. Piracy adds excitement to trading, but ideally it won't ruin someone's day. Personally I would not want to do that to someone.

Therein lies the problem. No one is going to play intending to be pirated because it's fun ; No amount of rationalising supersedes the fundamental predator victim relationship.

You are correct to be concerned that there will be no repeat custom, because a game based around this pVp mechanic will and should fail.

Now if the death penalty did not cause complete loss of cargo and catastrophic setback in progress. Traders would then be able to take risks, and be able to tolerate getting pirated occasionally.

Your solution of cultivating the population of traders by not killing them is an insipid and evil birth child of a horribly designed pVp mechanic.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

I'm not trying to grief anyone, but pirates don't ask permission before they take your stuff.

Yes they did... they displayed their flag and proceeded to lay down some cannon fire wide of the mark as a warning.

The 'victim' had a choice...
- lower their sails and come about
- fight
- or flee.

 

[philux]

Therein lies the problem. No one is going to play intending to be pirated because it's fun ; No amount of rationalising supersedes the fundamental predator victim relationship.

You are correct to be concerned that there will be no repeat custom, because a game based around this pVp mechanic will and should fail.

Now if the death penalty did not cause complete loss of cargo and catastrophic setback in progress. Traders would then be able to take risks, and be able to tolerate getting pirated occasionally.

Your solution of cultivating the population of traders by not killing them is an insipid and evil birth child of a horribly designed pVp mechanic.

Just a little reminder. One of the core aspects of this game is space combat; hence, ppl will shoot at you unprovoked all the time. There is nothing evil or sinister about it, they are playing the game as intended.

 

[Zenicetus]

Just a little reminder. One of the core aspects of this game is space combat; hence, ppl will shoot at you unprovoked all the time. There is nothing evil or sinister about it, they are playing the game as intended.

Yes, but that statement considered alone, doesn't account for the asymmetries built into the current game.

Pirates are allowed to buy the most powerful combat ships in the game. Traders, explorers, miners, and smugglers will be using ships that aren't 100% optimized for combat. That's an asymmetrical relationship, because the game doesn't currently include things like drones, AI wingmen, better turrets, or the equivalent of the British Navy to call down on the pirates' heads as an offsetting advantage. It's a pirate and PK'er playground right now.

Maybe when more of the defensive (and retaliatory) measures are in place, it will feel a bit less like volunteering to be the rabbit for someone else's fun.

BTW, I have absolutely nothing against the need for self-protection in a Dangerous galaxy, no matter what role one plays in this game. As an explorer or small-ship smuggler, I plan to be reasonably well-armed when I go out into the Unknown. But playing any role other than pure military, pirate, or bounty hunter will always involve compromises, and the ships we use will never be 100% combat optimized like a pirate ship. That's a problem (IMO) that has to be dealt with somehow, or pirates will find themselves deprived of "willing" prey other than NPC ships.

 

[Cosmos]

I've been tinkering with pirating to see how people respond and have done so as a lone wolf. After much pondering I've decided to stop bothering folk in sidewinders as a general rule of thumb; they are presumably just getting started and aren't likely to have much to steal anyway.

So I have a voice attack command that I utter - and it sends them a stand and deliver msg... largely because by the time I would have typed it in they are gone. Even with a message the vast majority of people just run for it, and some get away (when I give them some time to drop cargo or issue another pirate message) and most seem to prefer destruction to dropping something.

Generally, I think 'Traders' have had it all a bit too easy in terms of generating wealth with little effort and at the moment the only thing that comes between them and a successful trade are players. Any NPC deterrent of engagement is just bypassed.

I've heard lots of people suggest we should scan before pirating but its really rather difficult to do (scan range is too low and takes too long) and by which time they have jumped. So until that changes, I'll start firing first, give them a chance to drop some cargo, cease hostilities if they do, but destroy them if they don't comply.

Its not really possible as it stands to shoot out someones cargo hatch either and when it comes to the game proper I'm not sure how viable pirating is going to be. We've seen much drama with station camping but in all honesty its been the only way so far anyone can attempt to do any pirating.

EDIT: I remain a bit concerned with the general consensus that people should be enjoying things. I suppose what is enjoyable is a point of view but when I did some trading in a Type 6 I was bored out of my mind because it posed no challenge and nor was there any risk. Do people who've traded their way to an Anaconda really feel a sense of accomplishment so far other than having grinded the game to death to do so>? Because from what I can see all it took was gritting ones teeth to repetitively buy and sell. Its precisely this type of play that will result in people creating bots for the game.

 

[Executive]

Yes they did... they displayed their flag and proceeded to lay down some cannon fire wide of the mark as a warning.

The 'victim' had a choice...
- lower their sails and come about
- fight
- or flee.

Thanks for making that clear!
I'm afraid it's all for naught though, when we talk people like JughedJones who kill cause they can and justify their actions with wrong information...

It is a shame, but some people really just play games to urinate in someone else's cornflakes.

 

[Crystles]

Thanks for making that clear!
I'm afraid it's all for naught though, when we talk people like JughedJones who kill cause they can and justify their actions with wrong information...

It is a shame, but some people really just play games to urinate in someone else's cornflakes.

That happens everywhere, even IRL. Its up to the game devs to handle it in an appropriate way, or otherwise let it run rampant.

For example, people who like to rack up bounties for the "badass factor" will find themselves seriously screwed when they do die, as a portion (or maybe all) of the bounty will come out of their own wallets as a "fine".

I'm looking forward to how they balance professions. Pirates will get bounties eventually anyway, and the potential profit of the endevour HAS to out weigh the loss and be balanced with the inherent risk. Its one reason why I think the way trading is currently implemented is dumb (you can rake in millions at little-no risk just by playing solo, the AI's right now just arnt smart enough to do much about it...)

 

[Cosmos]

It is a shame, but some people really just play games to urinate in someone else's cornflakes.

Or perhaps someone else's faceroll.. /shrug

 

[Executive]

Or perhaps someone else's faceroll.. /shrug

Pardon?

 

[Cosmos]

Pardon?

Trading is presently a face-roll activity that allows players to accumulate wealth on a treadmill basis.

 

[Zvanya]

Pirates in the 17th and 18th Centuries never had access to the most powerful military ships, like they do in this game. Those ships could only be used by navies.

We players have access to the most powerful military ships? The same class of ships used by the navies? WOOT! Ima get me one of those dreadnoughts!

 

[Executive]

Trading is presently a face-roll activity that allows players to accumulate wealth on a treadmill basis.

Yes, I know.
My point was the difference of "nice" pirates and "bumhole" pirates though.
While I am totally fine with more risks during trading (never ever something happened to me tbh), I do not need to encounter players who might blow me up after I dropped my cargo for them.

Piracy is fine. Being a dork is not.

 

[Zenicetus]

Trading is presently a face-roll activity that allows players to accumulate wealth on a treadmill basis.

What do you think mining is going to be like, when that appears in the game? Miners aren't going to love being attacked by pirates while they're drilling asteroids, any more than traders enjoy being killed when they don't do what self-proclaimed pirates want them to do.*

I know you found trading incredibly boring (I do too, for what it's worth), but we don't get to determine what other people consider fun. The design documents indicate that all roles will be viable and fun, not just piracy.

*On the other hand, if mining is done with a really big plasma beam....

 

[Zenicetus]

We players have access to the most powerful military ships? The same class of ships used by the navies? WOOT! Ima get me one of those dreadnoughts!

C'mon, you know what I mean. The most powerful ships we can actually fly.

 

[Cosmos]

Yes, I know.
My point was the difference of "nice" pirates and "bumhole" pirates though.
While I am totally fine with more risks during trading (never ever something happened to me tbh), I do not need to encounter players who might blow me up after I dropped my cargo for them.

Piracy is fine. Being a dork is not.

I dunno man.. Strikes me as carebear style of play. Nothing to lose, bad guys are gentleman, and we all get come home to get tucked up in bed safe and sound.

Does that really pose anything interesting? Any real challenge to overcome?

Personally I think the friendly piracy is born from a dream-world of having everything nice and safe. No doubt there is a game world out there for that but it doesn't interest me in the slightest. When I am trading goods to dodgy places I want there to be a real risk of losing it all.. I want the need to have friends fly with me.. Tree hugging a pirate makes the game all too boring and reliable. Click buttons, treadmil, Elite.. and its worth nothing.

Without that the game becomes a faceroll. I'll go play My lil pony if I want that experience. /shrug

Pretty tired of arguing for a game with emergent adult depth.. I've never been reassured by a treadmil themepark game that offers reward for repetitive actions and makes us all feel we are special snowflakes.

Despite all the time and effort I've put into ED, having waited for it so so long, if it turns out like a baby game then I'll be off..

Maybe I'll take up Mike Evans on his point and write a decent space game myself. Time will tell. Its been nearly two years and we haven't actually seen much game for that so far. So I'm looking forward to seeing how things work out as they fill out the game and create a content and a compelling gaming experience for us all.

 

[Zvanya]

I do not need to encounter players who might blow me up after I dropped my cargo for them.

Piracy is fine. Being a dork is not.

No problem play in solo, or put everyone who looks at you funny on ignore.

Expecting pirates to be nice and gentlemanly, and other players to all be considerate of each other, is not realistic. If you have contact with other players you will encounter some that will kill you for fun.

 

[Executive]

I dunno man.. Strikes me as carebear style of play. Nothing to lose, bad guys are gentleman, and we all get come home to get tucked up in bed safe and sound.

Does that really pose anything interesting? Any real challange to overcome?

Personally I think the friendly piracy is born from a dream-world of having everything nice and safe. No doubt there is a game world out there for that but it doesn't interest me in the slightest. When I am trading goods to dodgy places I want there to be a real risk of losing it all.. I want the need to have friends fly with me.. Tree hugging a pirate makes the game all too boring and reliable. Click buttons, treadmil, Elite.. and its worth nothing.

Without that the game becomes a faceroll. I'll go play My lil pony if I want that experience. /shrug

Pretty tired of arguing for a game with emergent adult depth.. I've never been reassured by a treadmil themepark game that offers reward for repetitive actions and makes us all feel we are special snowflakes.

Despite all the time and effort I've put into ED, having waited for it so so long, if it turns out like a baby game then I'll be off..

Maybe I'll take up Mike Evans on his point and write a decent space game myself. Time will tell. Its been nearly two years and we haven't actually seen much game for that so far.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
I certainly am on the same page when it comes to no-risk-auto-play, like you see in EVE with hours of AFK mining in high security zones and stuff like that.
Of course I want the game to be a challenge, although, ask 10 people for the definition of challenge and you'll get 11 answers.

Still, I think people should get rid of the typical internet-bully attitude where they screw someone up - just because they can. What's the point?

If a pirate stops me and demands my cargo, it would be quite a -move to kill me after I was compliant, don't you agree? Please mark this specific example, cause it is basically all I said/talked about.

If I try to make a run for it, I won't complain about losing my ship and cargo, or even my virtual life.

Also, trading right now is far from finished/balanced, same goes for the other professions.

No problem play in solo, or put everyone who looks at you funny on ignore.

Expecting pirates to be nice and gentlemanly, and other players to all be considerate of each other, and not be a dork who kills for fun, is not realistic.

No thanks.
I am fully aware about reality, I just wanted to sound my concerns that were born out of experience in other games and are far from unjustified. Never said to expect this would be realistic. People are people.

 

[Jenner]

Your solution of cultivating the population of traders by not killing them is an insipid and evil birth child of a horribly designed pVp mechanic.

Hardly *my* solution, lol.

Well if traders feel they're consistently getting the short end of the stick gameplay-wise (and not having fun) then we'll be back at the 'problem' of all the PC traders flocking to Solo mode.

At any rate, Braben has said repeatedly that he's intending player on player violence in Elite Dangerous to be discouraged through gameplay mechanics like the Pilot's Federation bounties, etc.

I don't know how it's all going to shake out, but I remain positive.

 

[Avago Earo]

I like the pirates. For get the reward on their heads. A good pirate is a dead pirate

Yeah me too. Just hanging around minding my own... soak up a few hits then on their six like a greyhound with teeth like a shark. Get a few credits and no criminal record. Hmm... Well they hit me first sir!