News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[Andreus]

• Replace flying time with gameplay: We want to reduce the amount of time you have to spend flying to a planet just to discover it. The only time we want you to fly to a planet is because you want to visit it as there’s something there you want to see or do. Ultimately that will make exploring planetary bodies and getting first discoveries in a system quicker and more engaging at the same time.

You know how you could do this? By drastically shortening FSD travel times, and allowing us to hyperjump to other stars and gas giants in a system.

 

[-NEXUS-]

Toolset is a good thing. Why would I use it?

Hello worthy Frontier Developers. Please, I'd like a response to this. Many thanks.

The one thing that will engage me in playing exploration would not be a good basic set of tools that help me achieve it. Of course, the toolset is important and has been missing for a long while but the thing Eliteangerous Exploration needs is:

Something to explore that is not just more of the same stuff we see in human-inhabited space.

I want to find weird and wonderful things, dramatic and dangerous things, different and, most importantly, unique things.



Where is the incentive to go exploring?

 

[askavir]

You know how you can tell just by looking at the system map and an ADS whether any of the planets are worth exploring? Well, it sounds like this will work the same way, but with just a tiny bit of deduction involved. It's just instead of a system map it'll be the sensor readings. In time you'll recognize quickly which mix of signals are low value snowballs and which spikes mean an earthlike is somewhere in the system.

When I say a planet worth exploring, I don't exactly mean worthy in terms of credits, I don't really care for credits when exploring. When I say worthy I mean something like "a landable planet (of any kind) orbiting extremely close to a giant star", or 2 moons orbiting each other almost at touch range, or a landable moon orbiting close to one of those glowing gas giants, stuff like that.

While it will still absolutely be possible to find that stuff with the new mechanics, what I mean is that, after a while, I will probably start missing most of that stuff in the new system, because I don't thing that, after the novelty passes, I will be wanting to individually pinpoint every single body of every single system on my 10000ly route on the off chance I might encounter such a thing.
Right now its far easier not to miss these kind of things, because a quick glance at the system map hints at the presence of such unique locations. In the new system, I will most likely end up checking out far less planets than before, because after a while I most likely won't really feel like using the scanner to pinpoint every single body in every single system just on the off chance I might find these kind of "special" locations.

Anyway, I'll still give the benefit of the doubt until I see it in practice.

 

[Old Duck]

You know how you could do this? By drastically shortening FSD travel times, and allowing us to hyperjump to other stars and gas giants in a system.

There's already a game for that - it's called Space Engine.

Yep, I'm definitely turning into a white knight, because now I feel the need to set every single person straight. EagleBOT must have bit me while I was napping...

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Currently it takes me 67 jumps to get the the Gnosis. That takes 65 minutes if I scoop and honk. In the current system I can take a moment to see if there are any high Credit planets to scan after the honk. Scanning the water worlds and such gets me a fair amount of credit by the time I get to the Gnosis...with only about a 15% increase in travel time. I need to pay for sending modules to the Gnosis so the current system gives me a way to pay for that. It seems the new system will remove that incentive and make a decision to go to a "Gnosis" like event less appealing.

The current system also makes the 5000LY Paliin unlock a little profitable without being way way more time consuming. It's why I decided to do it. The New system looks to remove that incentive....unless one is willing to invest a much much greater amount of time and effort. Said another way....it seems the new system will remove the incentive to explore (too much of a ground) when just going from A to B and may even dissuade a few folks from going to some places.

Maybe keep the "Honk" and see all bodies still possible in some way

It's not an incentive, it's brainless.Your are not exploring whatsoever, you are looking for a quick buck to a destination! you dont get people that travel to point A and B to take pictures of the journey as a scientific research.

The same way that you dont need to venture 15k Ly away from any civilization to be able to explore.neither need a 40Ly jump range ship! people are too jaded by values in this game to see that they are PUTTING IN GAME PLAY, and removing GRIND ( first time ever BTW)

Yeah it will succ for those who want a quick buck and a brain dead option for making money during a journey...

But for the people who REALLY explore, this is their dream.

 

[Red Anders]

Why shouldn't I be selfish? Why shouldn't someone who has invested thousands of hours into a game believe that their experience is worth more than someone who has just scratched the surface?

Where do you want me to start?

It's based in a ludicrously inflated sense of self-worth, completely forgets that you were in exactly the same position once and presumably wouldn't have appreciated being told your opinion was of little value, imagines that there's something worthy of respect about having played a computer game for a while (honestly you're not curing cancer here mate, sense of perspective eh?) imagines that your feedback should be 'worth' more to the developer despite the fact that the only meaningful measure of our value to a company is the money we've spent to buy the game and most of all, because you could have expressed every single point you made about the mechanics without the need to say a single word about any other player, their opinions and what they find interesting in the game.

There's also the fact that FDev specifically said that they want feedback on the proposed changes, not feedback on your frankly worthless opinion of somebody else's feedback.

So in view of that last point I'll leave it there but believe me, I could quite cheerfully give you another few paragraphs were it not for that. Oh and before you start, I hit elite in exploration before the payout buff, have just under 3,000 hours in the game, my last trip out covered about 140,000 LY and if you're thinking about telling me how many millions of LY you've travelled, I'm sorry to say you can add that to the list of things I really don't give a crap about. Seriously, wind your neck in.

 

[Andreus]

There's already a game for that - it's called Space Engine.

Yep, I'm definitely turning into a white knight, because now I feel the need to set every single person straight. EagleBOT must have bit me while I was napping...

You're right about only one thing in this of a post: you are, indeed, white-knighting.

 

[Old Duck]

It's not an incentive, it's brainless.Your are not exploring whatsoever, you are looking for a quick buck to a destination! you dont get people that travel to point A and B to take pictures of the journey as a scientific research.

The same way that you dont need to venture 15k Ly away from any civilization to be able to explore.neither need a 40Ly jump range ship! people are too jaded by values in this game to see that they are PUTTING IN GAME PLAY, and removing GRIND ( first time ever BTW)

Yeah it will succ for those who want a quick buck and a brain dead option for making money during a journey...

But for the people who REALLY explore, this is their dream.

And as a good white knight, I am going to verbalize my support for every post I agree with. Well said, person I quote above, well said! +REP

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go see a doctor (though I suppose a mirror will do).

 

[Da Real Lazy]

The Discovery Scanner

Because explorers ply their trade far from civilized space, we’ve decided to not add new module requirements. Instead, we’re improving the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner so Commanders can jump right in as soon as the update is released, without having to spend time traveling back to a port to purchase new gear.

• Thank you for not making use go all the way back to a base just to get new equipment. It’s DAYS of travel, sometimes a week, just to get to a base just to find out they don’t have what you need.

When you activate the discovery scanner you will now be taken to an all-new scanning interface and view. In this augmented camera view you are able to interrogate the system using new functionality of the scanner.

• Does this replace the system screen?
• Is it a separate screen, a head look screen, part of the forward HUD?

The process still starts with the “honk” (system scan), though its usage is now the start of a more engaging process (if all you did before was scan for ” credits, don't worry, the scan still awards credits.)

• I’m really glad to hear this. About 15% of my exploration income comes from traveling from the bubble to an exploration zone and being able to “Honk and Go” does help the bottom line.

The system scan now returns an aggregated display of how energetic the electromagnetic emissions are in the system. Signals are sorted on a low to high scale by their apparent energy. For example, emissions from rocky clusters will appear at the lower end of the scale, hot gas giants at the upper range. This information requires some interpretation as signals can overlap.

• PLEASE MAKE ASTEROIDS WORTH SOMETHING!!! For god sake these are valuable mining resources and currently they get completely ignored. Someone at Frontier spent valuable time designing those rocks and explorers just ignore them because they are in our way and nothing more than an irritation. Please give them some value. They are not worthless.

You are able to tune the focus of your sensors to a particular point on the scale, making emissions from objects at this range much clearer, at the cost of filtering out signals returned from bodies not emitting at this range.
As you move the view around, you are aiming your discovery scanner sensors. To aid you, the discovery scanner view also features a repeating sweep of gravitational disturbance detected in the system. You can use this sweep to narrow your search for stellar bodies, as well as start your search around the star's orbital plane, which is revealed by the initial system scan.
Emissions that come close enough to your view’s focus are represented by signature patterns around a central reticule. If you are tuned to the correct point on the energy scale the signal will show as a symmetrical pattern clearly showing the direction towards the origin of the signal, allowing you to locate it. The further away your energy tuning, the more distorted and asymmetrical the pattern becomes, hiding the precise direction and location.
Once you have a candidate origin, you can use the scanner to reconstruct a massively zoomed in view. If you aimed precisely enough, you will discover the stellar body. If there are a number of stellar bodies in relative close proximity to your focus, you may need to repeat the process to isolate individual signals.
As you locate and identify stellar bodies their emissions are filtered out, instead becoming markers on the energy range, making it easier to find the remaining bodies. It's at this point in that you will gain the “first discovered” tag, rather than having to physically visit the planet (you still need to sell the data at a port to gain the tag). All current first discovered tags will remain.

• I really do like this part of the rework. It will slow those cherry picking “only scan Earthlikes, Waterworlds, and Habitable zones planets” knuckleheads down and they may even miss some valuable objects in their quest for “My Junk First on EVERYTHING” mission!!!
• If someone deletes their account, could you please also delete their First Discovery? OK, yah I know this isn’t going to happen and I really don’t have a good reason for it to happen. Just a cheap fantasy.

Importantly, when you uncover a planet using the discovery scanner, as well as being informed of the resources available on it, the presence of unusual locations, such as Guardian sites, will also be revealed. However, their precise location won’t be shown until you have mapped the planet with the detailed surface scanner.

• So, in terms of travel time to our targeted exploration area, we explorers face some the highest requirements. You’ve done a fantastic job helping us to get onsite fast with less risk of “Exploration Burnout”. Thank you for that.
• However, this new system, though I really do love it, poses a major risk of inflicting exploration burnout if when we get back from 72 hours of exploration to see a balance of 25,000,000cr for our Data.
• Now let's add the amount of time that we have to spend INSIDE the bubble, developing a functioning exploration vessel and the need to ply OTHER trades to get the ships we need. Trades that we have no interest in, but have to do because exploration pays poo.
• This new system IS going to reduce the cr/hour income rate. Just the process of scanning the system will take extra time. I’m not really ok with that. Add to this that Explorers face the second highest threshold for reaching Elite Rank, and now you are placing a gate for exploration that borders on stupid. And I have to say I really resent that. Please increase the value of the Planets we are working so hard to discover.
• Including Asteroids.

Unidentified Signal Sources

Along with the Exploration update, we are improving the way that USSs work. USSs will now spawn throughout the entire system when you first enter it. This enables you to use the new exploration tools to find USSs throughout the system, not just in the area around you. You can still interrogate nav beacons to find the locations.
Whilst USSs do still have a decay time, the timers have been increased to allow you time to find and fly to the ones you are interested in. The decay time is also now displayed when targeted. Signal sources still obey rules determining where they can appear within a system, and mission critical signal sources will still be highlighted to differentiate themselves once located.

• No comment.

The Detailed Surface Scanner and First Mapped By

Again, this module will not be replaced. Instead, the detailed surface scanner gains the ability to launch micro sensor probes in supercruise. You will use these probes to “map” a planet’s surface and locate resource hotspots in its rings.
These flight-assisted probes are launched via a new aiming interface when activating the detailed surface scanner. The probes will arc towards a planet’s surface and when close enough will “display” sensor coverage over a large area. Once enough of the surface has coverage, the probes will collate and report their findings. To map rings around a planet you need to hit each ring with a single probe.
To allow for skilled play you can aim probes away from the planet, allowing them to arc around it, potentially letting you hit the surface on far side of the planet. If you aim too far away, the probe will fly right past and miss, but by using mass and size information displayed on the HUD you will be able to lob probes and get full coverage without having to fly around the planet.
You will be able to synthesise micro-probes for the detailed surface scanner, but the better aim you are, the less probes you will need to get complete coverage.
When you do achieve this, any unusual locations will be revealed to your ship’s navigation systems. So no more eyeballing an entire planet to find those brain trees!
We are also adding a new opportunity to get your Commander's name immortalised in the game with the new 'First Mapped By' tag. The first person to successfully map a planet to 100% and sell the resulting data at a port, will be awarded this tag. This also applies for planets that have already got a 'First Discovered' tag as well.

• I’m commenting on these two sections together because they really are closely related.
• I really like the idea of sending out probes to do the work as well as a skill based system that gives us the personal challenge of doing it “just right”. o7
  [*]This more than the new ADS shows the real time cost in exploration and the need to increase the value of stellar bodies.
• As I said before, I really like the idea of the DSS having probes that you send out. This sounds like a really fun feature no matter how often i have to do it.
• Here’s the problem I see. If the ammo pack is only good for one system then I’m spending a crap ton of time looking for materials to restock it. I already have to do this with my SRV. Not really cool. Now if the ammo takes up cargo space? Cover your ears children, I’m going to use bad words. Go To Hell.
• I already HATE having to give up cargo/modul space to limpets. I need them to repair refuel fellow explored who end up in a bad place. And any Explorer who doesn’t carry at the least refuel fuel limpets is being a jerk. But the fact tht I am punished for my kindness? Welcome to China (Not racist, the laws in China punish people for helping other people. Look it up before you fly off the handle). It’s a joke and es me off to the point that I’m not willing to be reason about it. Get those damn limpets OUT of my cargo/modul space. NOW!!! And DO NOT FORCE ME TO CARRY AMMO PACKS FOR THE DSS!!!

Multi-Crew

As part of the exploration update, we are making sure that multi-crew members can use the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner at the same time and all discoveries are shared among crew or wing.
This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.

• Oh thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Overall, I like what I am seeing. I am very worried about the stated issues. But I like the work that you are doing. Please keep it up, but don’t make it harder on us. Forcing people into a real world simulator is not why I give you the money that you use to enjoy a comfortable life. Making this a Grinding game will not draw people to you. This will only detract from a quality game.

Oh and we need more then one SRV class.
And can we ge first discovery for Ground mapping Key Sites Such as Brain Trees, Guardian Sites, and Thargoid site. That would be cool.

 

[Jenner]

I'm all for slowing down the process of exploration, as it's way too fast and lacks much of a skill component now with the honk/jump/honk/jump. This new proposal seems like it address both of those issues.

Those who want to just honk the star and keep truckin' can still do that.

The attention on USSs and such are welcome, too. I'd love to see the variety of USSes expanded upon, though.

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

I like the proposed changes so far. I've been harsh on Frontier in the past, but more than happy to give credit where credit is due. I look forward to the beta to try out these new mechanics and see how practical it all is. I think this could add real atmosphere and a "movie" feel as you enter a new system with no idea what there is, then use your skills and scanners to bit by bit reveal what is out there. Love the first mapped feature too. Hopefully with this new system everyone will have a proper chance of finding those "mysterious things" that where mentioned on patch notes in the past. Will see how it will work once we get our hands on it, but on paper it actually looks really good. [yesnod]

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I think the reason that this implementation is being put forward, is to promote multiplayer exploration. Just like the GIB (Guy In Back), a two person crew is envisioned in this type of exploration. The pilot flies the ship, and fires the ADS, the backseat driver sorts through the electronic systems.

I hypothesize that they want the second player to be more involved.

How many of us truly have friends willing to explore, for extended lengths of time?

We used to use eyeballs, and parallax views to find objects. This is even more time consuming, for the solo, solo player.

Frontier has been trying to promote multiplayer for a long time. This allows two or more players to generate personal content, without Dev time. Also, they hope to draw in new players, and new commander accounts.

Please look at how Multi-Crew panned out when it was introduced.

If this is how exploration is to be, my DSS will go the way of my KWS, as a device gutted by new game mechanics.

Mengy has a thread about the disconnect between explorers, and how Frontier envisions exploration. The disconnect is about to become an abyss.

Make your money and first discoveries now, before this goes into effect. The First Mapped accomplishment is a way to make explorers grind again.

 

[Old Duck]

REDACTED (I'll quit while I'm ahead)

 

[Audaxxx]

This all looks really cool, so glad about the USS improvements and the POI's on planet surfaces being shown in the scan. Although it's not mentioned I really hope there's going to be improvements made to the navigation methods too. Having to manually fly to co-ordinates always seemed odd to me and have seen a lot of threads requesting some sort of marker that we can fly toward instead.

Also it's so nice to be getting some updates and decent communication as to what's happening. More like this please

 

[Six6VI]

Looks promising, but...

First question...

Are we finally going to be rewarded with something, anything for investing our time scanning belt clusters?


And, as a follow up...

Are they finally going to show up on the scanner while in supercruise (like the planets, stars and other navigation hazards we need to avoid crashing into) and the main HUD so they can be targeted and scanned without the need to look at the nav panel?

The FSD knows they're there, or our velocity wouldn't fluctuate as we pass through their gravity well. Luckily I've never hit one but they are still not depleted or eliminated by mining, and they continue to be a dangerous menace to the Pilot's Federation and insurance industry.

 

[Knightshark]

• Thank you for not making use go all the way back to a base just to get new equipment. It’s DAYS of travel, sometimes a week, just to get to a base just to find out they don’t have what you need.

• Does this replace the system screen?
• Is it a separate screen, a head look screen, part of the forward HUD?

• I’m really glad to hear this. About 15% of my exploration income comes from traveling from the bubble to an exploration zone and being able to “Honk and Go” does help the bottom line.

• PLEASE MAKE ASTEROIDS WORTH SOMETHING!!! For god sake these are valuable mining resources and currently they get completely ignored. Someone at Frontier spent valuable time designing those rocks and explorers just ignore them because they are in our way and nothing more than an irritation. Please give them some value. They are not worthless.

• I really do like this part of the rework. It will slow those cherry picking “only scan Earthlikes, Waterworlds, and Habitable zones planets” knuckleheads down and they may even miss some valuable objects in their quest for “My Junk First on EVERYTHING” mission!!!
• If someone deletes their account, could you please also delete their First Discovery? OK, yah I know this isn’t going to happen and I really don’t have a good reason for it to happen. Just a cheap fantasy.

• So, in terms of travel time to our targeted exploration area, we explorers face some the highest requirements. You’ve done a fantastic job helping us to get onsite fast with less risk of “Exploration Burnout”. Thank you for that.
• However, this new system, though I really do love it, poses a major risk of inflicting exploration burnout if when we get back from 72 hours of exploration to see a balance of 25,000,000cr for our Data.
• Now let's add the amount of time that we have to spend INSIDE the bubble, developing a functioning exploration vessel and the need to ply OTHER trades to get the ships we need. Trades that we have no interest in, but have to do because exploration pays poo.
• This new system IS going to reduce the cr/hour income rate. Just the process of scanning the system will take extra time. I’m not really ok with that. Add to this that Explorers face the second highest threshold for reaching Elite Rank, and now you are placing a gate for exploration that borders on stupid. And I have to say I really resent that. Please increase the value of the Planets we are working so hard to discover.
• Including Asteroids.

• No comment.

• I’m commenting on these two sections together because they really are closely related.
• I really like the idea of sending out probes to do the work as well as a skill based system that gives us the personal challenge of doing it “just right”. o7
  [*]This more than the new ADS shows the real time cost in exploration and the need to increase the value of stellar bodies.
• As I said before, I really like the idea of the DSS having probes that you send out. This sounds like a really fun feature no matter how often i have to do it.
• Here’s the problem I see. If the ammo pack is only good for one system then I’m spending a crap ton of time looking for materials to restock it. I already have to do this with my SRV. Not really cool. Now if the ammo takes up cargo space? Cover your ears children, I’m going to use bad words. Go To Hell.
• I already HATE having to give up cargo/modul space to limpets. I need them to repair refuel fellow explored who end up in a bad place. And any Explorer who doesn’t carry at the least refuel fuel limpets is being a jerk. But the fact tht I am punished for my kindness? Welcome to China (Not racist, the laws in China punish people for helping other people. Look it up before you fly off the handle). It’s a joke and es me off to the point that I’m not willing to be reason about it. Get those damn limpets OUT of my cargo/modul space. NOW!!! And DO NOT FORCE ME TO CARRY AMMO PACKS FOR THE DSS!!!

• Oh thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Overall, I like what I am seeing. I am very worried about the stated issues. But I like the work that you are doing. Please keep it up, but don’t make it harder on us. Forcing people into a real world simulator is not why I give you the money that you use to enjoy a comfortable life. Making this a Grinding game will not draw people to you. This will only detract from a quality game.

Oh and we need more then one SRV class.
And can we ge first discovery for Ground mapping Key Sites Such as Brain Trees, Guardian Sites, and Thargoid site. That would be cool.

Probe ammo will not take cargo space confirmed. Chill!

 

[Mako The Grey]

It's not an incentive, it's brainless.Your are not exploring whatsoever, you are looking for a quick buck to a destination! .

And there is nothing wrong with that. It's an incentive to make a long trip without greatly increasing time to get to an event. I don't want to "explore"...I just want to "pay" for the trip.

Why not add exploration without removing the Pay for the trip" incentive ??

 

[discoinmoscow]

Amazing change!

I never found exploration very exciting because of a rather repetitive "Jump - honk - fly to planet - scan" game play loop.
Flying across the system just to scan a planet was really dull with nothing to do for minutes at a time.

The new interface looks great, discovery mechanics sound very engaging and rewarding.

Can't wait to try out the new shinies.

 

[who?]

And there is nothing wrong with that. It's an incentive to make a long trip without greatly increasing time to get to an event. I don't want to "explore"...I just want to "pay" for the trip.

Why not add exploration without removing the Pay for the trip" incentive ??

They could boost the payout for scanning the arrival star, to help offset this change?

 

[UmbraRex]

It's not an incentive, it's brainless.Your are not exploring whatsoever, you are looking for a quick buck to a destination! you dont get people that travel to point A and B to take pictures of the journey as a scientific research.

The same way that you dont need to venture 15k Ly away from any civilization to be able to explore.neither need a 40Ly jump range ship! people are too jaded by values in this game to see that they are PUTTING IN GAME PLAY, and removing GRIND ( first time ever BTW)

Yeah it will succ for those who want a quick buck and a brain dead option for making money during a journey...

But for the people who REALLY explore, this is their dream.

removing grind?

Are you mad?

Now: honk, get exploration data (minor, but some)

New: Honk, get nothing until you basically DSS any hopefully worthwhile body in the system. Oh, and you have no idea (initially, there will be a learning curve) WHAT is even worth scanning.

Sounds like a grind increase to me.

And what really gets me is it actually decreases the functionality of current equipment.

Right now an ADS gets you a system map.

When this goes live?

The ADS gets you nothing. Until you spend time poking at it.

The more I think about this, the less I like it.