What I've learned about griefers/gankers across the board.

[jasonbarron]

Forum PvP, or the game?

Lolol. I think that I'll be able to stick with the forum PvP

 

[Freelancer Knux]

You lost the time you had invested in preparing for the mission, you lost credits, you lost faction rep that will take hours to build back up, and all for nothing but the whim of some idiot.

You wasted a lot of time for nothing when a griefer rams you on a landing pad or hits you from out of the blue with a huge missle for nothing but kicks, period.

If you aren't willing to risk those things then you should be in solo.

It is almost painful knowing the game has a mode people can use if they feel their time is truly that precious but don't use because of broken reasoning like "I want to see other players just to say O7" or "I won't let players tell me which mode to use".

Everything in life has a risk assessment and if you aren't willing to put yourself at risk you shouldn't do it, for instance by law I can have 2 beers and then ride my motorcycle legally but do I no because the risk is too high in my mind. Same applies in game "would it upset me if im killed doing this for zero reasons?" If the answer is yes then why the hell are you in open???

 

[Goose4291]

Yeah, let me stop you and your deep thoughts right there, big guy: ganking and destroying other players in ED is in no way shape or form comparable to the game of knock em out that you shared in that video: any comparison is despicable.

And yeah, you are too promoting the use of violence against players, by virtue of drawing the comparison to players of ED and the people caught in video in the first place and saying "that guy got what he deserved." That being shot twice by a forty caliber pistol.

So much this.

I genuinely wonder how many of those on the forums who equate computer game tomfoolery to real world violence have had the 'pleasure' of having someone lob rounds downrange at them.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

1) Congratulations on the move, Jason!

2) "Someone challenged me in a video game and are therefore bad people" will always, always, always be pure cringe. OP was no different.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Yeah, let me stop you and your deep thoughts right there, big guy: ganking and destroying other players in ED is in no way shape or form comparable to the game of knock em out that you shared in that video: any comparison is despicable.

And yeah, you are too promoting the use of violence against players, by virtue of drawing the comparison to players of ED and the people caught in video in the first place and saying "that guy got what he deserved." That being shot twice by a forty caliber pistol.

Going to have to counter with: You're incorrect.
What makes one comparable to the other is the thought process involved. There has to be some fundamental flaw in the thought process that makes someone say "This is an OK thing to do." or "This sounds like a good idea."

I'll skip pointing out the half a dozen fallacies in your efforts to mount any sort of argument, and for the sake of discussion, give you the opportunity to participate in the discussion itself, rather throwing fallacy after fallacy. And I will defend my position that being shot twice and surviving for attempting to knock someone out for no reason, or whatever flawed reason might have gone through the assailant's head, is not only justified, but deemed justified by law enforcement and a legal jury. You don't have to like it, but the law is what the law is. But this is not the subject for this discussion. If you'd like to debate things like Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine we can do that in private messages.

So much this.

I genuinely wonder how many of those on the forums who equate computer game tomfoolery to real world violence have had the 'pleasure' of having someone lob rounds downrange at them.

Desert Storm Veteran here. I know all too well what it means to be downrange of live rounds.

Let's talk about how many times the reverse parallels have been drawn - or worse, enacted, where video game violence has spawned real world violence.

Dare we look at a few?

On May 31, 2014, Waukesha, Wisconsin - Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser lured their friend Payton Leutner into the woods and stabbed her 19 times in an attempt to impress the fictional character Slender Man.


New Hyde Park, New York, on June 26, 2008, a group of teenagers went on a crime spree. First, three of them violently mugged a man in a grocery store parking lot. After that, the gang marched through the streets of New Hyde Park until they encountered a woman in her car. After stealing a pack of cigarettes from the woman, they proceeded to smash a van using one of the baseball bats they had brought to the crime scene.[1]The woman called the police, and the teens were apprehended. When asked about their motives, the teens stated that it was the video game Grand Theft Auto IV that led them to commit these crimes.


Devin Moore is an American murderer who is believed to have been inspired by the game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. On July 7, 2003, Moore was brought into an Alabama police station on suspicion of car theft. At the time, Moore had no criminal record, and he cooperated with the police. After being booked by officer Arnold Strickland, Moore jumped him, grabbing his gun and firing three shots, one hitting Strickland in the head.


Anders Breivik is the deadliest mass shooter in human history, claiming the lives of 69 young adults at a youth political camp in Norway on July 22, 2011, after killing another eight by bombing a government building, making the total death toll 77. [...]According to his Manifesto, Breivik was an avid player of the games World of Warcraft and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Breivik wrote that he played World of Warcraft for relaxation, while he used Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 as a training simulator [...]


After winning a renowned sword in the video game: Legend of Mir, two Chinese friends couldn’t agree on how to split the prize. After one of the fanatic gamers decided to sell the item and keep all the money for himself, his friend felt so betrayed that he snuck into the house of his fellow Mir player and stabbed him to death in his sleep.

Reprehensible in the extreme, but these are the acts of people who can only be deeply disturbed. The parallels cannot be ignored, especially when these people confess the sources of their inspirations.

 

[Bryan K]

Going to have to counter with: You're incorrect.
What makes one comparable to the other is the thought process involved. There has to be some fundamental flaw in the thought process that makes someone say "This is an OK thing to do." or "This sounds like a good idea."

I'll skip pointing out the half a dozen fallacies in your efforts to mount any sort of argument, and for the sake of discussion, give you the opportunity to participate in the discussion itself, rather throwing fallacy after fallacy. And I will defend my position that being shot twice and surviving for attempting to knock someone out for no reason, or whatever flawed reason might have gone through the assailant's head, is not only justified, but deemed justified by law enforcement and a legal jury. You don't have to like it, but the law is what the law is. But this is not the subject for this discussion. If you'd like to debate things like Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine we can do that in private messages.

Soooooooo much this. Well said.

 

[Karacetamol]

Thanks doctor, your professional assessment of my state of mind is greatly appreciated in yet another logical fallacy. But clearly we agree on the subject of self defense here, so there is that.

And no, that's not quite the comparison I'm making, just the conclusion you took a frame shift leap to - I am only comparing the Thought Processes, or trying to compare the thought processes. Are the same lines of thinking that go into assaulting a complete stranger in the real world any different from those of someone actively tormenting someone in a game? That's what I'm trying to determine.

Do you think that because I’m a pirate in-game, I’m gonna go and rob people on the street? Video games and the internet as a whole dramatically change how many people think. You can’t compare.

 

[jasonbarron]

Thanks doctor, your professional assessment of my state of mind is greatly appreciated in yet another logical fallacy. But clearly we agree on the subject of self defense here, so there is that.

And no, that's not quite the comparison I'm making, just the conclusion you took a frame shift leap to - I am only comparing the Thought Processes, or trying to compare the thought processes. Are the same lines of thinking that go into assaulting a complete stranger in the real world any different from those of someone actively tormenting someone in a game? That's what I'm trying to determine.

Nice to see you're walking that back, man. That's some pretty spooky stuff you're posting. Makes me wonder if I need to worry about me and my family getting swatted over night, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

I am not sticking my feet into the other debates going on here, but I would just like to point out that school hours in most places largely overlap with the regular working day. So not really sure who the OP refers to with "kids", but that could be anyone below retirement age.

 

[Bryan K]

Do you think that because I’m a pirate in-game, I’m gonna go and rob people on the street? Video games and the internet as a whole dramatically change how many people think. You can’t compare.

I tend to think that people are closer to their truest self on the internet, since there are no real inhibitions. You can be as mean as you want and get away with it. Such is the curse of internet anonymity. This is one of the reasons that, in many cases, PvP in ED becomes more of a form of cyber-bullying than legitimate gameplay.

 

[Goose4291]

PvP in ED becomes more of a form of cyber-bullying than legitimate gameplay.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Depending on exactly what microwave connection that happens to be - you may be mildly surprised at the actual throughput possible.

If you are truly in the middle of nowhere, and the link is relatively undersubscribed, you have a bit of network knowledge and an ISP that isn't a complete expletive, of course.

 

[Bryan K]

@Goose Thanks for illustrating pretty much every point I just made.

Also interesting using the Fox News strategy of cherry picking part of a statement because it would weaken your argument to quote the whole thing. Bravo.

 

[Karacetamol]

I tend to think that people are closer to their truest self on the internet, since there are no real inhibitions. You can be as mean as you want and get away with it. Such is the curse of internet anonymity. This is one of the reasons that, in many cases, PvP in ED becomes more of a form of cyber-bullying than legitimate gameplay.

dude, if I was closer to my truest self then my truest self is absolutely . But it’s not the case, and you can’t apply that as a blanket rule. People want to have fun, most just don’t care about the other side’s fun.

 

[Goose4291]

@Goose Thanks for illustrating pretty much every point I just made.

Also interesting using the Fox News strategy of cherry picking part of a statement because it would weaken your argument to quote the whole thing. Bravo.

To be honest, your entire post was a big ball of cringe, but that closing argument, well, that was the cherry on the top.

 

[Bryan K]

To be honest, your entire post was a big ball of cringe, but that closing argument, well, that was the cherry on the top.

Ladies and gentlemen, testament from one of the leading cyber-bullies on the forums. All you do is spew venom at anyone who says anything even slightly against PvP.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Do you think that because I’m a pirate in-game, I’m gonna go and rob people on the street? Video games and the internet as a whole dramatically change how many people think. You can’t compare.

You might not. Someone else might. Does it seem more likely a life-long thief might be more drawn to piracy in a game than a clergy-person, social worker, or doctor?

Nice to see you're walking that back, man. That's some pretty spooky stuff you're posting. Makes me wonder if I need to worry about me and my family getting swatted over night, to be perfectly honest.

I didn't really have to walk it back as much as reel it in. This is one of those very touchy subjects - and for the record, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that believes video games cause people to act violently any more than D&D made people "satanists". People are going to do what they are going to do. I just like to try to understand the mental processes that lead people to certain decisions. I minored in abnormal psychology, because it is fascinating to me.

Now that we've established neither of us are aspiring sociopaths, do you think we might be able to actually talk about what goes on in peoples' heads?

I'll even take point here - in game I play the part of a slightly jaded, politically apathetic, philanthropic pilot with an interest in xeno-archaeology. It suits my personality - I am a bit world-weary, see through far too many smokescreens of politics, and am generally one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. Those in my circle of friends know I would give any of them my last breath. I don't have much interest in archaeology, but I am still rather adventurous - one of the reasons I enjoy sailing (well, motor-yachting, but boat+water+go), spelunking and hiking. I use to enjoy hang-gliding and free-soloing, but I fear I've accumulated too much mass for those things any more. Nice guy in the analog world, nice guy in the digital world.

And I've tried my hands at less-than-nice activities, smuggling and piracy - as a smuggler I tend towards simple commodities - I bring the beer to dry systems. I figure if someone's willing to pay a stranger for it, they might as well pay someone who can keep their mouth shut and evade a scan. Piracy.. well, I rob criminals, and I've never had to fire anything more than limpets to do it. I wouldn't go about pirating other players because I don't appreciate NPC's trying to do it to me.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Going to have to counter with: You're incorrect.
What makes one comparable to the other is the thought process involved. There has to be some fundamental flaw in the thought process that makes someone say "This is an OK thing to do." or "This sounds like a good idea."

I'll skip pointing out the half a dozen fallacies in your efforts to mount any sort of argument, and for the sake of discussion, give you the opportunity to participate in the discussion itself, rather throwing fallacy after fallacy. And I will defend my position that being shot twice and surviving for attempting to knock someone out for no reason, or whatever flawed reason might have gone through the assailant's head, is not only justified, but deemed justified by law enforcement and a legal jury. You don't have to like it, but the law is what the law is. But this is not the subject for this discussion. If you'd like to debate things like Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine we can do that in private messages.



Desert Storm Veteran here. I know all too well what it means to be downrange of live rounds.

Let's talk about how many times the reverse parallels have been drawn - or worse, enacted, where video game violence has spawned real world violence.

Dare we look at a few?

On May 31, 2014, Waukesha, Wisconsin - Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser lured their friend Payton Leutner into the woods and stabbed her 19 times in an attempt to impress the fictional character Slender Man.


New Hyde Park, New York, on June 26, 2008, a group of teenagers went on a crime spree. First, three of them violently mugged a man in a grocery store parking lot. After that, the gang marched through the streets of New Hyde Park until they encountered a woman in her car. After stealing a pack of cigarettes from the woman, they proceeded to smash a van using one of the baseball bats they had brought to the crime scene.[1]The woman called the police, and the teens were apprehended. When asked about their motives, the teens stated that it was the video game Grand Theft Auto IV that led them to commit these crimes.


Devin Moore is an American murderer who is believed to have been inspired by the game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. On July 7, 2003, Moore was brought into an Alabama police station on suspicion of car theft. At the time, Moore had no criminal record, and he cooperated with the police. After being booked by officer Arnold Strickland, Moore jumped him, grabbing his gun and firing three shots, one hitting Strickland in the head.


Anders Breivik is the deadliest mass shooter in human history, claiming the lives of 69 young adults at a youth political camp in Norway on July 22, 2011, after killing another eight by bombing a government building, making the total death toll 77. [...]According to his Manifesto, Breivik was an avid player of the games World of Warcraft and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Breivik wrote that he played World of Warcraft for relaxation, while he used Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 as a training simulator [...]


After winning a renowned sword in the video game: Legend of Mir, two Chinese friends couldn’t agree on how to split the prize. After one of the fanatic gamers decided to sell the item and keep all the money for himself, his friend felt so betrayed that he snuck into the house of his fellow Mir player and stabbed him to death in his sleep.

Reprehensible in the extreme, but these are the acts of people who can only be deeply disturbed. The parallels cannot be ignored, especially when these people confess the sources of their inspirations.

LOL, you are irrational.

 

[jasonbarron]

You might not. Someone else might. Does it seem more likely a life-long thief might be more drawn to piracy in a game than a clergy-person, social worker, or doctor?



I didn't really have to walk it back as much as reel it in. This is one of those very touchy subjects - and for the record, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that believes video games cause people to act violently any more than D&D made people "satanists". People are going to do what they are going to do. I just like to try to understand the mental processes that lead people to certain decisions. I minored in abnormal psychology, because it is fascinating to me.

Now that we've established neither of us are aspiring sociopaths, do you think we might be able to actually talk about what goes on in peoples' heads?

I'll even take point here - in game I play the part of a slightly jaded, politically apathetic, philanthropic pilot with an interest in xeno-archaeology. It suits my personality - I am a bit world-weary, see through far too many smokescreens of politics, and am generally one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. Those in my circle of friends know I would give any of them my last breath. I don't have much interest in archaeology, but I am still rather adventurous - one of the reasons I enjoy sailing (well, motor-yachting, but boat+water+go), spelunking and hiking. I use to enjoy hang-gliding and free-soloing, but I fear I've accumulated too much mass for those things any more. Nice guy in the analog world, nice guy in the digital world.

And I've tried my hands at less-than-nice activities, smuggling and piracy - as a smuggler I tend towards simple commodities - I bring the beer to dry systems. I figure if someone's willing to pay a stranger for it, they might as well pay someone who can keep their mouth shut and evade a scan. Piracy.. well, I rob criminals, and I've never had to fire anything more than limpets to do it. I wouldn't go about pirating other players because I don't appreciate NPC's trying to do it to me.

No Indigo, I'm not going to enter into a discussion on equal terms with you, as if we're both reasonable adults having a thought provoking discussion. One of us is being rational and pointing out that griefing and ganking in ED can be a move, but it's still just a game, and not only that but a game that literally promotes these activities...and one of us is comparing griefers and gankers in ED with serial killers and mass murderers as if it's the most natural thing in the world to draw these comparisons.

You aren't sounding right in the noggin, man, and I'm glad that there is (hopefully) several thousand miles of Internet cable in between us. I think anyone who would draw these comparisons needs specialized help.

 

[Freelancer Knux]

You might not. Someone else might. Does it seem more likely a life-long thief might be more drawn to piracy in a game than a clergy-person, social worker, or doctor?



I didn't really have to walk it back as much as reel it in. This is one of those very touchy subjects - and for the record, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that believes video games cause people to act violently any more than D&D made people "satanists". People are going to do what they are going to do. I just like to try to understand the mental processes that lead people to certain decisions. I minored in abnormal psychology, because it is fascinating to me.

Now that we've established neither of us are aspiring sociopaths, do you think we might be able to actually talk about what goes on in peoples' heads?

I'll even take point here - in game I play the part of a slightly jaded, politically apathetic, philanthropic pilot with an interest in xeno-archaeology. It suits my personality - I am a bit world-weary, see through far too many smokescreens of politics, and am generally one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. Those in my circle of friends know I would give any of them my last breath. I don't have much interest in archaeology, but I am still rather adventurous - one of the reasons I enjoy sailing (well, motor-yachting, but boat+water+go), spelunking and hiking. I use to enjoy hang-gliding and free-soloing, but I fear I've accumulated too much mass for those things any more. Nice guy in the analog world, nice guy in the digital world.

And I've tried my hands at less-than-nice activities, smuggling and piracy - as a smuggler I tend towards simple commodities - I bring the beer to dry systems. I figure if someone's willing to pay a stranger for it, they might as well pay someone who can keep their mouth shut and evade a scan. Piracy.. well, I rob criminals, and I've never had to fire anything more than limpets to do it. I wouldn't go about pirating other players because I don't appreciate NPC's trying to do it to me.

Mate honestly how a person plays a video game has zero meaning to how they are IRL. If you play a character similar to yourself IRL that is your choice and can't be used as a benchmark to measure others. Video games are a way to let off steam and enjoy ones self, how a person chooses to act in a game in order to have fun doesn't relate at all to them being a sociopath.