Deleted member 110222
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I didn't say consoles are doomed. I just said PC's are higher quality. There's a difference.
I played Elite Dangerous on Xbox for the first time in twenty days...
I didn't say consoles are doomed. I just said PC's are higher quality. There's a difference.
What's got a GFX card to do with cost for MP connectivity?
Deleted member 110222
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See that's constructive feedback.
Now we have the basis for a genuine debate.
Now, let me explain my reasonings for that particular sentence.
As an enthusiast, I like having the option to tailor my experience to my very specific desires, and that simply isn't possible on console, as you have to have manufacturer permission to do anything.
If I want a joystick, I have to pray that Microsoft says yes. If I want a niche game, I have to pray that the small development team bothers with the red tape that blocks console publication.
I also don't like how mods' are handled on Xbox. Of the few games that support them, they're so restricted in what they may consist of that it's all a bit lame.
Finally, I detest how "backwards compatibility" is handled on Xbox. If I want to play an older game I have to beg, and then pay again anyway.
Overall, what's putting me off consoles is the utter lack of choice that PC has. I'm all for parity between platforms. That's what my beef is with.
Console players are no way treated with the same options as PC gamers, by the same company! I refer to Microsoft here, owning both Xbox/Windows.
I mean just one example. On Xbox you're only allowed to use one type of Joystick, "approved" by Microsoft, with no way of customising said joystick, yet the same company offers a whole dedicated control panel that supports basically anything you plug into your MoBo, when on PC.
Why can't Xbox users have that choice?
Alas, they never will allow such choice on consoles. That's why I'm now confident that I'll never buy a console again.
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Interesting. Here in Europe I spent less on all three consoles I own than on a single mid range gaming PC. Ironically my 800€-PC is completely outdated now (it barely runs Elite Dangerous), while my €200 console still gets new games (which more look gorgeous with each year passing, despite no hardware upgrades). I was looking into consoles for the first time after seeing my PC become obsolete without many notable releases. (I didn't spend that amount to play ports of phone games.)
Also when I look at PC upgrade prices now (with GPUs now going beyond €1000 and everything below moving up accordingly) I think I'll pass. Buying new physical games without worrying about hardware and download bandwidth is a great thing.
Okay, that's something I'm not interested in at all. Instead I have a hard time finding PCs, which don't look like they came right out of Toys'R'US. I'm over 30 years past the playmobil age.
Having a 6 axis gyroscope touchpad game controller with vibration worth $70 as the baseline is an advantage, because the lowest common denominator on PC is mouse and keyboard ($5 each) and games suffer from that.
Just dare to release a controller-only game on PC see it tanking in Steam reviews! This is one of the reasons why many games don't get a PC port BTW.
In reality "all the flexibility" is mostly about getting the cheapest crap possible (>$100 controllers being a sub-one-percent niche within the PC market), with most PC users still owning nothing more than a simple two-axis controller (their mouse) and a bunch of (keyboard) buttons and are not willing to purchase any peripherals. I see even YouTube LPers with $3000 rigs complain about their broken $10 controller they got from Walmart "for that one game".
Of course, I myself use DualShock 4 on PC, which works absolutely great, but I know that's already a niche, when I look at Steam's controller profiles and how few users they have.
I used to be a pc gamer at heart and yes when you have a nice machine it'll always perform better then any console, on all levels.
I just got tired of having to upgrade my pc all the time, the fidgeting with drivers, etc.
I've got the Xbox One X now and I just like the convenience of it, the quality of the games graphics wise is good enough for me, the controller can be limiting at times compared to a hotas but it does it's job well enough.
I'm 52, I just want to relax in my recliner and have fun playing games, my One X provides me that in a convenient way.
But yeah a good gaming rig is cool too and will always outgun any console.
Another aspect for choosing a console could be the price too maybe, I don't know what a good gaming pc costs these days but for 500euros I got my One X, pretty good value for the price imho.
I just got tired of having to upgrade my pc all the time, the fidgeting with drivers, etc.
I've got the Xbox One X now and I just like the convenience of it, the quality of the games graphics wise is good enough for me, the controller can be limiting at times compared to a hotas but it does it's job well enough.
I'm 52, I just want to relax in my recliner and have fun playing games, my One X provides me that in a convenient way.
But yeah a good gaming rig is cool too and will always outgun any console.
Another aspect for choosing a console could be the price too maybe, I don't know what a good gaming pc costs these days but for 500euros I got my One X, pretty good value for the price imho.
Deleted member 110222
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I completely agree.
As far as the core gaming experience is concerned, the Xbox is vastly better value.
But as said this is a voicing of my personal journey and for me, consoles just don't accommodate what I want from gaming.
You misunderstood what I said.
I never said, "building a PC from scratch is cheaper than buying a console."
I said, "monies could've been invested in new hardware(s) for my PC." Of course, building/buying a new PC is going to be more expensive than buying a console system!
Okay... that's your preference... What am I supposed to do about it?!
You do know console systems are sold in Toys'R'Us stores, right?! Your console system is more Playmobil than my custom built PC, by your example.
Then by all means nock yourselfs out with your pc!!
Sometimes I wish I still had a good gaming rig, especially for playing some flight sims and ED of course.
My trusty X52 is gathering dust now, so is my Ferrari force feedback steering wheel
My recliner can be very convincing though.......
I'm glad I got the One X though, it's significantly better then the standard Xbox One, and no fidgeting with drivers anymore
It "didn't sell" because Microsoft was stupid....between the controversy surrounding "Always connected" and DRM and selling off games and relying on downloads and so on, the Xbox got off to a very bad start.
Making it worse? Microsoft pitched it as a Home Entertainment Centre rather than a console.
Making it even worse? Microsoft included the Kinetc device which would have been nice if it worked and was supported, but in reality did nothing of note except increase the price by £100.
Making it even more worse? Microsoft was so sure of its new direction that it basically dropped or shuttered a lot of its in house development teams and starved the XBox of exclusive games
IMO, the Xbox 1 is currently the superior machine...I much prefer games on it to using my PS4. I prefer the controller, the look and feel, the UI....but that's personal opinion.
HOWEVER....there is no denying that the PS4 is the must have console of this generation. The difference in game quality isn't so great that the many PS4 exclusives can be ignored.
Microsoft has made a good few decisions that look set to position it very nicely for the next generation. But that is then.
There are definitely games that controllers are better for, problem is I don't play those. M+KB are better for many stylers of gameplay that vanished when FPS took over everything. And yet PC players still spank console gamers on FPS games.
Yeah, it's funny how markets don't like being fed crap.
+1 - this is why I changed from PC to Xbox
I never built a gaming PC from scratch. My ship of Theseus is 25 years old and did cost somewhere around a base Tesla Model 3, when summed up and adjusted for inflation, with most of the budget spent in the early years. Even if I decide to buy every console released since the NES at original retail price, it's barely making a dent into that PC budget.
Or in other words: Console hardware cost doesn't matter, they're virtually "free".
PC gaming is not investment, it's literally ing away money each year. And that's fine, as long as it was fun. But somewhere around introduction of Steam, Windows Vista and Games for Windows LIVE it turned into something ... else, I don't like very much. So I cut the budget. And you know what happens to a PC, when you do that.
I want to blow up Rockstar games....
Since I won't be playing Red Dead 2 anytime soon [sad]
...But I love my dual 32" monitor setup and my comfy purple leather reclining office chair. I can also plug the PC into my 55" 4K TV and play from the sofa using my Xbox controller if I wished it so...since HDMi sockets aren't singular to consoles [squeeeee]
Since I won't be playing Red Dead 2 anytime soon [sad]
...But I love my dual 32" monitor setup and my comfy purple leather reclining office chair. I can also plug the PC into my 55" 4K TV and play from the sofa using my Xbox controller if I wished it so...since HDMi sockets aren't singular to consoles [squeeeee]
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
It is, very boring.
I'm a gamer, I play games on any device that's capable of playing games. From PC to consoles, to retro computers and arcade machines, to obscure Korean handheld's, etc. All are equally valid.
Why would they suffer from it? If you are on the PC, you have a keyboard, you assume that you are not bound to the 14 or so buttons a controller provides, if you do not wish to be. I personally have an X360 controller, because many games are better with it (hell, I play ED with the controller + keyboard/VA), but for some genres mouse + KB is a lot better, mostly because of hotkeys, bindable keys (and mouse buttons). I would for instance never try to play Pillars of Eternity or Divinity with a controller, when I can have my KB+M layout. There are ofc fools who claim that KB+M is the one true way and denounce good gamepad support, but you can't have everyone be reasonable. Now I understand your point on games that actually use gamepad functionalities that cannot be reproduced on a non analgoue input device (pressure sensitive buttons on the DualShock anyone?) but that's not saying that KB+M controls are holding games back. Input device preference should be an option, not a must. As for the price point.. who in their right mind would buy a 5$ mouse?
EDIT: Also, even though I know it's not a lot of cash in retrospect, having to pay on top of your ISP bill to be able to play online just sounds like a bonkers concept to me. I'm looking at you Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.
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I find it all very fascinating really. It's all about market dominance and brand loyalty (the later being a myth in reality) from Microsoft. It also goes back to how Microsoft essentially a software company came to dominate and saturate their own industry which caused such a backlash and fear amongst tech development companies and even governments that they felt they had to license the components and their connections to protect themselves; which still exists to this day (ie Intel, AMD, HDMI, USB, PCI-E etc..) there are very few unlicensed ones but they are (and should) grow in popularity ie. DP.
Microsoft reduce the product price initially as a hook (Ie xbox), then once you are hooked they set about recouping from the user using licensing and exclusivity (where they can). In all fairness Sony do a similar thing, which is good for the consumer as it keeps the initial cost down.
I am a PC user and I enjoy the occasional meddle with my hardware, something that you will never be able to do on the consoles, so that's why they are not for me.
Microsoft reduce the product price initially as a hook (Ie xbox), then once you are hooked they set about recouping from the user using licensing and exclusivity (where they can). In all fairness Sony do a similar thing, which is good for the consumer as it keeps the initial cost down.
I am a PC user and I enjoy the occasional meddle with my hardware, something that you will never be able to do on the consoles, so that's why they are not for me.
Because office gear ist not a game controller. You have to design games around the limitations of these input devices meant for something else.
A modern game controller is not just 14 buttons, the SNES/PS1 age is two decades in the past.
QED. That thing is outdated since five years and doesn't represent the current state of art. Its design is 13 years old now. Nobody supports the 360 controller on consoles anymore, because it has a superior successor. You're proving my argument.
Side note: Microsoft started selling that controller for PCs to establish a baseline with Xinput. And failed. Controller support on PC is still a complete hit and miss. Because PC users barely own any. Even with your 360 you're already part of an elite. Most people never make it past $10 bargain bin controllers.
As a matter of fact, people use the cheapest crap as peripherals after all the budget has gone to the GPU. Back then they started released PC games on DVD instead of CD (that was in 2004 two years before Bluray), people complained they couldn't read them, while consoles accepted DVDs since 2000. The story repeated with GTA V for PC, which got a 7 DVD release for PC, while the first console adopted Bluray in 2006. Of course, nowadays PC games don't have any disc in the box anymore (downloading all content from app stores like mobile phones, with people complaining about download sizes now).because many games are better with it (hell, I play ED with the controller + keyboard/VA), but for some genres mouse + KB is a lot better, mostly because of hotkeys, bindable keys (and mouse buttons). I would for instance never try to play Pillars of Eternity or Divinity with a controller, when I can have my KB+M layout. There are ofc fools who claim that KB+M is the one true way and denounce good gamepad support, but you can't have everyone be reasonable. Now I understand your point on games that actually use gamepad functionalities that cannot be reproduced on a non analgoue input device (pressure sensitive buttons on the DualShock anyone?) but that's not saying that KB+M controls are holding games back. Input device preference should be an option, not a must. As for the price point.. who in their right mind would buy a 5$ mouse?
That's the thing with consoles: They offer game developers a nice baseline to rely on: A big HD capable screen with multi-channel sound, a certain APU with a certain amount of memory, a certain amount of storage (currently 50 GB), a modern high quality game controller with many features to design gameplay around. (Ever seen a PC game using an accelerometer ever? That's a video game standard now.)
The only thing they can assume on PC is some version of Windows with one of two barely compatible 3D driver stacks, a green one and a red one, for everything else you have to go with the lowest common denominator. Anything that has any additional requirements (even the five years old console baseline) sells like crap. (BTW: The most common amount of VRAM on Steam ist still just 1 GB.) That's why many devs don't even bother with porting games.