News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal
to honk or not to honk.... that's the question on everyone's lips
All you've done is swap river for my mountain (if you have read my earlier posts).
A mountain is equivalent to a star system.
A mountain has terrain - a starsystem has its bodies (or not).
You can very quickly see the terrain of a mountain. This is what the ADS does - it allows one to quickly see the terrain - in other words, the bodies within the star system.
Some mountains are worth spending more time exploring than others. Similarly, some star systems are worth time exploring than others.
As shown, the new ADS system removes that quick overview of the "terrain" - in other words the bodies within the star system. It is as if you cannot see the terrain due to a deliberate act of placing a blindfold over one's eyes. Only after you play a game, can that blindfold slowly be removed, and you begin to see more of the "terrain".
In other words, the quick act of having an overview of the terrain of a mountain, is being replaced with an unecessarily slower game of slowly removing the blindfold. This is even before being able to explore the terrain.
Once again I keep seeing evidence of not being able to distinguish the quite obvious difference between seeing the terrain (discovery), and going to parts of the terrain and looking around for things to find and do (exploration).
To reiterate : discovery and exploration are two entirely different things. Discovery has an obvious connection to exploration - because you can't explore a mountain if you don't know it's there. The worst thing Frontier could do would be to slow down being able to see the terrain (bodies) of a mountain (star system). This is the only sticking point I have with the reveal and with what Frontier are adding to the game. The only one. Everything else looks interesting and I can't wait to try out Mapping a body using probes.
It would be a great pity if Frontier ruined all the other work they are doing by forcing a game of "slowly remove the blindfold so you can see the terrain of the mountain", because all that game is doing is adding a delusion that it is some kind of fun activity, that it is somehow Science! It is absolutely anti-Science to think that putting a blindfold over one's eyes and playing a game to slowly uncover said blindfold, is in any manner a sane thing to do - especially in a videogame of this nature, with its 400 billion mountains.
Were it up to me (& obviously it isn't), the exploration would go something like this:
1. Jump into the system & "honk" (same as now).
2. Honking will do several things-(a) give the player the emission/gravity data mentioned in the OP, (b) reveal detailed scans of all objects within x light-seconds of your ship, & low resolution scans of all stellar bodies within (x*y) light-seconds of your ship (which will appear in your System Map as blacked out spheres, with the probabilities for each stellar body class beneath it) & (c) bring up a number of hollow circles-of varying size-that represent the approximate positions of all the major gravity wells within the system.
3. After this point, a player has several options-(a) resolve the emission/gravity data by hand (which will hopefully be do-able from within your cockpit view), from either a sitting still or in-transit position, (b) feed emission/gravity data into your science module-if you have one-to produce a low-resolution map of the entire system, after a certain lag time or (c) begin flying towards one of the many circles on your HUD, in order to try doing a active secondary scan on the stellar body.
4. If you choose (c), then once you believe you are within range, you can attempt a secondary active scan, which will provide a detailed scan of all stellar bodies within range of your scanner. The range at which this active scan will work would be further away than the range at which the current passive scan kicks in. This secondary scan will also grant additional low-resolution scans of any planets that are no more (x*y) light-seconds away from your ship.
5. However the player chose to obtain their detailed surface scans, they can now choose if they want to (a) launch a probe at the stellar object or (b) use their own ship to do a high-altitude slingshot scan of the planet (difficult, dangerous......but I suspect potentially quite fun
).
6. In all likelihood, any option other than 3(a) will probably result in slightly fewer credits/experience.
Just a shame that I can't remember if I posted this before now, in this level of detail, so don't know if Adam will see it! Oh well, still worth posting.
1. Jump into the system & "honk" (same as now).
2. Honking will do several things-(a) give the player the emission/gravity data mentioned in the OP, (b) reveal detailed scans of all objects within x light-seconds of your ship, & low resolution scans of all stellar bodies within (x*y) light-seconds of your ship (which will appear in your System Map as blacked out spheres, with the probabilities for each stellar body class beneath it) & (c) bring up a number of hollow circles-of varying size-that represent the approximate positions of all the major gravity wells within the system.
3. After this point, a player has several options-(a) resolve the emission/gravity data by hand (which will hopefully be do-able from within your cockpit view), from either a sitting still or in-transit position, (b) feed emission/gravity data into your science module-if you have one-to produce a low-resolution map of the entire system, after a certain lag time or (c) begin flying towards one of the many circles on your HUD, in order to try doing a active secondary scan on the stellar body.
4. If you choose (c), then once you believe you are within range, you can attempt a secondary active scan, which will provide a detailed scan of all stellar bodies within range of your scanner. The range at which this active scan will work would be further away than the range at which the current passive scan kicks in. This secondary scan will also grant additional low-resolution scans of any planets that are no more (x*y) light-seconds away from your ship.
5. However the player chose to obtain their detailed surface scans, they can now choose if they want to (a) launch a probe at the stellar object or (b) use their own ship to do a high-altitude slingshot scan of the planet (difficult, dangerous......but I suspect potentially quite fun
).6. In all likelihood, any option other than 3(a) will probably result in slightly fewer credits/experience.
Just a shame that I can't remember if I posted this before now, in this level of detail, so don't know if Adam will see it! Oh well, still worth posting.
That is simply not true. All it does is to show that terrain in a different format, one which requires slightly more interpretation than the current system. If I were to show you a photo of Mount Everest, from a distance of around 20km-30km, would you be able to draw for me every single crevasse, ridge, shoulder & overhang leading to the top of the peak? I sincerely doubt it. Yet this is what we are expected to believe the ADS can do.
However, what the new system can seemingly do, which the v3.2 ADS can't, is use the emissions to determine what the mountain is physically made of, & if there is anything worth looking for on the mountain, without the need to travel the entirety of that 20+km.
I know which system I think is preferable.
Your use of the word "ruin" is also hyperbolic, as you have zero evidence that the new mechanic will ruin the game for anyone......even yourself.
NewADS removes the overview of the terrain - i.e. it removes the ability to quickly decide if that red dwarf system with 8 snowballs is worth further attention (exploring).
I'm calling the new system Advanced Ignorance Discovery System - seems perfectly apt for it as it currently stands.
Words fail me. Sorry Genar but that is biggest load of balony I have seen you write. Mostly you are good and make a lot of sense, but not this time.
Actually no. That level of detail comes from the DSS. The ADS at *best* gives you the photo.
What the new system does is rename the DSS to ADS and give it infinite range
you mean, "let me regurgitate the ideas which I find most appealing"?
there's some great ideas in this thread you have missed out
1, using probes to map the entire planet is good, locating ALL planet finds, poi,wreck ships, misalliances, buildings, cargo finds, beacons, everything
2, locating by ship and srv detailed information on the above should now be provided. Location markers and local system map markers.
3, The ability to marker a location and return to the same spot.
4, Poi should contain a mix of WELL BALANCED cargo finds material (please don't push just material all the time as it is now) rare finds credit value, not just coffee , tea or fish!!
5, Reduced flying time is also very welcome the less grind in flight is good for more fun interacting game play
6, More streamline orbital approach and quicker landing cycles would be nice.
7, Items found on planet should be marker visible once located, and should be easier to spot when closer.
8, please do not add location of finds, approx: location, to go hunting in the srv, chances are landing wont always be possible near the items so SRV hunting will still be implemented.
9, make landing on near flat surfaces better than in current game as well as the signal loss draw distance much improved.
10, make loading your srv a remote process thus affording your ship to not having to always land, maybe a flyby pick up.
11. landing lights for all ships similar the to chieftain.
2, locating by ship and srv detailed information on the above should now be provided. Location markers and local system map markers.
3, The ability to marker a location and return to the same spot.
4, Poi should contain a mix of WELL BALANCED cargo finds material (please don't push just material all the time as it is now) rare finds credit value, not just coffee , tea or fish!!
5, Reduced flying time is also very welcome the less grind in flight is good for more fun interacting game play
6, More streamline orbital approach and quicker landing cycles would be nice.
7, Items found on planet should be marker visible once located, and should be easier to spot when closer.
8, please do not add location of finds, approx: location, to go hunting in the srv, chances are landing wont always be possible near the items so SRV hunting will still be implemented.
9, make landing on near flat surfaces better than in current game as well as the signal loss draw distance much improved.
10, make loading your srv a remote process thus affording your ship to not having to always land, maybe a flyby pick up.
11. landing lights for all ships similar the to chieftain.
![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
As posted many, many pages above:
There is a third option: A new USS with "free-floating" materials needed for probe synthesis. If those were introduced, neither a mining laser nor a SRV would be mandatory for deep-space exploration.
As suggested in the post, I really would love some associated content, such as vacuum creatures protecting their "hord" (maybe they gathered the materials in order to feed their breed). But this is just a personal preference and not neccessary for the solution to work.
Ziggy, Genar, Riverside and others ...
I've only properly left the bubbly twice in the last 4 years because of the lack of exploration mechanics. I really like the sound of what FD are proposing and I'm looking forward to trying them out.
However, I also totally get what you find interesting in systems and why the current ADS mechanic works for that.
I hope that FD can accomodate what you're looking for, and I genuinely wouldn't mind if that meant a change in the proposed ADS/DSS setup. You know, a compromise o7
I've only properly left the bubbly twice in the last 4 years because of the lack of exploration mechanics. I really like the sound of what FD are proposing and I'm looking forward to trying them out.
However, I also totally get what you find interesting in systems and why the current ADS mechanic works for that.
I hope that FD can accomodate what you're looking for, and I genuinely wouldn't mind if that meant a change in the proposed ADS/DSS setup. You know, a compromise o7
I'm not exactly going to stop playing regardless of the final implementation, and I would guess most of the high post-count players here are the same
I'm not exactly going to stop playing regardless of the final implementation, and I would guess most of the high post-count players here are the same
I agree. I think most would just adapt how they play the game and carry on.
I'm not exactly going to stop playing regardless of the final implementation, and I would guess most of the high post-count players here are the same
I would guess so too
Which proves you actually didn't read the OP, which thus makes your opinion easy to dismiss. The ADS (now called FSS) is meant to do what the DSS currently does-namely give you details of the material components of the planet, as well as if there is anything of interest on the surface of the planet. The probe does what no current part of the exploration mechanic does-namely tell you *where* those interesting things are.
I'm not exactly going to stop playing regardless of the final implementation, and I would guess most of the high post-count players here are the same
Quite the opposite, really. My hours of play-time have dropped off significantly these past 5 months or so. The mining & exploration changes-if they come to fruition-would see that play-time increase significantly. Heck, I am even considering buying a second account....my current one for exploration, & a new one especially for the Bubble.
I hope that one of the options is to let us try out the proposal, as currently detailed, during Beta.
I like the sound of the new mechanics but I think I need to see the system in action before giving any feedback.
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uh huh
Firstly, the OP does not mention FSS;
secondly;
You were talking about the current ADS above, since;
thus, I was also referring to the current ADS and DSS;
Also, I find
is materially the same as;
So now that we agree, shall we get back to trying to be constructive?