Squadrons and Proper colonization mechanics

[WordSmith]

Or players could just switch to solo to gain access to whatever mythical thing would only exist in this particular hypothetical system.

I like the idea of player owned bases. I think it would ignite the game. Bring back players who have become bored, or jaded after debacles like the Gnosis event.

But these suggestions are a long way from Eve Dangerous.

Eve is a very complex and deep game with many sub layers.

Elite Dangerous is space sim with a bit of trading and combat tacked on.

It needs more. But. Even this, player owned bases, might be too little too late.

 

[Yure]

WOW! The amount of haterade for OP's idea is quite amusing and disappointing at the same time.

First off... It's a suggestion to add more gameplay. Never a bad thing. If ED wants to stay alive for the long run, they will eventually have to implement more mechanics to stay relevant. Else some other company with bigger assets will fill the need. It's just the way it is.

Two, nothing wrong with colonization/building gameplay. It's a space exploration game with a VAST amount of space and real estate; It would be an incredible waste if something like this wasn't planned for further down the line. So it's not a far fetched idea.

Three. I would reckon it would be easier to implement a system of player built cities, than to implement going into ELWs and walking around. For an ELW to be as beautiful as people would want it ... Well that code is just not there.

Four. Faction buildings would be a good and healthy money sink, which the game needs.

 

[varonica]

WOW! The amount of haterade for OP's idea is quite amusing and disappointing at the same time.

You really are reading more into the forum discussion than actually exists, there's no hatred here, for a start many people, considering the networking technology used by ED don't know how such a thing would realistically work, and others simply don't see it fitting into the actual game as envisaged. I have seen many things suggested here, right down to tank wars on landable planets, and my answer to that is, yes FDEV could do it, but it's never going to be as good as a game designed for tank wars, just as base building would never be as good in ED as it would in a game designed for that. You can't just shove every single game mechanic into ED under the argument that "this will fix ED."

In fact it's my opinion that it would more likely kill ED by destroying any focus in the game. Note that this is my OPINION, it is not hatred, that's a poor way of trying to deflect criticism and we see it more and more these days, it appears that some people think everyone who has a different opinion is hating, they simply aren't.

 

[Muzz UK]

WOW! The amount of haterade for OP's idea is quite amusing and disappointing at the same time.

First off... It's a suggestion to add more gameplay. Never a bad thing. If ED wants to stay alive for the long run, they will eventually have to implement more mechanics to stay relevant. Else some other company with bigger assets will fill the need. It's just the way it is.

Two, nothing wrong with colonization/building gameplay. It's a space exploration game with a VAST amount of space and real estate; It would be an incredible waste if something like this wasn't planned for further down the line. So it's not a far fetched idea.

Three. I would reckon it would be easier to implement a system of player built cities, than to implement going into ELWs and walking around. For an ELW to be as beautiful as people would want it ... Well that code is just not there.

Four. Faction buildings would be a good and healthy money sink, which the game needs.

Personally think base building is more suited to a different genre. As much as Space Engineers or Galactic Empyrion are sandbox space games they don't have the combat, exploration or simulator aspect of Elite Dangerous or a universe as big. Don't get me wrong I like my building survival space games but Elite should focus more on in ship in space gameplay that's what it's always been. There are plenty of things to expand on and new mechanics that could be added.

Ship to ship combat in Space Engineers is pretty basic and naff

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

For those who think that the ability to expand the bubble and make new bubbles in different parts of the Galaxy is a waste of time and and that empire building is not right for elite dangerous do me a favor and explain what Colonia is. All I propose is the same thing only players based. If FDev can artificially introduce Colonia into the game why can’t players build the same thing somewhere else on the map. There are 400 billion star systems out there. If commanders are allowed to colonize the Galaxy it would make the Galaxy alive and dynamic.
Oh and one more thing I would like to point out I have from the beginning have have always been an advocate for proper fleet mechanics and everyone told me I was wasting my time it would never make it into the game, it was not right for elite dangerous, elite dangerous was not about group gameplay. And now we have squadrons coming in to the game.
All I am saying now is that Proper colonization mechanics is the next logical progression for the game. Colonia proved it can be done and commanders would take advantage of it all I am asking for is that let the players do the work. Let us haul and trade and build and pick the next place where the next Colonia will be.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

For those who think that the ability to expand the bubble and make new bubbles in different parts of the Galaxy is a waste of time and and that empire building is not right for elite dangerous do me a favor and explain what Colonia is. All I propose is the same thing only players based. If FDev can artificially introduce Colonia into the game why can’t players build the same thing somewhere else on the map. There are 400 billion star systems out there. If commanders are allowed to colonize the Galaxy it would make the Galaxy alive and dynamic.
Oh and one more thing I would like to point out I have from the beginning have have always been an advocate for proper fleet mechanics and everyone told me I was wasting my time it would never make it into the game, it was not right for elite dangerous, elite dangerous was not about group gameplay. And now we have squadrons coming in to the game.
All I am saying now is that Proper colonization mechanics is the next logical progression for the game. Colonia proved it can be done and commanders would take advantage of it all I am asking for is that let the players do the work. Let us haul and trade and build and pick the next place where the next Colonia will be.

Please post a picture of a sad face when squadrons is introduced and provides very little of what you'd actually like.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Please post a picture of a sad face when squadrons is introduced and provides very little of what you'd actually like.

Like the SAD FACE you made when they announced Squadrons and group gameplay.

I look forward to Squadrons in what ever format it comes in because I know a game like elite dangerous is developed over time and I except changes to the gameplay and I try to keep a positive outlook for the future for elite dangerous. That being said I am also an advocate for elite dangerous to innovate and evolve and proper colonization mechanics (PCM) could be the next great step for elite dangerous in my humble opinion.

 

[Muzz UK]

For those who think that the ability to expand the bubble and make new bubbles in different parts of the Galaxy is a waste of time and and that empire building is not right for elite dangerous do me a favor and explain what Colonia is. All I propose is the same thing only players based. If FDev can artificially introduce Colonia into the game why can’t players build the same thing somewhere else on the map. There are 400 billion star systems out there. If commanders are allowed to colonize the Galaxy it would make the Galaxy alive and dynamic.
Oh and one more thing I would like to point out I have from the beginning have have always been an advocate for proper fleet mechanics and everyone told me I was wasting my time it would never make it into the game, it was not right for elite dangerous, elite dangerous was not about group gameplay. And now we have squadrons coming in to the game.
All I am saying now is that Proper colonization mechanics is the next logical progression for the game. Colonia proved it can be done and commanders would take advantage of it all I am asking for is that let the players do the work. Let us haul and trade and build and pick the next place where the next Colonia will be.

Colonia is just expansion of the existing game mechanic and base clearly aimed at explorers as a mid way point to dock, repair and sell data. It's had no base building or player sandbox element.

Fleet mechanics/squadrons are very different to sandbox building.

 

[kpmop]

While i'm interested in colonization to some extent, i wonder what the point would actually be.

I mean, you go out there, do your colony, and then... what?

I can only think it might be nice to set up a colony with a like minded player group well away from other players. A place with pristine rings and lots of unexplored systems around. But i can't imagine a lot of players wanting that. Outfitting would be light and a long way from engineers and stuff. Not many players around.

And if close to the bubble, why? Just to have a home with less outfitting and stuff than the surrounding systems? Hell, i get that already with my home system as it is.

So, yeah, i kind of want colonization, but not sure what i would actually do with it.

I kind of see it as a PF finds an empty system, they decide they want to colonise it so they toddle over and build a small starting base - either an outpost in orbit or a planetary base. This would require a CG like amount of resources (to weed out PFs that weren't serious) which I guess you could coordinate via squadrons - maybe it could trigger targetted pirate attacks. Then they decide they want large landing pads and then have a ship in another pile of resources etc. Then maybe once that base has reached a sufficient size it could be expanded to have decent outfitting/shipyard etc based on the outcomes of CG type events.

If the PF chooses to colonise a system way out in the black, then they'll struggle to ship the resources out there, or have to mine nearby systems... It wouldn't add much that isn't already in game, but just give it more of a focus. There could be a mechanism such that if the station doesn't receive a certain amount of BGS points (however they're worked out) every week it starts falling into disrepair and eventually collapses (if it's in the middle of nowhere) or gets taken over by a NPC faction as per normal if it's in/near the bubble.

Of course this means that the PF could enact tyrannical control of the system, blockading stations and ports and limiting other CMDRs to the few 10s of thousands of other systems, so yeah, there are downsides to consider...

Anyway that's just what the first (OK second) coffee has sluiced out of my brain this morning... so typical disclaimers etc.

 

[Han_Zen]

No player bases in ED. Hope, wish and pray.

I don't actually see any harm in allowing squadrons to control and possibly build bases. Player factions already have stations and bases. The Canonn even have the Gnosis. They make very little difference to those that are not involved with the group.
As long as we accept that persistent objects are currently limited in functionality and flexibility(They only change on Thursday morning).

As long as cash or resources aren't piped back to individual commanders, I don't have an issue with it anymore.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

I feel if colonization was handed out like a Squadron size mission then commanders could create construction squadrons and move like a nomadic construction squadron moving from minor faction to minor faction looking for the highest payouts to do the job. And if colonization is based off a minor factions Net Worth then small minor faction could grow larger over time and large minor faction could become empires as well maybe even new superpower in the Galaxy hence growing Power Play options.
Having proper colonization mechanics or (PCM) in the game would make elite dangerous more dynamic and evolving game.
That sounds like a win,win scenario to me.

 

[M00ka]

I feel if colonization was handed out like a Squadron size mission then commanders could create construction squadrons and move like a nomadic construction squadron moving from minor faction to minor faction looking for the highest payouts to do the job. And if colonization is based off a minor factions Net Worth then small minor faction could grow larger over time and large minor faction could become empires as well maybe even new superpower in the Galaxy hence growing Power Play options.
Having proper colonization mechanics or (PCM) in the game would make elite dangerous more dynamic and evolving game.
That sounds like a win,win scenario to me.

No doubt your PCM concept will make ED more dynamic and evolving game for you, but the game isn't being designed solely for you. Oh and thanks for finally confirming you are after empire building as the main game focus

 

[Muetdhiver]

Allowing players to *build* something in a sandbox game ? Are you nuts ?

[haha]

It could be good fun, and frankly, as long as it's harmless / usefull to unafiliated players, I'd say roll with it.
Allowing to build bases does not say anything about ownership and executive control.

More like cosmetic control. Pretty sure it would work.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

No doubt your PCM concept will make ED more dynamic and evolving game for you, but the game isn't being designed solely for you. Oh and thanks for finally confirming you are after empire building as the main game focus

Thank you for admitting the PCM concept would make elite dangerous a more dynamic and evolving game. But I respectfully disagree with you about my intentions on introducing this type of gameplay mechanics. I am of the mind to suggest gameplay that would be open for everyone and enjoyed by many like minded commanders. It is not about building an individual empire it is about creating an dynamic and meaningful relationship with elite dangerous. I am trying to be open minded and forward thinking. I understand that may be hard for some people who are so closed minded and set in there way that they fear anything that is new and innovative.
That kind of person is happy with the status quo and has a hard time thinking out of the box they live in.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If ED wants to stay alive for the long run, they will eventually have to implement more mechanics to stay relevant.

They are doing, but what people want is different things, and what FD are adding might not be to everyone's taste - it can't be. If they add what OP wants there will be people complaining that its a waste of dev time. If they add something else, then other people will complain the devs are wasting time. Game development is a no-win scenario anyway.

And there is no hatred of the suggestion, dislike maybe, not want, for sure, would like devs to put their attention somewhere else, definitely, and of course, not wanting ED to become first person EvE, which unfortunately OP tends to provoke that reaction due to their choice of avatar and their long history of making suggestions to make it more like EvE. It wouldn't surprise me if more than a few saw who was making the suggestion and immediately dismissed it because of the poster - which is unfortunately, but people build up histories on forums that can jaundice people. I'm sure there are more than a few people around here who groan when they see one my posts

As I posted earlier, i'm more wondering what it would actually bring. It sounds cool on first glance as many ideas do, and i do think colonization definitely belongs in ED... but there needs to be something that you can get out of it... but not so that people will immediately go base building all over the place to reap rewards, then abandoning them. There needs to be a hook and a reason to then stay with the colonies... and i don't see that for the moment. Its not like FD are going to add like extra benefits to having colonized a system, not without giving the same things to existing stations, and if existing stations have those things, why coloinze.. except as i suggested, to set up a base a long way from the bubble.

Regardless, for me its something that could come later. I still want atmospheric worlds and other stuff before things like this, and fleet carriers, ie: mobile bases, might be a lot more interesting than more static bases.

Thank you for admitting the PCM concept would make elite dangerous a more dynamic and evolving game. But I respectfully disagree with you about my intentions on introducing this type of gameplay mechanics. I am of the mind to suggest gameplay that would be open for everyone and enjoyed by many like minded commanders. It is not about building an individual empire it is about creating an dynamic and meaningful relationship with elite dangerous. I am trying to be open minded and forward thinking. I understand that may be hard for some people who are so closed minded and set in there way that they fear anything that is new and innovative.
That kind of person is happy with the status quo and has a hard time thinking out of the box they live in.

Don't confuse those who are not interested in your idea or simply don't want as not wanting improvements. This is a fallacy people sometimes fall into. I think its fair to say we all want the game to evolve, just sometimes in different ways.

 

[M00ka]

They are doing, but what people want is different things, and what FD are adding might not be to everyone's taste - it can't be. If they add what OP wants there will be people complaining that its a waste of dev time. If they add something else, then other people will complain the devs are wasting time. Game development is a no-win scenario anyway.

And there is no hatred of the suggestion, dislike maybe, not want, for sure, would like devs to put their attention somewhere else, definitely, and of course, not wanting ED to become first person EvE, which unfortunately OP tends to provoke that reaction due to their choice of avatar and their long history of making suggestions to make it more like EvE. It wouldn't surprise me if more than a few saw who was making the suggestion and immediately dismissed it because of the poster - which is unfortunately, but people build up histories on forums that can jaundice people. I'm sure there are more than a few people around here who groan when they see one my posts

As I posted earlier, i'm more wondering what it would actually bring. It sounds cool on first glance as many ideas do, and i do think colonization definitely belongs in ED... but there needs to be something that you can get out of it... but not so that people will immediately go base building all over the place to reap rewards, then abandoning them. There needs to be a hook and a reason to then stay with the colonies... and i don't see that for the moment. Its not like FD are going to add like extra benefits to having colonized a system, not without giving the same things to existing stations, and if existing stations have those things, why coloinze.. except as i suggested, to set up a base a long way from the bubble.

Regardless, for me its something that could come later. I still want atmospheric worlds and other stuff before things like this, and fleet carriers, ie: mobile bases, might be a lot more interesting than more static bases.



Don't confuse those who are not interested in your idea or simply don't want as not wanting improvements. This is a fallacy people sometimes fall into. I think its fair to say we all want the game to evolve, just sometimes in different ways.

Well said AA, I wish I could have got the point across as eloquently as you just did (yeah I know I get a little emotive at time lol).

I am not against structures etc coming into the game, I just would prefer that they align is the original concept of ED that is one lone commander. But before these structures coming into the game, Space Legs and Atmospheric Landings has to come first, otherwise what is the use of having your own 'home' if you can't walk around it. Next is the location, either an asteroid, an airless planet or moon or an atmospheric planet. For the first two, the player would select where they want the structure to be built, fire a special probe and the next server tick the structure appears (i.e. built by NPCs). For the atmospheric planets, the player would select a location at a space port because it would be silly to let players select a location where FD might have cities etc planned.

As for the structure themselves, you would purchase the probe based on what size pad you want (only one pad because that is all you need) and how many ships you want to be able to hangar there. They should be the only concerns as the rest of the structure would be generic. Basic repair, refuel and rearm (at a cost to the player) would be available along with outfitting but only to swap stored modules, no buying new ones. No trading, cartography, etc, they still need to be only available at stations.

Anyway, that is what I would like to see, which I know isn't what others want, but this is a discussion forum ..

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

The way I see it is that PCM could be an interesting addition to the BGS as well as add more strategic value to the power play.
I know that a lot of commanders want space legs but I would rather see more gameplay made for ships and more career paths for commanders. This is a space flight game after all. If elite started out like No Man Sky I would understand the need for space legs but it started out as a flight sim. It is my humble opinion that gameplay development should be around that aspect of the game. Plus what good is have atmospheric planetary landings if we nothing to do there but take pretty screenshots.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

We've already had that with the AEDC attempting lockdown after lockdown in Lave , blocking the supply of brandy, which is needed to unlock an engineer......

Bill

Lave has been in lockdown for about 20 days out of 120 or so, so hardly problematic, and parties in the conflict and others have been providing brandy to those that need it.

But you know this already, but you just like to stir the pot, right?

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

So a question I have been thinking about. Let’s assume PCM is in the game should colonization be able to be blocked and how should that work?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The way I see it is that PCM could be an interesting addition to the BGS as well as add more strategic value to the power play.

Can you go into details how you think this would work? Or if you have covered it already in a previous post, can you point me to it? For PP at least, it would add to the area you need to control, and presumably in a direction away from existing colonized areas, meaning further from your capital, meaning harder to maintain, and PP is already a game where you have to run harder to stay in the same place the more you expand.

For the BGS... well, if you are set up out on the edge, perhaps, but then, i don't think there is much competition for systems out on the edge anyway.

So a question I have been thinking about. Let’s assume PCM is in the game should colonization be able to be blocked and how should that work?

How could it be blocked? And why would anyone want to block it. So, you're looking to colonize a system out on the edge of a bubble. Why would anyone care? Go right ahead, be my guest.