The Star Citizen Thread v9

Surefoot

S
Cloud Breaker said:
That happens on earth now at least theoretically, I'm sure by Elites time frame missile tech will be preferred and killing people on the other side of solar systems.
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Missiles do and will miss, due to many factors (from the missile itself losing tracking or counter measures, evasion..) and then from BVR the combat switches to close range. Proper engagement is needed to avoid jousting like a noob (and getting fragged by a more competent pilot).. It's true in today's world, and while space offer less terrain masking (we could make a case for asteroids...) there are still counter measures physical and electronic.
Also having played DCS quite a lot i can tell that even in good conditions they are far from 100%..
 

Tippis

Tippis
Surefoot said:
Missiles do and will miss, due to many factors (from the missile itself losing tracking or counter measures, evasion..) and then from BVR the combat switches to close range. Proper engagement is needed to avoid jousting like a noob (and getting fragged by a more competent pilot).. It's true in today's world, and while space offer less terrain masking (we could make a case for asteroids...) there are still counter measures physical and electronic.
Also having played DCS quite a lot i can tell that even in good conditions they are far from 100%..
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To be fair, DCS missiles are very badly done — they're slowly making them simulate actual physical conditions and targeting logic, but still…

Also, in space “close range” would still be a matter of far far outside visual range, but rather be determined by the point where you could employ kinetic and directed energy weaponry without light speed lag being an issue. Manoeuvering would only be a factor in terms of making sure you're properly screened by your countermeasure systems. Jousting would only happen if both ships had screwed up completely and were oblivious to each other's existence.

Then, just as much as farther out, the deciding factor would not be piloting skill so much as sensors and detection skill — whoever sees first, shoots first, and evades first, and if the other guy ever saw the attack coming, you'd be demoted for your grave incompetence… probably to the position of kinetic-kill ammunition or reactor clean-up crew.
 

Iron Golem

Iron Golem
Surefoot said:
Missiles do and will miss, due to many factors (from the missile itself losing tracking or counter measures, evasion..) and then from BVR the combat switches to close range. Proper engagement is needed to avoid jousting like a noob (and getting fragged by a more competent pilot).. It's true in today's world, and while space offer less terrain masking (we could make a case for asteroids...) there are still counter measures physical and electronic.
Also having played DCS quite a lot i can tell that even in good conditions they are far from 100%..
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Agreed look at the mistake in Vietnam air war where some of the US jets only had a few primitive missiles. Pilots begged for a multi cannon. I think in a couple cases they rigged them up of their own accord.

Still though unless you can compete technologically with equal tier jamming / anti missile defense wise, long range destruction of primitive threats will be the norm.
 

Surefoot

S
In real world they used to be absolutely not reliable at all (some were duds, some lost tracking with no good reason, some IR guided ones still try and hunt the Sun..) they are getting better but DCS is not far from reality: counter measure systems are quite good as well. The best bet in space would be optical / aspect seeking since there is no terrain masking, but again i imagine one could find counter measures too (like giant foils for example...). So yeah anyway for SC the game has speed limits for ships, and the weapons range mean BVR is out of the question.
 

Tippis

Tippis
Also, for SC the game, its simulationist aspirations sits roughly on the same level as Wings of Fury. Or possibly Operation Wolf.

Oh, and while the operational effectiveness of DCS missiles may not be far off from reality, it's not because of accurate simulation, but rather the exact opposite: the things that would make them miss are often not simulated properly or at all, and instead they miss because of very silly design flaws in how they are simulated (eg. excessive drag, complete lack of pursuit logic, over-manoevring to compensate for that lack of logic, too little energy to begin with and that energy then being wasted on the aforementioned factors). [haha]
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Don’t give Genuine Roberts ideas! He’ll invent the light-gun next and we’ll have another must-have RSI branded peripheral to immerse ourselves with in the ‘Verse!
 

Tippis

Tippis
Asp Explorer said:
Don’t give Genuine Roberts ideas! He’ll invent the light-gun next and we’ll have another must-have RSI branded peripheral to immerse ourselves with in the ‘Verse!
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You know, as a well-conceived light gun game, SC would possibly become a bit interesting in a kind of throwback way. Kind of like how Tesla Effect leaned heavily into the ridiculousness of making a modern FMV game with all the old-school puzzle trappings still intact.
 

Surefoot

S
Realism points are moot anyway with how players move (many times faster than a normal human, not mentioning wearing heavy armored suits..) or lasers that you can see coming and dodge (the ones in ED are quite well done in contrast).
 

Iron Golem

Iron Golem
Surefoot said:
Realism points are moot anyway with how players move (many times faster than a normal human, not mentioning wearing heavy armored suits..) or lasers that you can see coming and dodge (the ones in ED are quite well done in contrast).
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I really like the hit scan style energy weapons in ED its a nice varied option from the propelled physical munitions. I have to say the way CIG portrays multi-cannons in their trailers look amazing and how I think they should be in a game but the actual ones in the tech demo don't come off the same way.
 

Wotthe Dickens

Wotthe Dickens
Tippis said:
I mean technically, that still makes it the case that it has never been heard of from any game before. Or at least not from any other game. :p
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MTBFritz said:
Unless Star Citizen turns into a game your first remark is correct :)
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You're both right of course :)
There was a time when the number of outlandish glitches and humorus bugs in SC led me to think there was almost a game there (link to previous bug fix lists here..) - a surreal, humorous game, and definitely not as pitched...
Pretty similar to why WC the film holds any appeal for me actually!
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
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Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
Viajero said:
Latest RtV main topic:

2:48: Please describe in visual language what you intend two fighters dogfighting to look like in terms of positioning, maneuvering etc

Boy, am I glad that the issue is going to be dealt with only after 6-7 years of development and more than 4 years from when I (among many others) actually raised the same issue and idea of working on the one on one mechanics to ensure a good flight model foundation and experience.
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Better Late Than Never......
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Jacques d'Orleans said:
Clown Imperium UK's yearly financial report for 2017.
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Not sure if this was deliberate or not but... bwa ha ha ha ha!

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wstephenson

wstephenson
Viajero said:
Latest RtV main topic:

2:48: Please describe in visual language what you intend two fighters dogfighting to look like in terms of positioning, maneuvering etc

Boy, am I glad that the issue is going to be dealt with only after 6-7 years of development and more than 4 years from when I (among many others) actually raised the same issue and idea of working on the one on one mechanics to ensure a good flight model foundation and experience.
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I think I've seen this kind of landing assist interface somewhere before...
 

Jacques d'Orleans

Banned
Jacques d'Orleans
Latest roadmap update
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