The new exploration system
- Thread starter Anoobvia
- Start date
Please stop with the lies mate. It is not clever or good. The other thread was not sabotaged at all, it was locked because of a certain person posted something incredibly unpleasent on it.
How is it a lie? On any normal forum the guy would be banned. But on this one? Dont delete the post, just bury the entire thread. Then it happens again. Sycophantry and sabotage have made sure that there is no discussion and no feedback can be left. I look at this and i think, it doesnt surprise me that he got away with posting pictures of the nazty dictator because here we are excluding and invalidating a certain group. It was all "play your way" not so long ago but now they got your money its "oh sorry your play style cant be accomodated" I have repeatedly suggested a compromise but it seems that fdev is determined to single out this particular group and do away with them. How thoroughly dishonest to bait and switch in such a way.
And so i find myself thinking, it doesnt really matter how things turn out any more. I see the way fdev behaves and suddenly all the fun has gone out of things.
And so i find myself thinking, it doesnt really matter how things turn out any more. I see the way fdev behaves and suddenly all the fun has gone out of things.
Not really, you can still play it, just much slower. (How much? Three more days to see.) So it's more like this:
Frontier at launch: "Here's a whole galaxy for you to explore. Go out and blaze your own trail!"
Frontier, four years later: "Oh yeah, we kind of forgot about explorers, let's see what they have been up to... Whoa whoa whoa, slow down guys! You're blazing your trails too fast! Here, have a speed limit so that you'll have to watch all the scenery you didn't much care about earlier."
Jesus not this again . Is this Dangerous Discussions or what.
When your go-to comment is calling people trolls because they don't agree with you, it's no surprise. That's the kind of attitude that draws the mods attention for sure. And despite your deliberate mis-characterization, it seems that the people who are positive about the changes are overwhelmingly in the majority.
@Varix, it would seem that with the new system folks will have to choose whether they're blitzing to a long distance destination or actually trying to explore, if efficiency is paramount. I don't think the dev's will be convinced to straddle the fence on this issue.
What does this have to do with mods shutting down other threads?
No, its just all the threads where people didnt like certian changes have been shut down. Its obvious where fdev stands.
Forum mods don't work for FD and close threads due to uncivil behaviour. This forum has thousands of threads complaining about FDev and the game, does it look like FD closes them because they're upset?
I think a big part of the problem in the debate can be summed up by this sentence. There's a disconnect behind what "explore" means to the different people, and this sentence illustrates it well. The thought behind is that "either you are blitzing or you are exploring, you can't be exploring rapidly", which i disagree with.
- Blitzing to a destination is the same now as before : you don't honk (or you honk but don't even look at the result), you just jump out of system asap and that's it, both old and new mechanics are irrelevant. (else you aren't blitzing)
- Exploring for many people here means looking for and trying to find stuff (in terms of possible sights, interesting orbits, ..., not credits). There's no "ha, you spent less than 2 min in the system, that's no exploration", you don't need to spend hours in a system to suddenly "qualify" for being actually exploring it. Honking and watching the system map to detect unusual stuff is already exploration: people doing it are taking a look at their surroundings and trying to ferret out stuff.
And the main reason that they are able to find stuff just looking at that system view is that they are those who have already spent all those hours in thousands of systems before, and learned to understand how orbit parameters or whatever (i'm not that pro, i wouldn't know precisely) tend to actually result in all those boring things they've already seen plenty off, or tend to present some attractive characteristics.
I think most explorers (here at least) give themselves a general direction or target and then go at it either blitzing, or taking the time to see if there's anything interesting in their surroundings (some times mixing both approaches). Some of those interesting things are unrelated to the old/new system (nebulas, peculiar star constellations, ...), some are (very fast orbiting planets, a landable satellite near enough to it's parent to make it interesting, and probably lots of other signs i wouldn't know).
If the new system costs them let's say 1 min per system (no idea, even 30s would still be impacting in the long run anyway) compared to the old one, considering they tend to visit largely above 1000 systems per trip, you can already see the huge difference that it makes. Add to that the repetitiveness of it (made especially worse since there's basically a 95% + chance of yielding things you've already seen plenty). The old system isn't considered pleasant, but at least it wasn't much of a constraint either.
The new system will certainly be more fun in itself, but having to do it thousands of times will wear it out really fast.
Of course people will adapt. They'll blitz more or will take more time. But it isn't pleasant.
Especially since there would be ways to still have some of those informations they used tied to the honk (orbitals, distance from sun, ...) while still hiding the relationship between bodies and their type or whatever (in order to still make the new system engaging and useful for most purposes).
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Saying that nobody like it apart from a few trolls is a lie.
The person that got the other thread closed down was not me or anyone in favour of the new exploration tools. It's was someone who doesnt like them.
That is the two lies you said in your post. As to the one on dangerous discussion. The OP requested it to be closed. Again, nothing to do with anyone else.
Get your facts straight please.
Why is adapting to something new unpleasant?
Initially I was dead against the new method. I felt that it would dramatically slow down the way that I explore systems, I visit & scan EACH Planet in a system except the Ice/Rock worlds, so I was concerned.
However, now I reasoned things out & seen the method in operation, I'm more relaxed about it & actually feel that there's a good chance it'll quicken up how fast I can scan the system Planets, because I won't/shouldn't need to travel to them.
You can't really count the new Planetgolf in this because this is something new & unless you're into searching for POI's (which I'm not), then you'd be taking your time spending days Mk1 eyeballing Planets anyway!
As others have said, can't see why FD continue to emphasise on credits, unless you're new to the game, which I'm not (my 2.5bil cr's from exploration have been made during really low payout times), what credits I get now is irrelevent.
I'm waiting with interest to try the new method in Beta. My only concerns are how a multistar system with 70-80+ Planets looks on this graph & how quick can these be identified. Then I'll be testing the same unexplored systems with both methods to determine which method is quicker.
However, now I reasoned things out & seen the method in operation, I'm more relaxed about it & actually feel that there's a good chance it'll quicken up how fast I can scan the system Planets, because I won't/shouldn't need to travel to them.
You can't really count the new Planetgolf in this because this is something new & unless you're into searching for POI's (which I'm not), then you'd be taking your time spending days Mk1 eyeballing Planets anyway!
As others have said, can't see why FD continue to emphasise on credits, unless you're new to the game, which I'm not (my 2.5bil cr's from exploration have been made during really low payout times), what credits I get now is irrelevent.
I'm waiting with interest to try the new method in Beta. My only concerns are how a multistar system with 70-80+ Planets looks on this graph & how quick can these be identified. Then I'll be testing the same unexplored systems with both methods to determine which method is quicker.
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The problem is not that it's new, i even said it would certainly more fun in itself then honking. The problem is having to do something that takes longer to get the same result a thousand times.
Let's say there's a law that you have to jump up on each step you take. It's fun the first time, but when you are walking kilometers it'll be annoying rapidly. You can adapt to it, but it being new is not going to help much.
I mean, not many game-mechanics can survive being engaging when you have to go through them thousands of times. If you need to use that mechanic because of other reasons (finding out if the system has new stuff), you'll of course end up preferring the one that doesn't take as much time. (or you end up leaving it be)
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And as many have pointed out, it's not hard to simply replace the old systems for getting detailed data on planets (flying to them and scanning them with a DSS) with this system for the people who are interested in getting that kind of scan on a planet, benefiting them by removing the time spent flying to worlds, while retaining the at-a-glance data necessary for identifying if there's something of interest to explorers who look for the curiosities which cannot be reduced to simple planetary scan data but instead only have meaning in a specifically human context, where they catch the eye.
It's not hard to cater to both groups if developers want to. Reducing the time taken to do one thing at the expense of massively increasing the time taken to do another just shifts who is experiencing the problem, rather than fixing it.
Except it doesnt take longer to get the same results. It takes longer but you get far more informarion. What people thought was an uninteresting system may have not been, but you wouldn't know. Now we will know.
Yes I expect it to take a bit longer. It really shouldn't be an issue it was always going to take longer if the original non-gameplay honk was to change. Gameplay takes longer then no gameplay.
Personally I don't care if it takes longer as long as the experience is fun and engaging. I have done the travel style exploration many a time and to be honest, it's the worst way to explore as you can miss so much if all you do is look at the system map and make a snap decision.
Also I am sure people will adapt quickly and make a snap decision based in the wave forms and where the gravity signatures are located. That is all will happen.
You will know how many bodies are in a system from the initial honk, if it's over 20, it's likely to have something interesting in.
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Exactly. This is so obvious to even the casual observer aswell. Being forced to jump thru that same stupid hoop again and again is going to get boring very fast, especially if you dont even care about the supposed hidden information. How tiresome has that aliens sample become? Every jump *wheeeze* Yeah think what its going to be like, the path of least resistance will be to not explore.
We all know that compromise is the way forward here.
No we don't as none of know what it's like in practice.
We won't know for certain until next week when we actually play it, but the way it seems now its like this:
- For traveling exploration the new system will be worse. You will need to choose between either taking much longer to accomplish the same result as today or simply foregoing all exploration completely while traveling fast.
- For full detail scanning systems the new mechanics should be much faster compared to today.
- If you want to full detail scan plus probe all worlds in a system then the new mechanics will take MUCH longer to complete than it does to 100% a system today. This is due to the probing minigame taking longer to complete than detail scanning today does.
If you like to look at every system map while traveling then there is no two ways about it, the new system will take longer than live does today. How much longer is up to whether or not the FSS can be accessed while the FSD is charging.
I still believe a compromise about the honk providing a grey globe system map in 3.3 is the best solution. It preserves some semblance of traveling exploration while not ruining the new mechanics in any way. Plus its just better to have multiple tools at our disposal than forcing one specific way to do everything, as this would help to reduce burn out from doing the same one thing over and over again all of the time.
Compromise is always the answer. Unless for some reason you want to force feed players this stuff.
The new
Grinding to see the system map is just wrong.
If gameplay is grind then Space Engine is for you.