The price of being a 'Rockstar'

[Old Duck]

I think the cop out is comparing a menial job with no skill involved with a highly technical, specialized or dangerous labor.

I dunno.. I get where you are coming from, because this was my thinking for years (I too have felt the burnout of software development), but my thinking has evolved over time, and what I see is an upside-down valuation of labor. I now live in farm country, and farmers work just as hard and face the same "crunch times" (usually driven by seasons and weather) that I did as a software developer. It's a different type of work - it's more physically stressful and usually less mentally stressful, something that many would consider a "menial" job, but stop and consider the following.

Where would you be without food?

I love video games, movies, and other entertainment, but these products are truly trivial in comparison to the end result of "menial" work like farming, carpentry, etc. I will never again belittle a "menial" job, whereas I have significantly less respect for the guy who throws a leather egg in a field of fake grass for millions of dollars a year, or the actor / actress who think they are little gods deserving worship (Emmys, Grammys, etc).

And last I checked, the average software developer has a much higher income than the average farmer.

 

[Demascus]

I work 60 plus hours a week, hell my Sundays are often a 16 hour shift. It's called having a job and being an "adult". Rule of thumb: life is unfair, your probably not going to get your dream job, someone always has it worse than you.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I think the cop out is comparing a menial job with no skill involved with a highly technical, specialized or dangerous labor.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Also as someone who has done both, comparing the "rigors" of any desk job with actual grueling, physical work in dangerous environments is pretty silly.

Should skilled office jobs pay well?
Sure, but don't cry how tough you have it when you work for the leader in your industry, and are expected to work longer hours.
That is normal, and unions certainly don't "solve" that.

 

[Demascus]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Also as someone who has done both, comparing the "rigors" of any desk job with actual grueling, physical work in dangerous environments is pretty silly.

Should skilled office jobs pay well?
Sure, but don't cry how tough you have it when you work for the leader in your industry, and are expected to work longer hours.
That is normal, and unions certainly don't "solve" that.

Dear God all of this, yes and thank you!
+rep

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Its the other way around: menial jobs such as burger flipping should suffer relatively little due to a lack of proper working conditions. Consider Asian $1 T-shirt sweatshops. So using McD as an example is in your favor, as it is a job biased towards not needing unions (and thus profiting from de-regulating). The fact that it doesn't support your claim makes it even more difficult for you to maintain your position. In any case, I think we'd best leave it. You're ignoring more and more arguments and replacing them with snappy one-liners, which suggests you'd rather not further discuss this in any serious way. Which is fine, beta is coming and all that.

The TV industry works longer hours, for longer stretches, and they are unionized.

It's a red herring.

Also, McDonalds doesn't have the sort of seasonal deadlines like the entertainment industries do.

 

[Fishy]

don't cry how tough you have it when you work for the leader in your industry, and are expected to work longer hours.

Well, it might be different across the atlantic, but over here we have labour laws. And Lady Law is painfully blind: she doesn't care whether your job is nice or tedious, relaxing or grueling. If her laws are broken, redress and compensation are in order, without any thoughts over the fact that other people have it worse somewhere else. Being expected to work long hours can be fine if it's in accordance with the legal framework, offers the proper compensation in terms of pay, working breaks, paid leave, etc. At the end of the days it's a... well, complicated picture, and it tends to be stretched to the limit by some employers, be it accidentally/temporarily/out of necessity (typical for startups) or deliberately: typically a long-fostered corporate culture (Rockstar seems to fit that one, although it might be perfectly legal where they operate) or, more cynically for jobs lower down the food chain, taking advantage of uneducated workers that don't know their rights. Again, I know precious little about the US so maybe your unions are a variant of the Mob but over here, 90% of a union's work is to inform workers of their rights, mediating personal cases with employers, and providing legal assistance if/when the dispute escalates that far.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Well, it might be different across the atlantic, but over here we have labour laws. And Lady Law is painfully blind: she doesn't care whether your job is nice or tedious, relaxing or grueling. If her laws are broken, redress and compensation are in order, without any thoughts over the fact that other people have it worse somewhere else. Being expected to work long hours can be fine if it's in accordance with the legal framework, offers the proper compensation in terms of pay, working breaks, paid leave, etc. At the end of the days it's a... well, complicated picture, and it tends to be stretched to the limit by some employers, be it accidentally/temporarily/out of necessity (typical for startups) or deliberately: typically a long-fostered corporate culture or, more cynically for jobs lower down the food chain, taking advantage of uneducated workers that don't know their rights. Again, I know precious little about the US so maybe your unions are a variant of the Mob but over here, 90% of a union's work is to inform workers of their rights, mediating personal cases with employers, and providing legal assistance if/when the dispute escalates that far.

Ummm...

Rockstar Games, Inc. (sometimes referred to as Rockstar NYC) is an American video game publisher, best known for their Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead, Midnight Club, Max Payne, The Warriors, Bully, and Manhunt games.

Based in New York City...

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Rockstar_games.html


I already pointed out the TV industry is unionized, and they work longer hours.

Have you ever watched Hawaii 5-0?
They do 60+ hours all season, while filming.
And guess what?
The union guys love it!
That means they get paid more.
They don't want to work 40 hrs because they don't get OT pay.
Some guys don't even work the set up and wrap phases, because since they are not shooting, they don't get OT.

I am certain Rockstar was clear about people needing to work extended hours during hiring.
All that stuff that gets asked about dedication and passion isn't lip service.

You might as well bring up the lack of labor laws entirely in third world countries, for all the relevance your post has to Rockstar.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Maybe we ought to head over to the bug reports and see how those labor laws are working out for Elite/FDev?

Perhaps that is just the problem!
Fishy, I think you've nailed it.

 

[Fishy]

I said it myself in the post you were too quick to quote, so you missed the quick edit: in Rockstar's case, it might well be perfectly legal so well, tough luck. They should have read their contracts better before signing them. But I vehemently disagree with your assertion that people shouldn't complain based on having a job perceived as privileged. If their rights are being violated, people should have the right to voice their complaint and to escalate to a legal dispute if needed. Irrespective of whether the job is taking place in a cushy setting or in the midst of hazardous materials. And unions having been mentioned as irrelevant/useless for a few pages now, I'm taking the opportunity to point out that this is something that they typically help with: knowing your rights and exercising them. As you identify yourself, unions aren't about working half the time and less efficiently as it's been suggested a few pages ago in this very thread.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I said it myself in the post you were too quick to quote, so you missed the quick edit: in Rockstar's case, it might well be perfectly legal so well, tough luck. They should have read their contracts better before signing them. But I vehemently disagree with your assertion that people shouldn't complain based on having a job perceived as privileged. If their rights are being violated, people should have the right to voice their complaint and to escalate to a legal dispute if needed. Irrespective of whether the job is taking place in a cushy setting or in the midst of hazardous materials. And unions having been mentioned as irrelevant/useless for a few pages now, I'm taking the opportunity to point out that this is something that they typically help with: knowing your rights and exercising them. As you identify yourself, unions aren't about working half the time and less efficiently as it's been suggested a few pages ago in this very thread.

You are mistating my point.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I said it myself in the post you were too quick to quote, so you missed the quick edit: in Rockstar's case, it might well be perfectly legal so well, tough luck. They should have read their contracts better before signing them. But I vehemently disagree with your assertion that people shouldn't complain based on having a job perceived as privileged. If their rights are being violated, people should have the right to voice their complaint and to escalate to a legal dispute if needed. Irrespective of whether the job is taking place in a cushy setting or in the midst of hazardous materials. And unions having been mentioned as irrelevant/useless for a few pages now, I'm taking the opportunity to point out that this is something that they typically help with: knowing your rights and exercising them. As you identify yourself, unions aren't about working half the time and less efficiently as it's been suggested a few pages ago in this very thread.

I also think you mean your hasty post was hasty and irrelevant?

Was I supposed to anticipate your edit?
You aren't actually responding logically to anything I've written.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I work 60 plus hours a week, hell my Sundays are often a 16 hour shift. It's called having a job and being an "adult". Rule of thumb: life is unfair, your probably not going to get your dream job, someone always has it worse than you.

I work 4 hours a day and I feel way better than I did when I worked during weekends.

Yes, you can have a job and be an adult. Don't need to hate yourself that much though.

 

[digitalblade]

Report for misleading title I generally thought the talk will be about Rockstars not employees of Rockstar. Guys their name is a lie they are not real a Rockstar. What did you think working for them would be like?

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I work 4 hours a day and I feel way better than I did when I worked during weekends.

Yes, you can have a job and be an adult. Don't need to hate yourself that much though.

It depends, given the right country, right industry, and right age the business case is there to work a lot and earn enough for investing or starting an own business. At the end I also prefer having a proper (family) life wthan a career.

 

[Old Duck]

It depends, given the right country, right industry, and right age the business case is there to work a lot and earn enough for investing or starting an own business. At the end I also prefer having a proper (family) life than a career.

Amen! One of the reasons I became a minimalist is because nobody needs to work more than 40 hours a week to live, once they realize they don't need a giant house and a new vehicle for every family member and fancy restaurant food every week and a top-tier gaming rig to run ED with ultra settings. Most people don't "own" stuff, but rather are they are slaves to their stuff. But I better stop now, or I'll end up preaching an entire sermon on the "sins of consumerism" [haha]

 

[Demascus]

Amen! One of the reasons I became a minimalist is because nobody needs to work more than 40 hours a week to live, once they realize they don't need a giant house and a new vehicle for every family member and fancy restaurant food every week and a top-tier gaming rig to run ED with ultra settings. Most people don't "own" stuff, but rather are they are slaves to their stuff. But I better stop now, or I'll end up preaching an entire sermon on the "sins of consumerism" [haha]

I agree in principle. You don't need a fancy car, a big house or latest and best gaming rig. I do however want those things and I am willing to work hard to get and own those things. It's the people that believe they deserve or are owed things just because they are a living breathing human that bug me.(other than human rights and freedoms of course)

 

[Ian Skippy]

Ummm...




https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Rockstar_games.html


I already pointed out the TV industry is unionized, and they work longer hours.

Have you ever watched Hawaii 5-0?
They do 60+ hours all season, while filming.
And guess what?
The union guys love it!
That means they get paid more.
They don't want to work 40 hrs because they don't get OT pay.
Some guys don't even work the set up and wrap phases, because since they are not shooting, they don't get OT.

I am certain Rockstar was clear about people needing to work extended hours during hiring.
All that stuff that gets asked about dedication and passion isn't lip service.

You might as well bring up the lack of labor laws entirely in third world countries, for all the relevance your post has to Rockstar.

If you read the article you'll find one of issues explicitly mentioned is that rockstar did not inform potential employees beforehand. Unions dont exist to shower employees with undeserved gifts or some such notion some Americans have. They serve to make sure agreements are made within the law, and then kept.

If you agree to work 40 hours, then accept having to work 60-80 hours without additional payment, for a company that makes hundreds of millions you are a sucker. It is wrong, not macho. You should stand up for your rights and demand what has been agreed upon. And if that requires unions, so be it.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Amen! One of the reasons I became a minimalist is because nobody needs to work more than 40 hours a week to live, once they realize they don't need a giant house and a new vehicle for every family member and fancy restaurant food every week and a top-tier gaming rig to run ED with ultra settings. Most people don't "own" stuff, but rather are they are slaves to their stuff. But I better stop now, or I'll end up preaching an entire sermon on the "sins of consumerism" [haha]

Eight years ago I came home after working abroad, and a five months round-the-world trip. Since I was single, I could take the risk to start a business and surviving on little money.

Now I'm married and the third kid is on the way. The business failed three years ago, so I succumbed to slavery at a large company, in fact I could barely save my career as where I live failed entrepreneurs worth biowaste on the job market.

I need this compromise to provide relatively OK income for their needs, on the other hand yes, I do allow myself the luxury of driving my old V8 and actually having a good gaming rig.
The needs include proper housing and comfort, but I'm also saving and investing (on the stock market) whatever I can in order to provide a cushion and also future opportunities for the children (education, travelling...). Saving means we don't eat out often and completely avoid the biggest money sink: expensive family holidays. When the kids get into the age, I will buy camping gear though.

TL;DR: Balancing and compromise do rewrite some ideals.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

At least there are no suicide nets, like Foxcom/ apple

I think Apple/Foxcom completely misunderstand the term "safety nets" for employees.

 

[Mole HD]

Seemingly the grinding down of their employees paid off for Rockstar...RDR2 netted $725 million in the first 3 days