Why lift the restriction on passenger ships?

[Sylveria]

I've never even looked at the, dolphin, orca or beluga, how will this change make them good explorers exactly?
And would it be worth trading my anaconda for one?

More optional slots available for utilization for other purposes. Period.

Exploration requires more internals vs weapon hardpoints for combat ships. Internals were being restricted for "cargo" purposes (passengers or trade) and now that's being lifted they can be assigned for other things like AFMU's etc.

 

[RamirezKurita]

As long as they strip a few weapon hardpoints off each to balance it- sure. I didn't see any more weapon hardpoints being added to the Passenger ships to make them more viable for combat purposes, after all.

There's a clear difference in the design of a ship when it comes to purpose- and all the restriction for Passenger ships served was to keep it from ever being viable at anything but hauling passengers. (which it was mediocre at best, considering the Luxury passenger missions imbalance for time investment vs economy)

Other multirole class vessels don't have that problem. Ask an Anaconda.

They aren't getting any additional hardpoints, but relaxing the limitations on their slots does make them better combat ships. The Orca will now be able to equip class 6 shields as opposed to class 5s, as well as having much more internal space for shield reinforcements and shield cells rather than being limited exclusively to the hull stuff. The Beluga won't get any bigger shields, but would benefit greatly in terms of extra SCBs and SRPs.

Granted, I don't think it'll make them into high-end combat ships, but it'll make them serviceable combat freighters for those that mostly only have SK ships in their fleet. Good enough for a spot of bounty hunting, but not really CZ material.

 

[Sylveria]

They aren't getting any additional hardpoints, but relaxing the limitations on their slots does make them better combat ships. The Orca will now be able to equip class 6 shields as opposed to class 5s, as well as having much more internal space for shield reinforcements and shield cells rather than being limited exclusively to the hull stuff. The Beluga won't get any bigger shields, but would benefit greatly in terms of extra SCBs and SRPs.

Granted, I don't think it'll make them into high-end combat ships, but it'll make them serviceable combat freighters for those that mostly only have SK ships in their fleet. Good enough for a spot of bounty hunting, but not really CZ material.

I disagree that it makes them "better combat ships" but rather - "better at self defense", perhaps. Nothing wrong with giving ships that don't directly engage in combat better defensive capability...

You know, similar to what "military slots" for direct combat ships (i.e., those with lots of hardpoint options...) serves now.

 

[RamirezKurita]

I disagree that it makes them "better combat ships" but rather - "better at self defense", perhaps. Nothing wrong with giving ships that don't directly engage in combat better defensive capability...

You know, similar to what "military slots" for direct combat ships (i.e., those with lots of hardpoint options...) serves now.

It only improves their defensive capabilities when then fully spec into in, sacrificing their passenger or cargo bays. For this reason, it doesn't increase their abilities to defend themselves when they are actually doing non-combat activities, a trader or passenger (or anywhere in-between) SK ship would be as vulnerable as ever; however, a SK ship specced for combat wouldn't be defending itself, its more likely to be the aggressor as that's the only thing a combat-specced ship can do - no point flying around between stations waiting for an enemy to engage if you aren't carrying any payload after all. It improves their maximum combat potential, but does nothing for their minimum combat potential that self-defence requires.

 

[Sylveria]

It only improves their defensive capabilities when then fully spec into in, sacrificing their passenger or cargo bays. For this reason, it doesn't increase their abilities to defend themselves when they are actually doing non-combat activities, a trader or passenger (or anywhere in-between) SK ship would be as vulnerable as ever; however, a SK ship specced for combat wouldn't be defending itself, its more likely to be the aggressor as that's the only thing a combat-specced ship can do - no point flying around between stations waiting for an enemy to engage if you aren't carrying any payload after all. It improves their maximum combat potential, but does nothing for their minimum combat potential that self-defence requires.

So what exactly are you saying? That the passenger cargo restrictions should be converted to Military slot restrictions instead? Not sure I'm understanding the issue, here.

The only "purpose" the restricted slots for passenger ships served was to ensure that only those ships could equip Luxury cabins. That's it, that's all. And it backfired as soon as "meta" came into play with Economy missions and stacking with Anacondas and the like. They could simply equip not only more of those cabins, but also make credits more efficiently while sacrificing nothing by way of defensive or offensive ability in comparison to Passenger vessels.

I'm still not understanding how lifting those restrictions somehow "imbalances" the rest... which is what most of the discord over the change has fostered thus far. If they'd given PAX ships more offensive capability by way of weapon hardpoints, this would likely be a completely different conversation in which I'd simply concede they'd gone a bit too far in relaxing restrictions.

Instead it's coming across as "boo hoo Frontier has turned PAX vessels into UBERPWN combat vessels!!!!" and I'm simply LMFAO at the supposed "indignation" being suffered here.

 

[M00ka]

I don't see why everyone is so upset, it's not as FD has banned the installation of Luxury Cabins in the SK ships, just hasn't made them mandatory. For me, it now allows me to use the Orca as a pretty decent exploration ship, something that would never have happened before the nerf/buff (depending on which side of the fence you sit on).

 

[RamirezKurita]

So what exactly are you saying? That the passenger cargo restrictions should be converted to Military slot restrictions instead? Not sure I'm understanding the issue, here.

The only "purpose" the restricted slots for passenger ships served was to ensure that only those ships could equip Luxury cabins. That's it, that's all. And it backfired as soon as "meta" came into play with Economy missions and stacking with Anacondas and the like. They could simply equip not only more of those cabins, but also make credits more efficiently while sacrificing nothing by way of defensive or offensive ability in comparison to Passenger vessels.

I'm still not understanding how lifting those restrictions somehow "imbalances" the rest... which is what most of the discord over the change has fostered thus far. If they'd given PAX ships more offensive capability by way of weapon hardpoints, this would likely be a completely different conversation in which I'd simply concede they'd gone a bit too far in relaxing restrictions.

Instead it's coming across as "boo hoo Frontier has turned PAX vessels into UBERPWN combat vessels!!!!" and I'm simply LMFAO at the supposed "indignation" being suffered here.

What I'm saying is that the unrestriction of their slots does nothing to help "normal" passenger or even cargo builds defend themselves, but it does improve the ability for them to go for combat loads themselves if they want to be the ones to pick fights. This is not a bad thing, I'm massively in favour of them getting combat opened up to them a bit more.

I'm personally in favour of unrestricting slots unless they are explicitly required to prevent a ship from becoming overpowered for certain roles. Restricting slots because of a simplistic design vision on a ship simultaneously reduces depth as well adds complexity as it reduces viable options while adding additional overhead of objectively poor options. Restricted slots should be used to add options, not take them away like they have done with the SK ships.

To be honest, even with these slots being opened up, I'm still suspecting that the SK ships might end up being underpowered for the majority of tasks. They will certainly become more combat capable and I can see how their exploration potential will be improved, but I still feel that they are going to underperform compared to most of their similarly priced peers for the majority of tasks.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I've never even looked at the, dolphin, orca or beluga, how will this change make them good explorers exactly?
And would it be worth trading my anaconda for one?

The anaconda is essentially so OP it's broken. The Devs have as good as admitted it.
IF your question is "is it as good a multirole as the conda" then the answer will likely always be a no.
The fault here however is not with all the other ships, it is with the conda .

I have one but it is gathering dust now. I got tired of conda beats everything in game so I tend to use everything BUT the conda

 

[Liberalguy]

I like the ideas others have proposed of giving specialty ships bonuses when equipping modules of their type (ie 6.5 size passenger cabin on an Orca, aka more seats from the same passenger cabin size compared to when equipped on a multipurpose ship). I’m glad FD is relaxing the limitations now though. Maybe I’ll park my anaconda and try a beluga or orca soon...

Also, I’ve always thought luxury passengers should pay out waaay more credits than all others. And there should always be luxury passenger missions.

 

[Red River]

it's just odd to see a ship like dolphin or orca become biowaste couriers. there's multirole and transport ships for that...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

it's just odd to see a ship like dolphin or orca become biowaste couriers. there's multirole and transport ships for that...

It's odd to see a Saleen S7 at a grocery store too, but it happens.

 

[Oss133]

It's odd to see a Saleen S7 at a grocery store too, but it happens.

What, regularly? Where on earth is this grocery store? It's certainly never happened at ours.

 

[Factabulous]

I don't see why everyone is so upset, it's not as FD has banned the installation of Luxury Cabins in the SK ships, just hasn't made them mandatory. For me, it now allows me to use the Orca as a pretty decent exploration ship, something that would never have happened before the nerf/buff (depending on which side of the fence you sit on).

Yup - I was looking at building a Beluga into an exploration ship last night - just headed out in a Krait, but had to leave the repair limpets behind as I ran out of slots. With the Beluga de-restricted it makes more sense and I seem to recall it being a nice handling ship, so if I can engineer it for low temperature I could be heading out on my next trip in style.

Quite a difference from my previous DBX fave

 

[insanephoton]

What, regularly? Where on earth is this grocery store? It's certainly never happened at ours.

I've never seen them do a car yet, but both Aldi and Lidl have all sorts of random stuff in their weekly deals.

 

[CMDR-AD]

deleted

 

[Tifu]

it's just odd to see a ship like dolphin or orca become biowaste couriers. there's multirole and transport ships for that...

They're very fast and agile and have excellent SC manuevrability. Even the Beluga is supposed to be the most nimble big ship in SC.

 

[Havvk]

Would you like to buy a car, and told you can only use the front seats, however if you are carrying sacks of rice, you may use the rear seats, but only if there is an R in the month, and if it is a Full moon in Borneo!

recap in ED terms, I buy an Orca ship, i want to put what i want in it, and that goes for all restricted slots in ships

Stop buying a Ferrari and expecting to drive it like a Ford F150, pulling trailers and stuff

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Stop buying a Ferrari and expecting to drive it like a Ford F150, pulling trailers and stuff

i dunno what you mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIIPHynRCog

(I do actually agree with you in general)

 

[h347h]

The restricted modules are supposed to represent a role for a ship. People wanted more role definition for ships a fee years ago.

It was nice because it balanced out ships so they couldn't stack modules making other ships competitive in their roles while making sure multi purpose ships weren't going to be the kings of Elite.

It IMHO was a great step forward in making the game more interesting.

I hope they don't go through with this because it's just one more drop in the bucket for making things more bland.

 

[Red Anders]

The restricted modules are supposed to represent a role for a ship. People wanted more role definition for ships a fee years ago.

It was nice because it balanced out ships so they couldn't stack modules making other ships competitive in their roles while making sure multi purpose ships weren't going to be the kings of Elite.

It IMHO was a great step forward in making the game more interesting.

I hope they don't go through with this because it's just one more drop in the bucket for making things more bland.

Role definition is still there because the dedicated passenger ships are still the only shps that can equip VIP cabins.

BUT...BUT... THERE ARE HARDLY ANY VIP MISSIONS ON THE BOARDS!!!1ONE!!!1

That's right. So perhaps that's the 'problem' that needs to be 'fixed'.