Why don't we get rid of all specialised compartments?

Since the passenger ships change (great move, by the way, IMHO), I'm thinking, why don't we get rid of the military compartments too? It should bring more variety in builds and nobody will have anything to complain, because they can keep their HRPs if the still want them. I love ships with many optional slots.

What do you think?

Specialized slots were added to increase variety while keeping ships balanced. Before that, everybody was flying either a Python, an Asp X or a Conda.
Mind you, when I say they were added, I mean added. Not just the specialized slot mechanic, but also the slots themselves. So if you get rid of the special restrictions, you need to also look at a way of keeping the balance of things or else you will remove ship variety all for the sake of improving build variety of a few ships. And you would need to address the new old complaints that every ship is the same, which is what we complained about before FD added those slots you want to remove.
 
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I rather like my restricted slots (Chieftain).

I'm out on Gnosis - but from any base - mixing roles between exploration, surface exploration, mining, bounty hunting and at the moment trading. I enjoy refitting for roles between flights and having such a lean ship. Basically only three options slots to play with after cargo rack and shields, more often to not I restrict even that to two, because I add a docking computer for style points.

It makes my base a real base and makes each flight out something unique to plan for. As a commander I get why people want all things for all ships but in the end working within restrictions makes things interesting imo.
 
Specialized slots were added to increase variety while keeping ships balanced. Before that, everybody was flying either a Python, an Asp X or a Conda.
the only thing that didn't make any sense regarding that: the conda got one military slot too and ist still the
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of Elite Dangerous
 
OOhhhh my Cutter gets an extra 64 tonnes of cargo space!

Honestly I can't think of a good reason not too. But I'm sure there are... :S

Frontier is long overdue, removing cabin restricted compartments for stuff like the Beluga is a start but anything restricted is stupid. Just allow combat ships to freely put whatever they want in the military compartments, allow passenger / tourism / exploration ships to put whatever they want in place of stupid forced cabins, allow traders to put whatever they want in their ship. You can just simply do stuff like make it so only Dolphin/Orca/Beluga able to EQUIP luxury cabins whereas other ships cannot. Can make it so combat ships can choose to fit extra armor or module protection in their slots (or not). But forcing the slot into a specific config makes no sense in such a vast stretch of space, especially since us PILOTS FEDERATION pilots aka the ideal of ideal pilots among all the spaceway scrubs, are supposed to be the most versatile with our ships.

It's just bad game design.
 
Get rid of them completely - I tried to build a T10 miner for the new update - restricted compartments are severely limiting.

I mean it's hardly a Military ship - is it?
 
Bad idea. The reason why they were given this slots was because multirole ships were better at combat, because they could fill their optional with HRPs, MRPs and shield cell banks with all those optional compartments.

If you remove those restrictions, the combat ships now become better multirole ships then the multirole ships.

It is an unfortunate by product of HRPs, MRPs, and shield cell banks. If we remove all of those, then the combat ships can just have those slots removed entirely.

This, period.
 
My preferred solution would have been not to have bothered with any of those hit point inflators at all.

The problem is big ships suffer without those. Smaller ships don't really run into the problem but with all the Engineering stuff, especially weapons, big ships without oodles of shield boosters, module reinforcements, and hull reinforcements are basically sitting ducks, even some of the more skilled FA off pilots would be in trouble since the target of a powerplant on a big, slow turning Big 3 makes them vulnerable to even most medium ships like the Federal bloats. They'd be sitting ducks with zero reason to ever fly out of the dock unless you were in Solo or Private groups.

Despite many would like an alternative plan, unless a 100% overhaul of the current systems for outfitting gear, engineers, everything, are done... gimping the Shield Boosters, SCBs, HRPs, MRPs would only cripple a big ship while having a minor impact for most small and medium.
 
Said it before but I'm all for the idea of removing restricted slots, but....

Doing so would require a serious "balancing pass" to ensure it had no unintended consequences.

FDev would need to come up with a variety of other "soft limitations" on ships to ensure strange things didn't happen.

For example, they might decide to add some kind of "hull stress" variable to ensure ships can't fit a lot of heavy modules.
Alternatively, maybe there could be some kind of "CPU load" variable to limit how many "clever modules" (things like limpet controllers) get fitted.
Perhaps the power consumption of various modules could be adjusted to create soft limitations too.

Any new variables would apply to all modules so, for example, you could build a T10 with a heap of limpet controllers but they'd ramp-up the CPU load so you definitely couldn't also fit a bunch of turreted weapons cos there wouldn't be enough remaining CPU power available to control them.


Overall, the vast majority of ships aren't horrifically broken so it's not something that needs doing urgently.
If it was up to me, I'd create a small team within FDev, give them a spreadsheet of all the ship stats and data and get them working on it, part-time, whenever they weren't busy on something else.
While they were doing that, they could also get rid of all the hidden "fiddle factors" that ship have too, so that ships with similar characteristics have similar levels of performance in a given area.
 
Empty slots being available for an experienced player is a good thing. Inexperienced player will eventually learn that. Having slots mandated for a particular use, doesn't give an experience player any options. A passenger ship which is designed in part to haul passenger's and doesn't really need "Miliary" mandated slots. Having the slots available, one can choose to install a "Military" mod or not. It should be up to the individual player to choose. And experience is the best teacher when it comes to that. Not FDEV!
 
Empty slots being available for an experienced player is a good thing. Inexperienced player will eventually learn that. Having slots mandated for a particular use, doesn't give an experience player any options. A passenger ship which is designed in part to haul passenger's and doesn't really need "Miliary" mandated slots. Having the slots available, one can choose to install a "Military" mod or not. It should be up to the individual player to choose. And experience is the best teacher when it comes to that. Not FDEV!

Restricted slots don't exist to help inexperienced players. Restricted slots exist to restrict your build options, so that you actually have a choice to make when it comes to picking a ship. It's a balance question. Giving more options doesn't lead to more choice if those options aren't properly balanced. Outright removing restricted slots across the board without finding a replacement mechanic to fulfil their function makes no sense. And for what? Noone has given a proper reason why restricted slots are a bad thing.
 
They could offer a "B" or civilian version of the ship with no restricted module slots but less base armor and shields.
 
Forget specialised slots - just modify the capability of modules, or their effect on the ship, depending on the hull they are installed into.
 
Bad idea. The reason why they were given this slots was because multirole ships were better at combat, because they could fill their optional with HRPs, MRPs and shield cell banks with all those optional compartments.

If you remove those restrictions, the combat ships now become better multirole ships then the multirole ships.

It is an unfortunate by product of HRPs, MRPs, and shield cell banks. If we remove all of those, then the combat ships can just have those slots removed entirely.

As far as I can see, adding an extra 4-64 tonnes of cargo capacity to the combat ships won't make any of them better multiroles than the multirole ships, it would simply close the gap a bit. Even the most multirole-like of the military ships (The aChieftain and the FDS) still would only just begin to reach multirole levels of effectiveness as traders with their slots opened up. The large military ships (which are already multirole ships) would benefit from a little bit of extra cargo capacity, but would still be vastly overshadowed by the T9 in terms of cost effectiveness(and in absolute effectiveness for all except the Cutter).

FD's implementation of specialised slots has been very poor in the beginning; it has discouraged experimentation, added complexity while also simultaneously reducing depth. If they were to add role-specific compartments like military slots or the economic slots on the PAX ships, then they should have been used to shore up issues and open up new builds without overpowering them in other roles rather than restricting entire ships to particular roles. That all being said, one of the major design goals of the military compartments was to indirectly nerf the FDL via general powercreep, and opening them up isn't going to change that goal.

Personally, I feel that specialised slots would work better if they were restricted by a theme rather than a role, for example having "electrical" restricted slots that have the necessary power and data conduits to use things like shield cells and advanced computer equipment or "accessible" restricted slots that only have the bare minimum data and power connections but are fully plugged into our ships internal conveyor networks for use with things like cargo bays. The simplest slots would be "structural", which would only be usable with things like HRPs as they have no notable interaction with the rest of the ship systems. This would allow for large amount of flexibility and choice, while also keeping unique flavour for each ship as each ship would still have very different strengths and achieve its goal by different methods.
 
Said it before but I'm all for the idea of removing restricted slots, but....

Doing so would require a serious "balancing pass" to ensure it had no unintended consequences.

The game is in need of a serious balance pass regardless, because the slots themselves had unintended negative consequences.

Military slots are primarily for HRPs. Even though they can be used for banks and MRPs, those items are usually best placed in other slots because most military slots are either insufficient in size or don't allow for intelligent module protection stacking. It's generally a space for hull boosting that gives ships a major combat advantage. The original reason these slots were given to us was so that combat ships could retain their hull boost and then have room for cargo, because most missions and engineering mods back then required ships to have free cargo space. It also provided room for the new MRP module that was needed after realizing the unintended consequences of weapon and hull power creep. Hull tanks had become completely worthless.

It was a choice that solved the problem certain ships were facing, but created new and unanticipated problems of which I think Frontier only recently acknowledged: Health Disparity between PvE players and engineered PvP players. The difference is quite staggering, where one can usually soak up 10 times more firepower than the other. This doesn't do well to create an inviting environment for newer players. They feel incentivized to hide in solo, download hacks, whine about griefers, and combat log. That's a shame.

Their alternative choices could have been:

a) Give all ships a permanent base amount of cargo space without requiring a module for it.
b) Increase core hull values while decreasing Hull and HRP engineering mods.
c) Not provide cargo for rewards and remove cargo requirements for engineering mods (Was Done Later)
d) Adjust core module health values, perhaps further enhanced integrity benefits for B grade modules.
e) Revert power creep and hull tank nullifying special effects.
f) Enhance base shielding while reducing shield mods by a lesser extent.
g) Completely changing the function of shield boosters to be module shields (MRPS), then removing MRPs and enhancing base shields further to compensate.

What negative unintended consequences could be produced from any of these alternative solutions? I really can't think of any, but I can think of a lot of positive benefits.
 
I'm perfectly fine with Military Slots as they are. I often find a need a place to put a shield cell battery anyways, and where better than a slot that only accepts these?
I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more Military Modules though - Weapons Magazine comes to mind, increase your total ammo capacity. Stealth module to cut your heat production by a flat 5, 10, 15 or 20% based on size. Frequency Jammer to make a 2km radius around you a mobile "Hazardous" zone (no calls for help/to the police) while in range.

Just a few thoughts there.
 
Why do ships like the Baluga have hard points? Surely it is a passenger liner !

Ships of that kind should be specialized for what they do such as faster with longer jump range and stronger armour and shields etc no guns.

Meh I dunno just doesn't make sense to me.
 
Why do ships like the Baluga have hard points? Surely it is a passenger liner !

Ships of that kind should be specialized for what they do such as faster with longer jump range and stronger armour and shields etc no guns.

Meh I dunno just doesn't make sense to me.

You dont have to fit them, save the mass and go faster and jump further.

But yes, lets remove the hardpoints from all but the combat ships, and cargo racks from all but the cargo ships.
 
You dont have to fit them, save the mass and go faster and jump further.

But yes, lets remove the hardpoints from all but the combat ships, and cargo racks from all but the cargo ships.

When you think about it what is the point of a T9 having guns? It's not like it is going to be able to defend itself against a wing, it really needs armour/shields and speed and SLF's to aid the escape.
 
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