Not to sound ungrateful, but no love for LEP?

[Archvillain]

This is like saying you bought something at a shop at 3-4 times the price it should be, and so the company did right by you because they delivered a product. Sure if you're that short-sighted on it, I'm sure you think you did well out of the deal.

Nope. It's nothing like that at all. The fact that you misguidedly think that describes the LEP is your mistake. Since you talk about it being a "deal" instead of a LEP, then let's examine it in terms of a "deal":

From basic maths before purchasing, you knew before purchasing that:
1. Using Horizons as an estimate, it would likely take about six years for a (2nd round) LEP to pay for itself, and longer to turn into a "bulk discount", and that there was no guarantee that FDev or Elite would even be in business for that long, so it was a gamble.
2. The LEP would take 20+ years to turn into a "bulk discount" if you're the type of person who waits until games are on sale before purchasing, providing FDev and Elite stayed in business that long.
3. The LEP would never be a "deal" if FDev or Elite goes out of business, which is always a risk in the unstable games insdustry.
4. Today is 2018, which means you haven't even waited long enough for the LEP to pay off under even the best-case scenario yet. The one thing we do know is that FDev is still in business and still updating Elite.

Therefore the only possible grounds for complaining about value right now is if you failed to do your maths.

 

[bitstorm]

I agree. Despite being a Kickstarter backer I stupidly didn't buy my LEP during early development, so bought it during the Aug 2015 resale (for £93 thanks to sneaky currency conversion, instead of £120).

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I'd argue the risk was actually much higher back then. (which was exactly why it cost less)

 

[bitstorm]

Nope. It's nothing like that at all. The fact that you misguidedly think that describes the LEP is your mistake. Since you talk about it being a "deal" instead of a LEP, then let's examine it in terms of a "deal":

From basic maths before purchasing, you knew before purchasing that:
1. Using Horizons as an estimate, it would likely take about six years for a (2nd round) LEP to pay for itself, and longer to turn into a "bulk discount", and that there was no guarantee that FDev or Elite would even be in business for that long, so it was a gamble.
2. The LEP would take 20 years+ to turn into a "bulk discount" if you're the type of person who waits until games are on sale before purchasing.
3. Today is 2018, which means you haven't even waited long enough to evaluate the best-case scenario, but the one thing we do know is that FDev is still in business and still updating Elite.

Therefore the only possible grounds for complaining about value right now is if you failed to do your maths.

On these points, I think your basic assumptions are wrong.

The expansion was £40, Frontier later reduced the RRP to £20. So an estimated calculation to break even for the LEP as you are doing will have essentially doubled post purchase.

Although at this point we don't know how much the 2019/2020 premium content will cost anyway, maybe RRP will be back up to £40. It is unknown at this time.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

On these points, I think your basic assumptions are wrong.

The expansion was £40, Frontier later reduced the RRP to £20. So an estimated calculation to break even for the LEP as you are doing will have essentially doubled post purchase.

Although at this point we don't know how much the 2019/2020 premium content will cost anyway, maybe RRP will be back up to £40. It is unknown at this time.

This. And also, don't forget that it was just before Horizons, the base game hadn't quite been out a year, and one year was the estimated length of a season. The fact horizons was out in the second year made it feel like many of the other expensive features/expansions would be out in similar timescales.

I don't know about anybody else, but I kind of thought we'd have our value already. Again, In not complaining much myself, because as long as certain features arrive, I'm not that bothered when. I do, however, understand why others in the same situation do feel hard done by.

 

[StuartGT]

On these points, I think your basic assumptions are wrong.

The expansion was £40, Frontier later reduced the RRP to £20. So an estimated calculation to break even for the LEP as you are doing will have essentially doubled post purchase.

Although at this point we don't know how much the 2019/2020 premium content will cost anyway, maybe RRP will be back up to £40. It is unknown at this time.

Horizons was £30 to owners of Elite Dangerous

 

[Ian Skippy]

Spending money on stuff that's not yet left the development table is really a bit of a gamble!!

Spending money earlier with a discount in the hopes you would save on the final product is always a gamble, by definition. Whether that is with a LEP, a Season Pass, buying Early Access or any such thing. Which is fine, and sometimes you win while sometimes you lose. What is pretty silly is when people feel entitled to win when gambling. It suggests they don't quite understand what they are doing.

 

[Archvillain]

The expansion was £40, Frontier later reduced the RRP to £20. So an estimated calculation to break even for the LEP as you are doing will have essentially doubled post purchase.

So your complaint is that it might take a long time for a lifetime pass to turn into a bulk-discount deal? I think that should go without saying for a lifetime pass, else the seller screwed up.

I don't know what your plans are, but personally I plan on living for a long long time

(And from day one we always knew that the LEP will almost certainly not ever be a bulk-discount deal compared to using regular deals; just buying updates when they're on sale.)

 

[Thatchinho]

Fair enough and peace brother. I have had my say and will await a response from FD on the promised compensation this year, or not as the case may be.

Thanks, and as it seems to actually be a sensible conversation, I've got a question / point to put your way. (Fully understood though if you've had enough of things for the moment.)

So, my understanding of the general situation with the funding/payment models is as follows.

In the earlier days, when the Seasons model was created, FD weren't on the same financial footing as they are now, and hence they chose to (and to some extent, had to) go with a payment in advance model. So there was Horizons, which was largely payment in advance (depending on whether you bought it before or after release, and if the latter, how long after release).

Now, however, FD are on a much sounder financial footing which enables them to go for a payment on delivery/receipt model for expansions rather than payment in advance. And that from what I've read is the model they intend to change to (or are changing to).

So my question/point is this, if it being a change from the original model is disregarded for the moment, wouldn't you consider payment on delivery/receipt to actually be preferable as the base model for paying for expansions? (I mean in general here of course, as LEP owners have already paid in advance.)

 

[StuartGT]

Personally, I prefer the payment on delivery/receipt model, as opposed to season pass model. I think the majority of the Elite community prefer it too.

LEP I see as different: supporting very long-term development of expansions with the benefit of receiving them all (plus bonus cosmetics as and when) at no further cost.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Thanks, and as it seems to actually be a sensible conversation, I've got a question / point to put your way. (Fully understood though if you've had enough of things for the moment.)

So, my understanding of the general situation with the funding/payment models is as follows.

In the earlier days, when the Seasons model was created, FD weren't on the same financial footing as they are now, and hence they chose to (and to some extent, had to) go with a payment in advance model. So there was Horizons, which was largely payment in advance (depending on whether you bought it before or after release, and if the latter, how long after release).

Now, however, FD are on a much sounder financial footing which enables them to go for a payment on delivery/receipt model for expansions rather than payment in advance. And that from what I've read is the model they intend to change to (or are changing to).

So my question/point is this, if it being a change from the original model is disregarded for the moment, wouldn't you consider payment on delivery/receipt to actually be preferable as the base model for paying for expansions? (I mean in general here of course, as LEP owners have already paid in advance.)

In general yes I do think pay on delivery is superior. I can't speak for others but I gave FD my money because I believed in Brabens vision that he outlined in the pre-launch/alpha vids and wanted to support them. I don't really care about the cash ( I'm fortunately ok on that front), what continues to irk me, as has been alluded to earlier; is that FD often seem to forget they made commitments and need reminding publicly of them; shouldn't have to chase them up.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Ex Military.

You screw up, your whole group pays the price.
Why? Because you should keep each other in line AND consider how your actions will affect others. Case in point: You like to blare your music. Nobody else in your group minds, but this is a violation of regulations. You’re deployed in a combat zone, and continue to blare your music. The enemy can hear your noise at night and uses it to pinpoint your location and shells your camp, killing most of your group. You survive, but have to live with the knowledge you were responsible for this because you can’t follow regulations.

Had your entire group been punished before this, at least one of them may have had the sense to say: “Turn that down before it gives away our position.”

Well an army must be well coordinated or else ☠, however, that's not the case here.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Do you resent the year of free* content ?.

*No additional charge.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Ex Military.

You screw up, your whole group pays the price.
Why? Because you should keep each other in line AND consider how your actions will affect others. Case in point: You like to blare your music. Nobody else in your group minds, but this is a violation of regulations. You’re deployed in a combat zone, and continue to blare your music. The enemy can hear your noise at night and uses it to pinpoint your location and shells your camp, killing most of your group. You survive, but have to live with the knowledge you were responsible for this because you can’t follow regulations.

Had your entire group been punished before this, at least one of them may have had the sense to say: “Turn that down before it gives away our position.”

I think that is more an example of why you should have some minimum requirements before allowing people into the military rather than as a great example why collective punishment supposedly works...

 

[bitstorm]

So your complaint is that it might take a long time for a lifetime pass to turn into a bulk-discount deal? I think that should go without saying for a lifetime pass, else the seller screwed up.

I don't know what your plans are, but personally I plan on living for a long long time

It's more about the game's lifespan than your lifespan. If it was only the player's lifespan that mattered we'd all still be playing manic miner.

For the LEP to have value there's a bunch of factors, not least of which is pace of development.

At the time a 10 year plan was talked about, a seasons model was layed out and a price tag of £40 per season was seen, and so people weighed that up into their purchasing decision.

Yes yes I know people were stupid to beleive that wouldn't all change.

Since then the RRP has halved, halving the value of the LEP. The time between expansions has doubled, halving it again, and Frontier then decided it made sense to switch to a sort of hybrid free to play model and make money off microtransactions, effectively undermining the value of the LEP and putting the "time till break even" you are talking about completely on hold.

The rest involves having to fight for any sort of update on the matter and assurances which don't come to pass, which I won't bore you with.

 

[Gortron]

*No additional charge.

You know thats the only thing that still winds me up about all of this is when they do live streams and keep going on about all the new features being free.

It’s not free when you’ve already paid for it!! Silly I know but every time they do it I mutter something about it not being free. If they said no additional charge it probably wouldn’t bother me. I don’t even resent this year has been “free” lol

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

You know thats the only thing that still winds me up about all of this is when they do live streams and keep going on about all the new features being free.

It’s not free when you’ve already paid for it!! Silly I know but every time they do it I mutter something about it not being free. If they said no additional charge it probably wouldn’t bother me. I don’t even resent this year has been “free” lol

Amen brother.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You know thats the only thing that still winds me up about all of this is when they do live streams and keep going on about all the new features being free.

It’s not free when you’ve already paid for it!! Silly I know but every time they do it I mutter something about it not being free. If they said no additional charge it probably wouldn’t bother me. I don’t even resent this year has been “free” lol

Except you didnt pay for it. When you paid for it you had no idea you would get this too, and a lot of it doesnt even require Horizons.

 

[Stigbob]

You know thats the only thing that still winds me up about all of this is when they do live streams and keep going on about all the new features being free.

It’s not free when you’ve already paid for it!! Silly I know but every time they do it I mutter something about it not being free. If they said no additional charge it probably wouldn’t bother me. I don’t even resent this year has been “free” lol

I don't have an LEP and don't buy cosmetics so its definitely free for me. I'd have no objections at all to another year of free stuff.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

You know thats the only thing that still winds me up about all of this is when they do live streams and keep going on about all the new features being free.

It’s not free when you’ve already paid for it!! Silly I know but every time they do it I mutter something about it not being free. If they said no additional charge it probably wouldn’t bother me. I don’t even resent this year has been “free” lol

I tend to agree...they make out you're supposed to feel grateful for fixing rubbish gameplay mechanics and bugs. The reality is the Beyond update is such that they couldn't charge for it anyway. How would that even work? I still use old mining mechanics and you pay for new ones? That would be a horrible thing for them to maintain. It isn't an expansion, it's addressing issues. They should be apologising for it taking 4 years to fix stuff that should have been done pre-release, not telling you how lucky you are that they aren't charging you for a game you already bought.

 

[Gortron]

Except you didnt pay for it. When you paid for it you had no idea you would get this too, and a lot of it doesnt even require Horizons.

I wouldn’t have paid £100 for premium beta if I’d thought Horizons and a much needed adding of content to the basic game was all I’d be getting by this point in time.

It was to support the development which planned out to be very slow. Anyway, they seem to be back on track so I’m not so bothered at the moment other than when they say “free”.

I don't have an LEP and don't buy cosmetics so its definitely free for me. I'd have no objections at all to another year of free stuff.

Hopefully it will be really expensive then