New Bank Initiative will probably result in nerfing wing missions

[c00ky1970]

Just seen Obsidian Ants video, where he mentions again the IBIFI-thing.

Basically it is advertised as a bank where you can request money and it’s paid to you.

Following the link to the Discord group they host and it explains that how they do it is via the use of the Source-Return missions that the “banker” stacks up and then shares with Wing mates who are invited to their wing.

They add some sort of rules about if you already have lots of money you will probably only get a smaller payout and vice versa for if you are poor, probably to try and show some level of control.

I think that if this takes off, then all FDev will do is nerf these type of Wing missions so the payouts become pitiful to try and disssuade players from doing this.

Advertising this get rich scheme and offering payouts from between 20 - 500 million will only result in nerf hammering in game rewards.

Its a a pity that they decided to industrialise the benefits of Wing mission payment method and advertise it, as it will all end in tears.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Just shows what a crappy implementation Wing Missions was, that this is even a thing.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Even if it's possible: Who'd grind day in day out just to provide transaction services? 10 guys? 20 guys? How many transactions could they provide? How long until they drop out after realizing they better spend their time earning real money instead of slaving for free in a vid game?

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

Heres my issue with this scenario: if credits help retain players, than let it be. If free credits make people quit, then it proves the game is a skinner box without worthwhile content once grinding credits is over with. If people aren't satisfied with what credits buy, and don't play the game for its pure entertainment value, either the game isn't very good or those people would quit anyhow. From a dev perspective, sales are the bottom line. Game sales to newcomer and skin sales to long termers. So let the credits Flow unless the business model is designed to prey on people who are only destined for disappointment.

 

[c00ky1970]

I may be wrong but I know the source and return were lucrative at some point. Heck I helped some of my friends with a 90MCr source and return mission.

But I thought FDev ‘tweaked’ these, both payment wise as well as availability (destination is medium pad only, so no T9/Cutter action).

I went to look at the Discord as it sounded like it was too good to be true, ie. maybe it’s a new ganking meta, but it’s actually a group ‘exploiting’ wing payouts.

They do seem to say that the banker has to get the lucrative payout missions and actually do them, but maybe they have found ‘edge cases’ where they can do the easier ones to rack up the numbers...

In some ways it bothers me, as it is playing the mechanics to an advantage, but in other ways if players feel they need the money to enjoy themselves then do it. I am more concerned that if this gets addressed by Frontier it will affect other players in a negative way. Ie. Even more grind....

 

[StuartGT]

Worrying about hypothetical future situations seems rather fruitless to me.

 

[Chorda]

Unless I'm missing some vital detail, this sounds less like a banking service and more like a charity. Do loanees have to pay it forward by assisting with further wing missions or something?

Also, from what I've seen Wing missions are already pitiful in what they pay compared to their single counterparts.

 

[Havvk]

Even if it's possible: Who'd grind day in day out just to provide transaction services? 10 guys? 20 guys? How many transactions could they provide? How long until they drop out after realizing they better spend their time earning real money instead of slaving for free in a vid game?

Support credit trading then

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Even if it's possible: Who'd grind day in day out just to provide transaction services? 10 guys? 20 guys? How many transactions could they provide? How long until they drop out after realizing they better spend their time earning real money instead of slaving for free in a vid game?

Who's to say anyone is grinding this at all? According the the BGS Worriers, there are bots that can fly fast-tracked merit missions at rates far exceeding what any human can do, and they're using 100's of Cutters to do it. How do we know these folks aren't doing the exact same? Or are even the exact same BGS botters they're so worried about?

 

[c00ky1970]

Worrying about hypothetical future situations seems rather fruitless to me.

Doh! I thought this forum was to either do that or complain about what has already happened! ;-)

 

[pzykozomatik]

Because money is so hard to come by in this game.

 

[Aakkonen]

Because money is so hard to come by in this game.

For some it is. I havent jumped on any gold rushes, i have played bit under 800 hours and still my total assets are under 500 mil.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I have been playing since launch, and the total for both my accounts is about $700 million.

Some of us only play for fun.

 

[DNA-Decay]

I have been playing since launch, and the total for both my accounts is about $700 million.

Some of us only play for fun.

Can confirm:

The True Scientists Have Prevailed.

They treated me the way Ben Franklin was treated before Parliament. You all know how well *that* went...

The Alt Account had an existential crisis.

It then went Japanese (late WW 2, Okinawa style).

It has sold off *everything* except the Asp Explorer, to get back to the bubble. There is no point in having two accounts in Colonia, if my playstyle has been deemed provincial/barbarian.

(Spock voice) Cry, for the murdered modules... Cry for the slaughtered ships...

Only the best engineered modules that could be fitted on Alison were kept.

When we get back, there is Only One Ship: A maxed Python. That's what the game dictates. Only *it* has the slots, the utility points, and the ability to land on medium pads.

No Krait, for I will *die*.

Thanks A Lot, Doctor Balt...err, George Number Three.

On Topic:
Olivia Vespera tried to get a bank going fairly early on in her career. 2016 maybe?
I forget the mechanics of it (they were complex), but I believe that it only failed because of lack of adoption.
Like money (paper / bank accounts / bitcoin) only really has an agreed value because we agree.
I just don't think there's quite enough of us (ED players) to get a weight of numbers to make a bank work properly. As in - interplayer transactions that can be redeemed in game. But points for trying.

Back off topic Anyone who can make sense of Ralph's "for fun" (I think) thread - please be my guest:
Commander-The-Time-Has-Come-Execute-Order-Sixty-Six
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...der-The-Time-Has-Come-Execute-Order-Sixty-Six

 

[Tarman]

I have been playing since launch, and the total for both my accounts is about $700 million.

Some of us only play for fun.

Then ur doing it WROOON - oh wait; no, that's, that's actually the right reason. Carry on. o7

 

[JudeSaint]

I may be wrong but I know the source and return were lucrative at some point. Heck I helped some of my friends with a 90MCr source and return mission.

But I thought FDev ‘tweaked’ these, both payment wise as well as availability (destination is medium pad only, so no T9/Cutter action).

I went to look at the Discord as it sounded like it was too good to be true, ie. maybe it’s a new ganking meta, but it’s actually a group ‘exploiting’ wing payouts.

They do seem to say that the banker has to get the lucrative payout missions and actually do them, but maybe they have found ‘edge cases’ where they can do the easier ones to rack up the numbers...

In some ways it bothers me, as it is playing the mechanics to an advantage, but in other ways if players feel they need the money to enjoy themselves then do it. I am more concerned that if this gets addressed by Frontier it will affect other players in a negative way. Ie. Even more grind....

Uhh ... Its been a while i know but ... the cap has been 50mil for a while. How long ago did you help with a 90mil cred mission?

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Worrying about hypothetical future situations seems rather fruitless to me.

Based on past experience it's not. The cycle is always the same: A get rich scheme is being discovered and spreads under the radar for a while, everything is fine. Then inevitably one or another youtuber makes it public, followed by FD's nerf hammer swiftly. And they usually nerf it stem and root, making whatever it was either completely useless or removing it altogether, long range smuggling anyone ?

 

[RamirezKurita]

Its a a pity that they decided to industrialise the benefits of Wing mission payment method and advertise it, as it will all end in tears.

If a system can be exploited, it will be. It's basic human nature. The real issue here isn't how players are seeking to exploit these problems at an industrial scale, but instead that the problems regarding the sharing of rewards and magical money multiplication exist in the first place. Charity is one thing, but for a player to progress at full pace while giving three additional players a free ride is completely broken.

If this encourages FD to fix wing missions, such as by making the rewards shared rather than multiplied, then it's all good. In fact, it's quite possible that these players are deliberately doing this to draw attention to these issues so that they get resolved; many games have dedicated fans who try to exploit and break them to support the developers in fixing the issues.

 

[GunnerBill]

This sounds too complicated.

Go here at xx o’clock, wing up with them, wait on missions.

Board failure, instancing, real life.

This is not a proper gold rush.

 

[zebcarter]

Well, as someone who made half a billion for his new secondary account last week with wing missions, I might have some up to date insights into this matter:

- the payout is much lower than for normal collect missions. The latter pay about 8 times the value of the goods, while wing missions pay only double since the nerf in July.

- however this is per wing member. So in total it's nearly the same and you can supply two other players quite handily.

- doing these missions with a bot seems highly doubtful to me. Too many hostile ships interdicting. Sometimes two at the same time and I doubt that you can automate such a double interdiction.

- so someone has to do the grind. 50m/h in good cases.

- I doubt that people do this for charity for a prolonged period.

Therefore I strongly assume that this is a freemium business model. First 20m are free, afterwards here is our PayPal account. Not yet of course, but watch what happens once people are jumping on the bandwagon