Petition to remove/rebalance Frag cannons

[Misty_Dark]

i have not done the testing but my buddie fitted with corvette G3 was killed in front of me in less than 20 second by someone using a clipper with frags. basically the clipper got behind him shot his corvette and drop the shields almost instantly, i imagine that the clipper had engineered frags. by the time i notice and was able to turn my ship to my buddy his hull was halfway thru. and once the clipper PK him it just bailed. and i this is usually how frags are used by gankers, they get close to you and out of sights to get real close. basically when i play in open and see a cmdr with frags i kill him asap by ramming and all weapons free.

here is a video of what i usually get to witness and experience against players with frags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDDCHuHHaI8

More missing pieces of information....

Firstly, you have no first hand knowledge of this, that is very obvious here.

Secondly, that video shows a stock standard NPC ship, Expert level, I drop these fast too, without even using frags. so I do not know what to say. even when I went full Beams on my Corvette, such ships did not last long.

Thirdly, your "friends" Corvette, what build was that? what shields and modifications was used? what hull and modifications was used? Was there any hull reinforcements fitted and what modification was it on them? Was shield boosters and what was the modifications on these? For all I know, it could have been a trade corvette, with stock hull, and smallest shield, to maximize cargo space and jump range...


And I do not get how someone can sneak up on your friends, and at point blank range can unleash salvo after salvo... you are not telling the entire story here, which is very evident by the lack of details of the circumstances.

 

[Lestat]

I would like to note on that video it was made before Feb 28, 2017, That ship that being attack was never 100%. So elkiller It best for you to make YOUR OWN videos to prove your point. So what could have been changed in a year Time.

 

[elkiller]

I would like to note on that video it was made before Feb 28, 2017, That ship that being attack was never 100%. So elkiller It best for you to make YOUR OWN videos to prove your point. So what could have been changed in a year Time.

ill see if i can do a video down in the future and do a more popper testing i i can bare the material grind, yes i was aware that the ship was at 30%, like i said that was the video that i found that usually describes my experience with frags. but by all mean if you have the time and want to prove me that wrong make a video yourself showing G5 frags vs a corvette/conda/cutter G3-G5 engineered. I could be wrong but so far for what i have experienced and seen frags seem to need a re balance at minimum it should be looked at by Frontier.

(EDIT)
apparently i wont have to do a video after all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvU8EGkfRk&t=102s

23 seconds to kill a dangerous conda. 0.0

 

[elkiller]

More missing pieces of information....

Firstly, you have no first hand knowledge of this, that is very obvious here.

Secondly, that video shows a stock standard NPC ship, Expert level, I drop these fast too, without even using frags. so I do not know what to say. even when I went full Beams on my Corvette, such ships did not last long.

Thirdly, your "friends" Corvette, what build was that? what shields and modifications was used? what hull and modifications was used? Was there any hull reinforcements fitted and what modification was it on them? Was shield boosters and what was the modifications on these? For all I know, it could have been a trade corvette, with stock hull, and smallest shield, to maximize cargo space and jump range...


And I do not get how someone can sneak up on your friends, and at point blank range can unleash salvo after salvo... you are not telling the entire story here, which is very evident by the lack of details of the circumstances.

well feel free to make a video with G5 Frags vs a corvette/conda/cutter and prove me that im wrong. so far i have gave you numbers and a video reference but here have another and see what lazy excuse you come out with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvU8EGkfRk&t=102s

feel free so see how vindicator Jones melts a dangerous conda in 23 seconds from with doblue shot frags. 1:19- 1:42

 

[elkiller]

so your "evidence" is a fully engineered Vulture with probably fully engineered frags, certainly OC G5 with oversized special, killing an NPC Dropship, Expert level in a high RES? Really?

Do you realize that the NPCs are not engineered at all in Extraction Sites?

And about your buddy, it would be interesting to see what Corvette build he was flying. A bi-weave Vette is cannon fodder, even for a single Pacifier Vulture.
G3 on what? shields? A rated modules? How much hull points? how many shield Mj? Are you sure the Clipper was alone? And even if he was, your pals ship must have been fitted for PvE, so no wonder a dedicated PvP frag build can chew thru his hull in a matter of seconds.

Everyone has the tools to counter this sort of thing, no need to remove anything.

Do the test yourself before claiming stuff please.

fortunately vindicator jones save me the hustle and grind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvU8EGkfRk&t=102s

enjoy the show.

pay close attention from 1:19- 1:42

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

NPCs?

They don't have any engineering in RES.

 

[Misty_Dark]

well feel free to make a video with G5 Frags vs a corvette/conda/cutter and prove me that im wrong. so far i have gave you numbers and a video reference but here have another and see what lazy excuse you come out with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvU8EGkfRk&t=102s

feel free so see how vindicator Jones melts a dangerous conda in 23 seconds from with doblue shot frags. 1:19- 1:42

once again, that Ananconda did NOT have full health when he started, shields was already down to 2/3rd or so. And he uses 6 frag cannons here, that is quite a few more than you can fit on a Vulture, or a Clipper, that you already have used as examples.



Where is the stats of your friends Corvette?


And you comparing non engineered targets here and then you say it is the same against ENGINEERED targets. You can't mix and match this at will. An engineered ship is far stronger than the same ship with stock modules. and this nothing new.

 

[Lestat]

well feel free to make a video with G5 Frags vs a corvette/conda/cutter and prove me that im wrong. so far i have gave you numbers and a video reference but here have another and see what lazy excuse you come out with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvU8EGkfRk&t=102s

feel free so see how vindicator Jones melts a dangerous conda in 23 seconds from with doblue shot frags. 1:19- 1:42

Let see the Youtube topic name. Ever wanted to know how well Double Shot Frag Cannons work against NPCs ? You might be surprised. I take my fully engineered Chieftain out with 3 small 1 medium and 2 large Frag Cannons.

Listen. You are the one that made this topic called Petition to remove/rebalance Frag cannons. It's your reportability to make the videos. STOP using other people videos. Also, use players and NOT NPC.

 

[elkiller]

Let see the Youtube topic name. Ever wanted to know how well Double Shot Frag Cannons work against NPCs ? You might be surprised. I take my fully engineered Chieftain out with 3 small 1 medium and 2 large Frag Cannons.

Listen. You are the one that made this topic called Petition to remove/rebalance Frag cannons. It's your reportability to make the videos. STOP using other people videos. Also, use players and NOT NPC.

i have given number and provided footage, you can complain all you want, if you dont want to believe proof then that is a you problem. Im not trying to prove this to you the ones that im interested to look into this weapon is Frontier Your opinion worthless and empty specially when you cant even bring evidence to prove your point, all you do is run your mouth. So like i said before Prove me wrong.. if you can

 

[Marra Morgan]

ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDDCHuHHaI8

Lol that's against an NPC!

All weapons are OP against the poor NPCs!

 

[elkiller]

once again, that Ananconda did NOT have full health when he started, shields was already down to 2/3rd or so. And he uses 6 frag cannons here, that is quite a few more than you can fit on a Vulture, or a Clipper, that you already have used as examples.



Where is the stats of your friends Corvette?


And you comparing non engineered targets here and then you say it is the same against ENGINEERED targets. You can't mix and match this at will. An engineered ship is far stronger than the same ship with stock modules. and this nothing new.

oh you mean like this??

conda's hull at 40% in 28 seconds. i bet that you are going to tell me something like: that conda is obviously not engineered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2aIxrAHpZE

 

[elkiller]

Lol that's against an NPC!

All weapons are OP against the poor NPCs!

ok here is some pvp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2aIxrAHpZE

 

[Misty_Dark]

i have given number and provided footage, you can complain all you want, if you dont want to believe proof then that is a you problem. Im not trying to prove this to you the ones that im interested to look into this weapon is Frontier Your opinion worthless and empty specially when you cant even bring evidence to prove your point, all you do is run your mouth. So like i said before Prove me wrong.. if you can

But that is just it.
This is your statement:
"Too many times i have seen fully engineered codas corvettes and cutters being killed in less than 5-7 shots by commanders using pacifiers and Large G5 frags"


And then you give videos where NPC are the targets, NPC's ships that from the start is not at full health. And most importantly these are far from fully engineered, if they are engineered at all...



And most importantly, you have not tested this yourself, this is by your own statement... so you are basically asking to change something that you have not tested or even used. So you are asking for something to be nerfed without actually knowing how it works.

 

[elkiller]

But that is just it.
This is your statement:
"Too many times i have seen fully engineered codas corvettes and cutters being killed in less than 5-7 shots by commanders using pacifiers and Large G5 frags"


And then you give videos where NPC are the targets, NPC's ships that from the start is not at full health. And most importantly these are far from fully engineered, if they are engineered at all...



And most importantly, you have not tested this yourself, this is by your own statement... so you are basically asking to change something that you have not tested or even used. So you are asking for something to be nerfed without actually knowing how it works.

i show the videos of what i talking about happening, i run the numbers and yet i have people like you telling me that i have to go and test is and i get the felling that if i do that you are just going to come out with another lazy excuse. And if you wanted to find PVP with frags videos look it up yourself and try not to be so lazy. But im a generous guy and i like to use proof so here pvp with frags just for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2aIxrAHpZE

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Too many times i have seen fully engineered codas corvettes and cutters being killed in less than 5-7 shots by commanders using pacifiers and Large G5 frags and flying vultures and clippers. since it has been forever and the weapons has not been balanced i Propose a removal or a re balance of the Frags/pacifiers. no other weapon in the game has the same impact on the 3 large as these weapons. is bad game design to have a god weapon and here is the numbers for all to see:

2 3C fixed frags G5 double shot =498.5 DPS

2 3C fixed pacifiers G5 double shot = 367 DPS

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I'm not in game right now but I think your numbers are off in the first place.
Where did you pull that from?

 

[Hellfire85]

stop making a fool out of yourself OP.

You're obviously not well informed and not even an active PvP player.

If it bothers you that people can chew thru badly engineered hulls with maxed out frags, go engineer your ships properly or go play in solo or PG. There you won't find players who put time into building their ships to become more than cannon fodder to NPCs.

 

[Lestat]

ok here is some pvp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2aIxrAHpZE

When will you do your OWN videos? Come on. That video is over 11 Months old video and also has an SLF NPC flying about. We also don't know what been engineered on the other players. All we know is "Frag Cannon Gunship - Elite Dangerous PVP" Does it tells us anything else? NO.

If you want to prove your point. DO YOUR OWN videos. Stop looking for the video to try to prove your point. You keep failing by doing that.

 

[Ca$hback]

Two possibilities
1)Your position is indefensible=You're demonstrably wrong
or
B)You're unable to defend your position=You have too much difficulty engineering the ship and making the video in order to prove your point. For a demonstration you need to control all available variables.

I don't blame you. I think I generally fall into the second category. I got a nice rig but making videos requires learning I'm not willing to do right now. Building an adequate ship requires more time than I'm willing to spend. So I get used to losing arguments because I have a whole bunch of opinion and speculation and little actual substance.
If it's important enough to you you'll make the time.
Remember though that it's easier to prove someone wrong than to change the game.
So you venting? You venting? You venting.

 

[Lestat]

Two possibilities
1)Your position is indefensible=You're demonstrably wrong
or
B)You're unable to defend your position=You have too much difficulty engineering the ship and making the video in order to prove your point. For a demonstration you need to control all available variables.

I don't blame you. I think I generally fall into the second category. I got a nice rig but making videos requires learning I'm not willing to do right now. Building an adequate ship requires more time than I'm willing to spend. So I get used to losing arguments because I have a whole bunch of opinion and speculation and little actual substance.
If it's important enough to you you'll make the time.
Remember though that it's easier to prove someone wrong than to change the game.
So you venting? You venting? You venting.

He could download fraps I also think Nvidia also has video capture. Or if computer power is an issue they could use a Cellphone or a camera with video recording That if their computer could not play the game and record at the same time.

So there no real reason for the Op says he can't do his own videos.

 

[vindicator jones]

Even though my video has been used to show how OP double shot frags are, You have to keep a few things in mind.

They are quite hard to use effectively, you have to be super close to get max damage, and you have to time your shots exceptionally well. So unless you can hold your target perfectly in place, frags are going to be far less effective.

Trying to fire at targets beyond 300m is a waste of time, meaning if you can keep your distance from someone who is using frags, you have a significant advantage. Frags will do minimal damage, beyond that range.. If you look in my video you will often see some targets that can hold fire on me, but I cant shoot back as they are too far away for me to fire effectively on.

Are frags powerful, yes indidly do... super powerful, but their drawbacks keep them in check. Do they need to be Nerfed.. NO.. ABSOLUTELY NOT..