PvP Gave it another try... result.. the same.

[Malakie]

Well, decided with this update to see if the game had earned play time yet... and within minutes, learned 'nope'. What I just witnessed, if you are a newbie or are someone that can't play every day, Elite is no longer the game for you. You will find yourself in nothing but a period of frustration as other players who can play every day, who know all the little weapons that are best and so on, pretty much pvp you over and over and over relentlessly so you can't even get out of a system. PVP is one thing.. repeatedly by the same person who sits and waits for you.. not even close... and it is even worse if a player tries to fight back because that pvp'r is using some kind of one shot ship disabled weapon that the newbie is probably not even aware exists nor has any idea how to even try and counter it.

Watching a newbie try to leave a station only to have some guy in a ship who has some weapons that can disabled the newbies ship in one shot... THAT is not fun game play. And to watch them do it repeatedly, THAT is griefing, not PVP.

But that's ok.. That is what those of you who will read this and troll the post will whine about.. "it's pvp..."

I don't have a problem with PVP. But when I witness this kind of behavior and the fact the game is so way out of any kind of balance where a one shot weapon can disable a ship completely... that no longer makes the game FUN or gives someone the urge to play it. Even I was not aware you could one shot disabled an entire ship that way now. Seeing it happen was a surprise for me too, not just the person I watched it happening to.

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

It is sad as the new scanning mechanics are actually pretty nice. Some players can ruin an entire experience in less than a couple minutes, especially for new players that don't have the benefit of knowing about single shot ship disabling weapons... or anything else that might help them in that regard....

For me, I still play once in a while but not like in the beginning as a founder. That's why that ability I was not aware of either. I cannot believe Elite has allowed that kind of game play to now become the norm. The reasons I just wrote about it here are part of that reason that I don't play much anymore... I won't get into the other reasons things changed for me.. but after watching this today, I wanted to vent and say kudo's to those of you that play that way and love ruining any game play fun for a lot of people because you can sit there and grief someone over and over and over until they finally just exit the game.

I had planned on spending a bit more time in game myself.. but watching this just pretty much ruined any desire to play Elite again. Such potential in a game.. ruined by those that think griefing is pvp and just fine to do regardless. Too bad Elite did not take the other path... and make combat about personal skill instead... THEN maybe things would be different and PVP would be PVP not just ganking someone with the push of a button.

 

[Lysette]

Well, decided with this update to see if the game had earned play time yet... and within minutes, learned 'nope'. What I just witnessed, if you are a newbie or are someone that can't play every day, Elite is no longer the game for you. You will find yourself in nothing but a period of frustration as other players who can play every day, who know all the little weapons that are best and so on, pretty much pvp you over and over and over relentlessly so you can't even get out of a system. PVP is one thing.. repeatedly by the same person who sits and waits for you.. not even close... and it is even worse if a player tries to fight back because that pvp'r is using some kind of one shot ship disabled weapon that the newbie is probably not even aware exists nor has any idea how to even try and counter it.

Watching a newbie try to leave a station only to have some guy in a ship who has some weapons that can disabled the newbies ship in one shot... THAT is not fun game play. And to watch them do it repeatedly, THAT is griefing, not PVP.

But that's ok.. That is what those of you who will read this and troll the post will whine about.. "it's pvp..."

I don't have a problem with PVP. But when I witness this kind of behavior and the fact the game is so way out of any kind of balance where a one shot weapon can disable a ship completely... that no longer makes the game FUN or gives someone the urge to play it. Even I was not aware you could one shot disabled an entire ship that way now. Seeing it happen was a surprise for me too, not just the person I watched it happening to.

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

It is sad as the new scanning mechanics are actually pretty nice. Some players can ruin an entire experience in less than a couple minutes, especially for new players that don't have the benefit of knowing about single shot ship disabling weapons... or anything else that might help them in that regard....

For me, I still play once in a while but not like in the beginning as a founder. That's why that ability I was not aware of either. I cannot believe Elite has allowed that kind of game play to now become the norm. The reasons I just wrote about it here are part of that reason that I don't play much anymore... I won't get into the other reasons things changed for me.. but after watching this today, I wanted to vent and say kudo's to those of you that play that way and love ruining any game play fun for a lot of people because you can sit there and grief someone over and over and over until they finally just exit the game.

I had planned on spending a bit more time in game myself.. but watching this just pretty much ruined any desire to play Elite again. Such potential in a game.. ruined by those that think griefing is pvp and just fine to do regardless. Too bad Elite did not take the other path... and make combat about personal skill instead... THEN maybe things would be different and PVP would be PVP not just ganking someone with the push of a button.

Well there is no need to play in open if you want to play with other players and not be involved in PvP at all. There are PvE only private groups - like MOBIUS has a bunch of groups with up to 20k members each. Have a look at it - https://elitepve.com/

Otherwise open pvp is just like in any other pvp enabled game - if you aren't a nolifer, you won't pull anything there. That is just how pvp nowadays is.

 

[Mo Ronik]

I dunno about solo being a cop-out. Solo mode gives you an environment to learn how things work and build that muscle memory where you just sorta automatically do what ever needs to be done. It also gives you an opportunity to learn combat, explore, mine, trade and all the other things you need to progress in the game and not have some griefer killing you because you don't have and can't afford a tank. Once you have the basics down and can put up a fight of some sort then switch over to open mode and give that a shot. Probably another learning curve there as well. We both know Elite is a complex game and it takes a while to really learn it. Having a new player thrown into the fray from day one would be like transporting someone that has no idea how to fly an airplane into the cockpit of a 747 and telling them to fly or die. Be a lot of craters in the ground...

 

[Lysette]

I dunno about solo being a cop-out. Solo mode gives you an environment to learn how things work and build that muscle memory where you just sorta automatically do what ever needs to be done. It also gives you an opportunity to learn combat, explore, mine, trade and all the other things you need to progress in the game and not have some griefer killing you because you don't have and can't afford a tank. Once you have the basics down and can put up a fight of some sort then switch over to open mode and give that a shot. Probably another learning curve there as well. We both know Elite is a complex game and it takes a while to really learn it. Having a new player thrown into the fray from day one would be like transporting someone that has no idea how to fly an airplane into the cockpit of a 747 and telling them to fly or die. Be a lot of craters in the ground...

Mo, open follows the rules you have to follow there or you will just have a bad time - that is you have to get as fast as possible to "end game", otherwise you will not stand a chance. Open Pvp is the worst you can imagine, because there you have to compete with people, who play 12hours and more every day. The OP is totally right about this aspect of the game. Open is just not for a casual player.

 

[Mo Ronik]

I've read several posts from folks flying unarmed or lightly armed exploration ships leaving a station in solo and then after they are clear of the bubble, switch over to open. As I'm a casual player I have no desire to tangle with someone that only wants to destroy ships around stations or other places so the mode switching will probably be my path once I decide to venture out exploring with others. I guess everyone needs to get their jollies somehow. One of the best features of Elite is that everyone can play the way they want instead of just one predetermined method and there is no end game.

 

[Lysette]

I've read several posts from folks flying unarmed or lightly armed exploration ships leaving a station in solo and then after they are clear of the bubble, switch over to open. As I'm a casual player I have no desire to tangle with someone that only wants to destroy ships around stations or other places so the mode switching will probably be my path once I decide to venture out exploring with others. I guess everyone needs to get their jollies somehow. One of the best features of Elite is that everyone can play the way they want instead of just one predetermined method and there is no end game.

For pvp people "end game" is being geared up to the teeth and following a meta-build - everything else is below par - this is in pretty much every pvp game with open pvp this way - the only exception I can think of is EVE in this regards, but they have certain rules in place, which makes it less "open" than in a pvp enabled game with no rules. So everyone, who is not going the fastest way possible to getting a meta-build ship, will not stand a chance in open - and leaving populated systems and still play in open is kind of self-deception - like claiming to play in open, when no one is around - not much of open pvp then. it is just self-deception.

 

[Red Anders]

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

Nah it really isn't.

See, if the game was supposed to be multiplayer only there would be no solo mode. The fact there is a solo mode means that your statement that the game is 'supposed to be a multiplayer enjoyed game' is incorrect if you mean it's supposed to be exclusively that.

It's supposed to be a game that can be enjoyed either as a solo experience, or as a multiplayer experience. Or indeed as both since there's never any kind of hard lock into either game mode.

What it's not supposed to be though is a game which offers only co-operative multiplayer. There are games on the market which do offer that but this isn't one of them. Again, it does offer co-operative multiplayer but there's no way to opt into that without also opting into the fact that some other players won't want to play that way. Or rather accepting that some of them may want to play co-operatively, just not with you or the player you referred to in your tale of woe above and may instead choose to play antagonistically as far as you're concerned.

This game probably offers more different kinds of player experience than any other that I can readily name. Ultimately if a player wants to play in open, they have to actually err... want to play in open. That's the actual open mode that the game offers, not some other unicorns and rainbows open mode which does not and will never exist.

So yeah. Saying 'play in solo or private group if you don't like it' isn't 'excusing' anything. It's simply saying 'This is reality. Deal with it.'

 

[Slange Lands]

Commander Malakie,

The multiplayer experience can still sort of be had whilst playing in Solo:

1. Join a discord server and/or a squadron with likeminded commanders.
2. I agree having to know the PvP metas and mindlessly grinding for engineering mats is odious, why not try CQC instead for PvP.? I build my ships and try to get good in Solo, and actually fight in CQC.

o7

 

[Para Handy]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Well, decided with this update to see if the game had earned play time yet... and within minutes, learned 'nope'. What I just witnessed, if you are a newbie or are someone that can't play every day, Elite is no longer the game for you. You will find yourself in nothing but a period of frustration as other players who can play every day, who know all the little weapons that are best and so on, pretty much pvp you over and over and over relentlessly so you can't even get out of a system. PVP is one thing.. repeatedly by the same person who sits and waits for you.. not even close... and it is even worse if a player tries to fight back because that pvp'r is using some kind of one shot ship disabled weapon that the newbie is probably not even aware exists nor has any idea how to even try and counter it.

Watching a newbie try to leave a station only to have some guy in a ship who has some weapons that can disabled the newbies ship in one shot... THAT is not fun game play. And to watch them do it repeatedly, THAT is griefing, not PVP.

But that's ok.. That is what those of you who will read this and troll the post will whine about.. "it's pvp..."

I don't have a problem with PVP. But when I witness this kind of behavior and the fact the game is so way out of any kind of balance where a one shot weapon can disable a ship completely... that no longer makes the game FUN or gives someone the urge to play it. Even I was not aware you could one shot disabled an entire ship that way now. Seeing it happen was a surprise for me too, not just the person I watched it happening to.

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

It is sad as the new scanning mechanics are actually pretty nice. Some players can ruin an entire experience in less than a couple minutes, especially for new players that don't have the benefit of knowing about single shot ship disabling weapons... or anything else that might help them in that regard....

For me, I still play once in a while but not like in the beginning as a founder. That's why that ability I was not aware of either. I cannot believe Elite has allowed that kind of game play to now become the norm. The reasons I just wrote about it here are part of that reason that I don't play much anymore... I won't get into the other reasons things changed for me.. but after watching this today, I wanted to vent and say kudo's to those of you that play that way and love ruining any game play fun for a lot of people because you can sit there and grief someone over and over and over until they finally just exit the game.

I had planned on spending a bit more time in game myself.. but watching this just pretty much ruined any desire to play Elite again. Such potential in a game.. ruined by those that think griefing is pvp and just fine to do regardless. Too bad Elite did not take the other path... and make combat about personal skill instead... THEN maybe things would be different and PVP would be PVP not just ganking someone with the push of a button.

Here you go Cmdr, empower yourself!


[video=youtube;W6ITd8UFK84]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6ITd8UFK84[/video]



[video=youtube;Uh9AWV_BWo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0[/video]



[video=youtube;WkmgrFet5ac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmgrFet5ac[/video]



That covers all you need to know really.

No more plausible deniability!

o7

 

[Xintar]

The drawn out lamentations of the violins of autumn,
wound my heart...

I see one bridge shy of a trollsky.

 

[Malakie]

Well there is no need to play in open if you want to play with other players and not be involved in PvP at all. There are PvE only private groups - like MOBIUS has a bunch of groups with up to 20k members each. Have a look at it - https://elitepve.com/

Otherwise open pvp is just like in any other pvp enabled game - if you aren't a nolifer, you won't pull anything there. That is just how pvp nowadays is.

As I clearly said in my comment, I have no issue with PVP. What I saw was not PVP. Big difference.

 

[Malakie]

Don't feed the troll.

If I were a troll, I would not have written what I said.. Pay attention.. I am a founder, are you? I have every right to state my opinion just as you do. And MY OPINION is that things can be PVP but when it is to this extreme, that is NOT fun for anyone.. especially a brand new player that I watched try to start out and simply change his mind because of what occurred.

You can take your bull elsewhere and TROLL someone else..

 

[Malakie]

Here you go Cmdr, empower yourself!











That covers all you need to know really.

No more plausible deniability!

o7

Did ANY of you actually read what I said and posted?

Man some of you just troll to troll.. What I witnessed was NOT ME. I watched a brand new player have this happen to them EVEN AFTER asking people to stop because they were trying to learn.

Now you can play games with words all you want.. And if this is what you want for a game, then have at it.. MY MONEY WILL GO ELSEWHERE if this kinda crap continues.. and people like you can pay the bills and have the game all to yourselves.

I play PVP myself.. I don't pull this kinda crap on people. NEXT TIME READ the damn post first.

 

[Malakie]

The drawn out lamentations of the violins of autumn,
wound my heart...

I see one bridge shy of a trollsky.

and I see yet one more like you trolling the OP because you did not bother to even read the post.. You ASSumed something not true yet again.

 

[Ca$hback]

Case in point.

 

[aRJay]

Well, decided with this update to see if the game had earned play time yet... and within minutes, learned 'nope'. What I just witnessed, if you are a newbie or are someone that can't play every day, Elite is no longer the game for you. You will find yourself in nothing but a period of frustration as other players who can play every day, who know all the little weapons that are best and so on, pretty much pvp you over and over and over relentlessly so you can't even get out of a system. PVP is one thing.. repeatedly by the same person who sits and waits for you.. not even close... and it is even worse if a player tries to fight back because that pvp'r is using some kind of one shot ship disabled weapon that the newbie is probably not even aware exists nor has any idea how to even try and counter it.

Watching a newbie try to leave a station only to have some guy in a ship who has some weapons that can disabled the newbies ship in one shot... THAT is not fun game play. And to watch them do it repeatedly, THAT is griefing, not PVP.

But that's ok.. That is what those of you who will read this and troll the post will whine about.. "it's pvp..."

I don't have a problem with PVP. But when I witness this kind of behavior and the fact the game is so way out of any kind of balance where a one shot weapon can disable a ship completely... that no longer makes the game FUN or gives someone the urge to play it. Even I was not aware you could one shot disabled an entire ship that way now. Seeing it happen was a surprise for me too, not just the person I watched it happening to.

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

It is sad as the new scanning mechanics are actually pretty nice. Some players can ruin an entire experience in less than a couple minutes, especially for new players that don't have the benefit of knowing about single shot ship disabling weapons... or anything else that might help them in that regard....

For me, I still play once in a while but not like in the beginning as a founder. That's why that ability I was not aware of either. I cannot believe Elite has allowed that kind of game play to now become the norm. The reasons I just wrote about it here are part of that reason that I don't play much anymore... I won't get into the other reasons things changed for me.. but after watching this today, I wanted to vent and say kudo's to those of you that play that way and love ruining any game play fun for a lot of people because you can sit there and grief someone over and over and over until they finally just exit the game.

I had planned on spending a bit more time in game myself.. but watching this just pretty much ruined any desire to play Elite again. Such potential in a game.. ruined by those that think griefing is pvp and just fine to do regardless. Too bad Elite did not take the other path... and make combat about personal skill instead... THEN maybe things would be different and PVP would be PVP not just ganking someone with the push of a button.

It is sad but true that there is a percentage of the player base that want to play Player versus Victim, thankfully the advice often given here to newcomers of playing in Solo or Private a group until they have left the usual hunting grounds, the starting systems, is still pretty good. The chances of meeting any sort of player are much lower elsewhere so the chance of meeting a PvV player are extremely low. Once out of the target zone adequate skills can be picked up.

Personally I don't see how you can get around the problem without a redesign of either the game or the players, the first is unlikely to happen and various religions, eugenicists and gods have been failing at the latter since before the dawn of time.

Myself I only indulge in prearranged consensual PvP, partly because I don't like losing and partly because I don't give in too often to my meaner impulses to break someone else's toys but mostly because there is so much else to do that is a satisfying challenge.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Well, decided with this update to see if the game had earned play time yet... and within minutes, learned 'nope'. What I just witnessed, if you are a newbie or are someone that can't play every day, Elite is no longer the game for you. You will find yourself in nothing but a period of frustration as other players who can play every day, who know all the little weapons that are best and so on, pretty much pvp you over and over and over relentlessly so you can't even get out of a system. PVP is one thing.. repeatedly by the same person who sits and waits for you.. not even close... and it is even worse if a player tries to fight back because that pvp'r is using some kind of one shot ship disabled weapon that the newbie is probably not even aware exists nor has any idea how to even try and counter it.

Watching a newbie try to leave a station only to have some guy in a ship who has some weapons that can disabled the newbies ship in one shot... THAT is not fun game play. And to watch them do it repeatedly, THAT is griefing, not PVP.

But that's ok.. That is what those of you who will read this and troll the post will whine about.. "it's pvp..."

I don't have a problem with PVP. But when I witness this kind of behavior and the fact the game is so way out of any kind of balance where a one shot weapon can disable a ship completely... that no longer makes the game FUN or gives someone the urge to play it. Even I was not aware you could one shot disabled an entire ship that way now. Seeing it happen was a surprise for me too, not just the person I watched it happening to.

And for those of you that will use the same old excuse, telling him to go into SOLO mode, that is a cop out.. Elite is supposed to be a multi player enjoyed game... Telling someone to play in solo mode is nothing but an excuse to excuse other players actions.

It is sad as the new scanning mechanics are actually pretty nice. Some players can ruin an entire experience in less than a couple minutes, especially for new players that don't have the benefit of knowing about single shot ship disabling weapons... or anything else that might help them in that regard....

For me, I still play once in a while but not like in the beginning as a founder. That's why that ability I was not aware of either. I cannot believe Elite has allowed that kind of game play to now become the norm. The reasons I just wrote about it here are part of that reason that I don't play much anymore... I won't get into the other reasons things changed for me.. but after watching this today, I wanted to vent and say kudo's to those of you that play that way and love ruining any game play fun for a lot of people because you can sit there and grief someone over and over and over until they finally just exit the game.

I had planned on spending a bit more time in game myself.. but watching this just pretty much ruined any desire to play Elite again. Such potential in a game.. ruined by those that think griefing is pvp and just fine to do regardless. Too bad Elite did not take the other path... and make combat about personal skill instead... THEN maybe things would be different and PVP would be PVP not just ganking someone with the push of a button.

At any point did you try to help this new player, or let them know that PvP is entirely optional, maybe suggesting one of the several legitimate ways to avoid PvP if you don't want it?

Or was making a forum post about it your first port of call?

 

[Lysette]

At any point did you try to help this new player, or let them know that PvP is entirely optional, maybe suggesting one of the several legitimate ways to avoid PvP if you don't want it?

Or was making a forum post about it your first port of call?

I think, the OP isn't about avoiding of PvP at all - I thought so at first as well - but it is more about PvP in a different way, with skill and challenge instead of easy ganking with newbies as victims. This could be possible in a private group, which would be dedicated to skillful PvP and remove any abusive ganker from the group. I don't know if such a group exists - eventually I does - and so I think, if someone of you guys knows about such a group, that would be what the OP is actually looking for.

 

[Marra Morgan]

I think, the OP isn't about avoiding of PvP at all - I thought so at first as well - but it is more about PvP in a different way, with skill and challenge instead of easy ganking with newbies as victims. This could be possible in a private group, which would be dedicated to skillful PvP and remove any abusive ganker from the group. I don't know if such a group exists - eventually I does - and so I think, if someone of you guys knows about such a group, that would be what the OP is actually looking for.

My concern is over the new player who was allegedly being ganked - did s/he get any help or advice? I don't really care much for the OP's wrangling over what constitutes PvP, it's not going to help that newbie, is it?