Frontier, the absence of a Universal Limpet Controller undermines your own good work

[Peter Drakon]

I had the same feeling: it should have been done for this update.

Something should be done about the controllers: a single universal controller (size makes more available limpets at the same time, class makes it better), or controller slots inside controller hubs (size makes more available slots, slots are the types, one slot is for one single limpet, class makes it better), or a built in universal module into every ship (since almost every aspect of the game needs some kind of limpets anyway). Whatever, there have been several very good ideas has been raised already.

I'd go as far as limpits should not be stored inside cargo, they should be ammo type.

Peter

 

[Iskariot]

A gameplay anecdote: yesterday I was flying around with my all-purpose Asp, which is equipped with a Collector Limpet controller, to snag the materials I find in USSs and various places. During my travels, I see a new contact, one of the many new kinds of installations and megaships you've put in the Bubble. I decide to stop and take a look. The asset itself is impressive. I scan it with the Datalink Scanner. It highlights the cargo hatches and the data points I could break/hack. Except, I cannot, because I lack the two different kinds of limpet controllers required (Hatch Breaker and Recon). Oh well, I leave without interacting with the megaship. About half hour later, I find a new distress signal. I drop in, and there's a stranded ship needing fuel. I'd like to help it, but I cannot, because i lack the Fuel Limpet controller.

I suppose the same could happen with someone meeting a Thargoid (which can be interacted with by means of Research Limpets) or a damaged ship in needs to repair (Repair Limpet).

The moral of the story is: you've worked hard to introduce new assets and new scenarios for us to interact with. But more often than not we will not interact with them, because we don't have the tools for it. Could I have flown over to the nearest station and bought the three kinds of limpet controllers I needed? Sure. But (even assuming that the station had them in stock) that would've taken me quite a bit of extra time, between going there, outfitting it, and then coming back to put back in my Asp the modules I regularly want.

Now, before someone says "well, but I do". Good for you. There's also people who go to Beagle point in a Sidewinder. But I think it is a pretty uncontroversial opinion that the game should, on average, help you perform the actions you want without extra and unnecessary hoops to jump into, especially for new or inexperienced players who aren't even aware of the 8 different kinds of limpet controllers they might need to equip. They are just too many.

We need a Universal Limpet Controller.

Triple YES.

We really do need a good solution for the limpet controller bonanza.

One controller that rules them all!

That would be an awesome improvement and would also create incredible flexibility.
Imagine having a ship outfitted for mining, and you run into some npc asking for fuel. You can then just program one of your limpets to bring him fuel.
Or you might assist a damaged ship on the fly with a repair limpet. It would be best if limpets did not expire, but instead were repairable and also could be produced, just like an SLF. That way you do no longer need to fill up your cargo hold with limpets

I propose the introduction of so called limpet bays in different sizes. Every limpet bay has a universal controller build in, it can store a few limpets depending on the size of the bay, and can also repair limpets and generate new limpets, but you do need to have the raw materials

I think limpets would then become the go to tool for every cmdr in all kinds of situations. You can then respond to situations you now have to ignore.
You might even start using limpets in small ships, because you might install a small limpet bay with only room for one or two limpets. You do not need more, because you can repair your damaged limpets and you can fabricate new ones if a limpet gets destroyed.

I think this would be a much better, and much more useful and much, much more fun implementation of limpets than we currently have.

 

[wstephenson]

I put a bit of thought into how General Purpose Limpets would work. It's basically context-sensitive use of limpets for any task; however to make them not Too Powerful, special purpose limpets could be bought which would be better at more hazardous tasks.

1. Select a target in the contacts panel
2. Open the Roles panel and move to the Limpets tab
3. A context-sensitive view dependent on the selected contact is shown, based on the current SRV-Ship cargo transfer view, enabling
   1. one-way transfer of selected fuel, commodities or ammunition (Fuel Transfer Limpet++, usable in NPC rescue scenarios, Fuel Ratting, cooperative mining, etc)
      1. Barter of some commodity for another or credits (eg swapping refined ores for spare limpets in a RES). Causes an inbox message on the recipients inbox, accepting opens the transfer view in the Roles UI.
   2. If no target selected, all nearby collectable entities floating in space are shown (Collection Limpet)
   3. Hatch breaking (if contact is a ship)
   4. Hacking megaship/installation components (Recon Limpet)
   5. Repair (if contact is a damaged ship and not hostile)
   6. Decontamination (if contact is a Thargoid-contaminated ship)
   7. Research (if target is a Thargoid)
4. For transfer, the limpet cycles between source and destination until the desired quantity (or ALL) has been transferred. More than one canister per run, ideally. Larger controllers can run multiple limpets simultaneously.
5. Since the controller is now unified, basic limpets can be used for all tasks, but for specialised tasks, there will be more success with the correct type of limpet.
   1. Mil-spec limpets are armoured and more likely to survive PDT fire when hatch breaking
   2. Haz-mat limpets are resistant to Thargoid chemistry, high temperatures and toxic waste (Decontamination, Research, Damaged Station scenarios, ship salvaging)
6. Limpets are still vulnerable to collision damage and environmental dangers, but are refueled and repaired after completing a task.

 

[Weps]

This has been requested so many times now... I don't even know why you guys keep bothering.

If you can't take the hint, I'm gonna translate it for you: FDEV don't care one bit and aren't going to do squat about it in the near future.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

This has been requested so many times now... I don't even know why you guys keep bothering.

If you can't take the hint, I'm gonna translate it for you: FDEV don't care one bit and aren't going to do squat about it in the near future.

I'm a dreamer.

But seriously, this is not asking for Spacelegs, or Atmospheric planets, or even a new ship. It's asking for the reworking of already-existing modules. I cannot believe that it's something SO hard to design and implement. Especially since we know that it's been on their radar since last January.

I like to believe that if they keep seeing how EVERYONE asks for it, and how it would be a very good move for them in terms of "effort to crowdplease" ratio, they'll decide to actually do it.

 

[bootsam]

I approve of this thread.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Yep.

Universal controller and specialised limpets.

 

[Backelaer]

Come to tink of it, I fly an Anaconda most of the time because of the number of optional internals. I can take it out and just see what crosses my path.

I want to fly smaller ships more often, it's just that you're automatically limiting yourself to one activity.

A universal limpet controller would see me flying smaller ships a lot more often.

 

[Mokel DeLorean [GPL]]

The current amount of limpet controllers hinders casual gameplay as described by the OP, but it also makes the ship selection for DW2 very limited
Not only do we have too many controllers, but they also require an uneven slot (if you do not want to waste precious space).

 

[Sylow]

I have the feeling that there is not a single player of this game, who would oppose reworking and streamlining the current limpet system. We might differ in the preferred solution. I personally for example would find the limpet controller rack to be underwhelming. It wouldn't change the fact that you need to sacrifice internals for very basic functions. It would only now allow you to sacrifice one big internal instead of several smaller ones. It doesn't change the fact that some of the new events, which require special limpets, cross your path randomly. Sacrificing a lot of your ship and your ships efficiency for the mere sake that some special event might perhaps, at some low chance, cross your path is just not making much sense. But as long as people don't set up ships accordingly, the new events have very low value.

Thus I actually think that at least the functionality for fuel transfer limpets (and perhaps also for repair limpets) should be built into each and any ship. Along with a small rack, which can hold like 4 limpets and nothing else than those limpets. In the world of ED, this just would make so much sense. I mean, in many countries in our present world, any car is required to have a first aid kit on board. Fuel and repair limpets would be just the equivalent of that.

For other limpets, I personally think that we should have combined controllers. Add one controller, get several new options to your fire groups. There's a number of limpets, which already now just fit so well together that they should be combined.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

The current amount of limpet controllers hinders casual gameplay as described by the OP, but it also makes the ship selection for DW2 very limited
Not only do we have too many controllers, but they also require an uneven slot (if you do not want to waste precious space).

Yes. I actually wanted to say this: to have a ULC before DW2 would be a massive, MASSIVE help to the whole logistics of the expedition.

 

[Barking_Mad]

This has been requested so many times now... I don't even know why you guys keep bothering.

If you can't take the hint, I'm gonna translate it for you: FDEV don't care one bit and aren't going to do squat about it in the near future.

It would be good to see them say something on the subject, but there's plausible reasons why they've not done it other than not caring about it.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Yep good observation OP and totally agree

I guess the only justification is them trying to avoid you from having a true multi-role ship on the grounds it would deminish ship variety and value

 

[wstephenson]

It'd work well for the "a bunch of collectors for materials and synth the others if it comes up" situation but I think it would be very inconvenient for miners who would need to guess before they set off what collector/prospector balance they needed.

I wonder if there might also be underlying problems with a single module having multiple fire modes. Certainly I can imagine issues with a module controlling both prospectors and collectors at once regardless of how it does it.

It's hard to infer the desired action solely from the current target, and that's only taking the current gameplay possibilities - it's a bit easier for the prospector/collector case, as it could check whether anything (an asteroid) is under the reticle when fired.

I suggest making limpet mode similar to the way NPC crew members have orders - set the standing order and the crewmember carries it out. Put the limpet mode on the crew/SRV screen and set the mode of any limpet fired depending on that. If the current target contradicts that mode, report an error.

 

[mant3z]

Simple and brillant solution.+1
Limpets should be universal and way of usage should be taken on board.

 

[Commdor]

I know a Universal Limpet Controller sounds like a great idea, especially compared to the current situation, but I think it would be much too powerful for a single module. There's 8 different Limpet Controllers, which means a ULC would be a single super-module with 8 different functions (and probably more as the game continues to expand). What other module in the game has that many functions? Should such a module with no real downsides be allowed to exist?

I think a more balanced approach would be to condense LCs into "combo packs" designed for general roles, with each pack including the Collector function because of its usefulness in a wide variety of situations. For example:

- Rescue Limpet Controller (Fuel Transferer + Repair + Collector)
- Pirate Limpet Controller (Recon + Hatch Breaker + Collector)
- Miner Limpet Controller (Prospector + Collector)
- AX Limpet Controller (Decontamination + Research + Collector)
- Combat Limpet Controller (Repair + Decontamination + Collector)

 

[TheSynopticVision]

I know a Universal Limpet Controller sounds like a great idea, especially compared to the current situation, but I think it would be much too powerful for a single module. There's 8 different Limpet Controllers, which means a ULC would be a single super-module with 8 different functions (and probably more as the game continues to expand). What other module in the game has that many functions? Should such a module with no real downsides be allowed to exist?

I think a more balanced approach would be to condense LCs into "combo packs" designed for general roles, with each pack including the Collector function because of its usefulness in a wide variety of situations. For example:

- Rescue Limpet Controller (Fuel Transferer + Repair + Collector)
- Pirate Limpet Controller (Recon + Hatch Breaker + Collector)
- Miner Limpet Controller (Prospector + Collector)
- AX Limpet Controller (Decontamination + Research + Collector)
- Combat Limpet Controller (Repair + Decontamination + Collector)

While I do prefer the idea of a universal bay, I am happy with this solution as well (perhaps bringing down the categories down to 3 rather than 5?). Either way, in this thread and others we've suggested many different solutions to the same problem. I'd be OK with any of them, if it only came.

 

[Anubite]

A gameplay anecdote: yesterday I was flying around with my all-purpose Asp, which is equipped with a Collector Limpet controller, to snag the materials I find in USSs and various places. During my travels, I see a new contact, one of the many new kinds of installations and megaships you've put in the Bubble. I decide to stop and take a look. The asset itself is impressive. I scan it with the Datalink Scanner. It highlights the cargo hatches and the data points I could break/hack. Except, I cannot, because I lack the two different kinds of limpet controllers required (Hatch Breaker and Recon). Oh well, I leave without interacting with the megaship. About half hour later, I find a new distress signal. I drop in, and there's a stranded ship needing fuel. I'd like to help it, but I cannot, because i lack the Fuel Limpet controller.

I suppose the same could happen with someone meeting a Thargoid (which can be interacted with by means of Research Limpets) or a damaged ship in needs to repair (Repair Limpet).

The moral of the story is: you've worked hard to introduce new assets and new scenarios for us to interact with. But more often than not we will not interact with them, because we don't have the tools for it. Could I have flown over to the nearest station and bought the three kinds of limpet controllers I needed? Sure. But (even assuming that the station had them in stock) that would've taken me quite a bit of extra time, between going there, outfitting it, and then coming back to put back in my Asp the modules I regularly want.

Now, before someone says "well, but I do". Good for you. There's also people who go to Beagle point in a Sidewinder. But I think it is a pretty uncontroversial opinion that the game should, on average, help you perform the actions you want without extra and unnecessary hoops to jump into, especially for new or inexperienced players who aren't even aware of the 8 different kinds of limpet controllers they might need to equip. They are just too many.

We need a Universal Limpet Controller.

This. Universal limpets, still, too. Make a delay in switching modes to incentivize but not require two+ controllers. Done. Game expanded.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i suggested in another thread a programmable, reusable recharging limpet control system. the current one is a bad in game example morally given that in real life we are told we have to recycle and re-use more, etc. yet in the game we have wastful, identical appearing limpets with multiple controllers and the limpets dont return when low on fuel or charge but just die and explode.

i suggested two versions - one where there are 'pseudo' limpet launchers for different purposes; which launch same limpets with a different AI program uploaded. you assign the different functions to different firegroups OR you have one limpet launcher, but you go to right panel and select 'Limpet Function PRogramming' and select the desired purpose.

when limpets get low on battery or fuel or however they work, they refuse to accept more commands other than to return to the limpet controller for refuel/recharge and if needed repair and maintenance. you would have to check the limpet controller and tell it to repair also.

limpets are more risk of damage if used as prospectors. to the point where some prospector limpets cannot disengage and return, and since limpets cannot retrieve each other (they would crush the limpet they went to get hold of) that would need replacing.

limpets that do return with major (more than 50% damage) would need you to have special materials like pollonium or something for the controller to be able to repair.

thats my concept. no more wasteful disposable, throwaway limpet culture. not unless you stick with the cheap old bulky system. the new system being much more advanced... will cost a lot more. AND the controller will draw a LOT more power unfortunately.

but thats the way development would move in real life - heres why; making a universal one unit does it all controller is financiallu lower cost. only need one production line, rather than a split line for different functions. mno need to make batches of each type with downtime to reset the machinery on the production line - indeed you can run the same production lines for limpets and the uni-control 24/7 because they both do it all and dont need custom parts for custom functions. and the competition would find even making the old cheap multiple versions was just not cost effective and unsustainable as a business model in the long run, and come up with their own uni-control limpet system to remain in business.

 

[wstephenson]

I know a Universal Limpet Controller sounds like a great idea, especially compared to the current situation, but I think it would be much too powerful for a single module. There's 8 different Limpet Controllers, which means a ULC would be a single super-module with 8 different functions (and probably more as the game continues to expand). What other module in the game has that many functions? Should such a module with no real downsides be allowed to exist?

Universal limpet actions are power-limited because they do not make ships more powerful in themselves (vertical axis), they just increase the number of actions a ship can perform horizontally. And since most actions are restricted to certain locations, you cannot perform all of the possible actions simultaneously. If you want to increase the *power* of limpet actions, you need more or bigger limpet controllers.

And see my post above. I suggest that basic Universal Limpets would be able to perform any task at a base performance level, but CMDRs would be able to specialize and perform certain tasks better by stocking specialized limpets, eg fast, armoured Assault Limpets for hatch breaking, AX limpets for Decontamination/Research/Collecting in corrosive environments, Haz-Env limpets would be heat-resistant for rescue operations, Transfer Limpets would carry double quantities of cargo or fuel. Etc.