I've pondered this too and my idea was to add an ability to invest in Power Play. You invest tens or hundreds of millions or maybe even billions to a Power's expansion to some direction. If it then succeeds, you get some percentage back. If it fails, you lose a chunk. This would probably be the easiest thing to implement. Sure, being able to build and maintain your own stations would be more interesting, but would take more work and may have some unforeseen side effects. I would love to maintain an outpost in my favourite corner of remote space even if it was at considerable loss, though.
There needs to be a credit sink
- Thread starter Dave1029
- Start date
This is the part where things become complicated.
Players usually enjoy games where they can lose, but that chance of losing is small(-ish) and more of an theoretical concept. Then every player has different definitions of "losing" and different views of how often losing is acceptable.
That's why single player games have difficulty settings. That's why there are different genres and games within genres.
Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game without regions that are used to control the difficulty, no method to control the PvP combat aspect, nothing at all to control the difficulty and chance of losing.
Getting the losing aspect of this game right in a way that does not annoy the majority of the players is close to impossible - without massive changes to the game.
Just imagine this:
Combat against NPCs is designed in a way that 50% of the player base can win the fight in 55% of the time. The result would be that most players would lose a fight more in more than 50% of the cases. A large portion of the player base would lose combat against NPCs more than every second encounter. The result would be that those players would get frustrated with the game very quickly.
At the same time 50% of the players would win combat in a lot of cases, resulting in them getting frustrated by the lack of challenge for them.
In my opinion, getting that balance right is close to impossible in Elite Dangerous.
Introducing a non combat money sink might sound like a good idea on the first glance, but this comes with its own share of problems. Anything that requires a lot of credits/resources to buy/build - bases, mega-ships, fleets - will be considered as the goal of the game. As a result a lot of players will do everything to get there as fast as possible. Demanding more and faster methods to earn a lot more of credits. The exact opposite of the intended money-sink.
Adding high cost for repair and fuel has a similar effect.
Gentlemen, why don't we all take a breather and instead of bickering on the question "Does the game need more end-game content?" we focused on what each of you would like?
You see, I wouldn't mind something like Carriers, player-owned surface structures or small stations to sink the extra credits in.
In my case, I'm in Colonia and I've found some deserted, yet barely 300Ly away systems with very rich planet rings that just await mining all the Painite, Rhodplumsite and other cherry-on-the-top resources. But I'm kinda lazy flying the 10-11 jump route every time. I would love to have sponsored a small space station inside the ring and call like-minded miners to the location so they can call it home for a while, too. And then, when we're bored with the same view, pack it up, find another place.
For me, such end-game content would be a blast.
Can you see yourself using such end-game content to create your own fun?
Yes? Welcome to the party!
No? I respect that - I won't be forcing you to join, play your own way.
So instead of bickering about what you think should or shouldn't be in the game, let's make some space for a discussion?
You never know what good can come out of it.
You see, I wouldn't mind something like Carriers, player-owned surface structures or small stations to sink the extra credits in.
In my case, I'm in Colonia and I've found some deserted, yet barely 300Ly away systems with very rich planet rings that just await mining all the Painite, Rhodplumsite and other cherry-on-the-top resources. But I'm kinda lazy flying the 10-11 jump route every time. I would love to have sponsored a small space station inside the ring and call like-minded miners to the location so they can call it home for a while, too. And then, when we're bored with the same view, pack it up, find another place.
For me, such end-game content would be a blast.
Can you see yourself using such end-game content to create your own fun?
Yes? Welcome to the party!
No? I respect that - I won't be forcing you to join, play your own way.
So instead of bickering about what you think should or shouldn't be in the game, let's make some space for a discussion?
You never know what good can come out of it.
I want that moon base/space station. And I want to be able to earn it in my lifetime
(And I don't see bickering, I see a discussion honestly. I've seen much worse threads on this topic
)
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FDev "just" needs to start using the environment more to create different difficulty levels.
The only "currency" in any game is time. Time is the only thing nobody can give you more of.
I want that moon base/space station. And I want to be able to earn it in my lifetime
(And I don't see bickering, I see a discussion honestly. I've seen much worse threads on this Topic
I see I should've worded my response differently - by "bickering" I meant discussing wrong topic of what should/shouldn't be in the game, not the tone of the discussion which I agree with you is quite civilized.
I just think we can easily throw any ideas around, even if slightly ridiculous because in the end, Frontier will make the decision of what to implement, or not implement.
So let's throw end-game content ideas around - you never know, maybe they like some of them and we'll get them in the future
Oh dear, I already see all the posts about dropping into threat 10 USS and being salty for dying or getting killed in anarchy because the mission there was soooo lucrative
But that's the way to go imho [up]
The main problem is with current FD Game designers team this will never be happend, they already ruining nice mechanics which they already had. They unable to deliver fun combinations of what is already implemented. Take for example Hello Games with No Man Sky, they done huge work with community, they try to listen their community and delivering one big update after another one. When I saw new FSS, it was like a miricle, and catch myself thinking, that it was designed and implemented by the separate team. So it is great to Elite is starting to turn to the direction which everyone is waiting for.
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In this kind of game people need to get off the high horses, thinking everyone should be able to succeed at everything. There should be more challenges like Thargoid Hydras(, but more connected to the game world).Oh dear, I already see all the posts about dropping into threat 10 USS and being salty for dying or getting killed in anarchy because the mission there was soooo lucrative
But that's the way to go imho [up]
And how difficult should these environments be?
Why would anybody go there?
If there is a reason to go there all players will want to go there. Main solution for that would be to make the difficulty primarily dependent on gear used - like in so many MMOs.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
this is the same logic i have used for some people need to accept that they may never put in the time into the game to be able to afford an anaconda or corvette or cutter (because they are aimed at being super expensive "end game" equipment***
it did not go down well!.
***I include myself i may never be able to get a cutter/corvette due to me not cheesing (in my view) the game to get them super fast.
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Oh dear, I already see all the posts about dropping into threat 10 USS and being salty for dying or getting killed in anarchy because the mission there was soooo lucrative
But that's the way to go imho [up]
I did that by accident - reading threat 10 as threat 0 - I was dead before the FSD could charge up! Apart from being a long way from the closest station it was really funny, in a twisted sort of way
I'm more of a mind that we should be let do whatever we want.
The premise of selling a game/sim/experience is to provide the the player with an engaging experience they enjoy. Doing it successfully, yields more sales and continueing expansion sales.
Elite Dangerous at it's very heart is an experience, one that the player is to contrive using the galaxy, missions, ships, utilities provided. It is not the job of FDev to hold our hands or to insist anything in such a setting. After all, is it not our remit, but to blaze our own trail?
The problem, without aiming at anyone, is the playerbase itself. Some want to hand held and some want somethign to do with all the credits they have. Some want more depth and some want players to kill.
let me say it straight. Fdevs only job is to provide the sandbox and the sand. If you kick that sand in someone else face, that's between you and the other player. It is not the job of Fdev to mediate. But, they do, to the detriment of the sandbox.
Telling us you can only built a sandcastle worth x even with all that sand, is just wrong. They should take a step back and say 'hey boys and girls, heres the toys, go play with them'. Dont like them? tough. Do like them? Enjoy.
Saying you have 50bn or whatever and crying that you have nothing to spend it on in, is silly. You went and earned the credits knowing then, you'd have nothing to spend them on, so why do it?
Crying cuz jimmy sand-kicker kicked sand in your eyes, when you had a corner where Jimmy couldn't go, is likewise silly. It's a bit like me going overseas to a combat worn country and complaining I got shot.
All personal opinion.. I just want toys. Toys that work. And no, I don;t want batteries
The premise of selling a game/sim/experience is to provide the the player with an engaging experience they enjoy. Doing it successfully, yields more sales and continueing expansion sales.
Elite Dangerous at it's very heart is an experience, one that the player is to contrive using the galaxy, missions, ships, utilities provided. It is not the job of FDev to hold our hands or to insist anything in such a setting. After all, is it not our remit, but to blaze our own trail?
The problem, without aiming at anyone, is the playerbase itself. Some want to hand held and some want somethign to do with all the credits they have. Some want more depth and some want players to kill.
let me say it straight. Fdevs only job is to provide the sandbox and the sand. If you kick that sand in someone else face, that's between you and the other player. It is not the job of Fdev to mediate. But, they do, to the detriment of the sandbox.
Telling us you can only built a sandcastle worth x even with all that sand, is just wrong. They should take a step back and say 'hey boys and girls, heres the toys, go play with them'. Dont like them? tough. Do like them? Enjoy.
Saying you have 50bn or whatever and crying that you have nothing to spend it on in, is silly. You went and earned the credits knowing then, you'd have nothing to spend them on, so why do it?
Crying cuz jimmy sand-kicker kicked sand in your eyes, when you had a corner where Jimmy couldn't go, is likewise silly. It's a bit like me going overseas to a combat worn country and complaining I got shot.
All personal opinion.. I just want toys. Toys that work. And no, I don;t want batteries
Very simple, for example spawn a debris of megaships or space station, or even an different Arenas when you got interdicted, this will bring the whole layer of gameplay, hiding and shoting on small ships in these structures for example, using natural cover etc. because in current state straight line fighting is very boring, the winner is these who spend enormous time for engineers grind, and not your piloting skills.
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But that is the thing : we already have the mechanics in place to allow players from all skill levels to play and find some fun if rebuy is used as a mechanic to moderate your earnings and the level of challenge you are faced with. And Frontier already agree with that idea! Have security level play a dramatic role in what kind of enemies you will face and how likely you are to see the rebuy screen. That way low skill or casual players can stick to peaceful areas of space, and those seeking for more thrills can head for the cut-throat systems.
It is already technically a thing, but there is a hard cap to the NPCs that even anarchies will throw at you, or the police that will go after a criminal in high security space outside of ATR intervention. As it stands, even a low skilled player can easily cross an anarchy system controlled by the worst scoundrels unopposed in a Type 9 . A good part of that is down to the interdiction minigame needing replacing as Frontier has never been able to make it work correctly (it's just too simplistic and doesn't let skill come into it). The other part is the high wake I-win button which lets you skip virtually everything that isn't so grossly overpowered like the ATRs (or other players) that it can kill you in a matter of seconds.
Speaking of ATR, they are precisely the kind of enemies you want at or near the top of the skill sliding scale. But they are used way too sparingly, they aren't persistent enough and only come into play in some very specific situations which you can easily avoid. We need more of that, and not just targetting criminals with notoriety, and hopefully outside of the bloody USS system.
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I'm more of a mind that we should be let do whatever we want.
The premise of selling a game/sim/experience is to provide the the player with an engaging experience they enjoy. Doing it successfully, yields more sales and continueing expansion sales.
Elite Dangerous at it's very heart is an experience, one that the player is to contrive using the galaxy, missions, ships, utilities provided. It is not the job of FDev to hold our hands or to insist anything in such a setting. After all, is it not our remit, but to blaze our own trail?
The problem, without aiming at anyone, is the playerbase itself. Some want to hand held and some want somethign to do with all the credits they have. Some want more depth and some want players to kill.
let me say it straight. Fdevs only job is to provide the sandbox and the sand. If you kick that sand in someone else face, that's between you and the other player. It is not the job of Fdev to mediate. But, they do, to the detriment of the sandbox.
Telling us you can only built a sandcastle worth x even with all that sand, is just wrong. They should take a step back and say 'hey boys and girls, heres the toys, go play with them'. Dont like them? tough. Do like them? Enjoy.
Saying you have 50bn or whatever and crying that you have nothing to spend it on in, is silly. You went and earned the credits knowing then, you'd have nothing to spend them on, so why do it?
Crying cuz jimmy sand-kicker kicked sand in your eyes, when you had a corner where Jimmy couldn't go, is likewise silly. It's a bit like me going overseas to a combat worn country and complaining I got shot.
All personal opinion.. I just want toys. Toys that work. And no, I don;t want batteries
that is fine if you want a pure sandbox. FD sold the game as more than that however, they told us we were getting an in depth economy as well as telling us about rpg like elements such as building relationships with crew members and wingmates which depending on our actions or where we hired them from they may betray you and what not..........
Whilst i am not expecting a hand held fully narrative based experience, i was expecting a plausible setting in a science fiction universe rather than a full on sandbox - which is what you seem to be saying elite is marketed as?.
If I remember correctly FDev adjusted the interdiction mini-game because it was to difficult for the majority of players.
Thing is, what you consider easy might be very difficult for others. Only FDev has the numbers how many players win interdictions and if they don't evade the interdiction how many survive the subsequent fight.
And then there is the problem of ship balance. Hi-waking is needed as a way to address this huge imbalance and the differences in play style. (And FDev already made hi-waking more difficult since 1.0).
These are so very basic questions regarding game design, that makes me wonder, if you have played any other open world games besides Elite.
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This is a perfectly reasonable argument. By the way, I haven seen any sim racer complaining to a game dev, that they should make the game easier for him, so he could archive a top time on circuit X.
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One of my favourite things to read on these forums are the "Please flay us FDEV for having the audacity to play the game!" threads.
Like this one.
Thanks, I hate it.
Like this one.
Thanks, I hate it.