Beyond is great but please let the next updates focus on combat and PvP

[PiLhEaD]

..... The real kicker would be how to tweak it so it's useful for pirating but not so useful for simply immobilising a ship while you murder them.

Yes that is a bit of an issue. Perhaps it generates a temporary field around the disabled ship where all weapon fire has no effect, as a side effect of the underlying Thargoid tech.

Perhaps this field remains around the ship for just long enough after power returns to allow escape, or maybe upon dissolving the disabled ship is moved to a nearby system with no warp signature, or maybe into witchspace?

Maybe the weapon can only be used once the victim's shield are down, to make fight/flight viable.

Just rambling ideas here.

 

[Morbad]

Pirates, bandits, kidnappers, highwaymen, muggers, etc, have historically been disinclined to kill the majority of compliant victims because doing so would both drive off potential victims, attract more attention (and harsher penalties) from authorities and/or privateers, and encourage any potential victims that remain to resist future attacks more aggressively.

I'd far rather have game mechansims that strove for such a situation than fantastical and gamist 'solutions' that somehow renders a target both inert and invulnerable until it's cargo has been taken, both because of the sheer absurdity of the later and it's obvious potential for abuse.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...I'd far rather have game mechansims that strove for such a situation than fantastical and gamist 'solutions' ....

What actual mechanisms do you propose?

 

[Slange Lands]

Some thoughts after reading parts of this thread:

I really have to praise Zarek Null and his cronies for creating the Tinman and Aisling Kidnapping events. This is great PvP and it would behoove the entire community if more events like this could happen. However, it takes an enormous amount of work and coordination that is not unlike creating Distant Worlds 2. And that amount of work and organization is the issue.

Frankly, PvPers, I really wouldn't wait for Fdev to come up with a solution for empty gameplay.

Perhaps with the help of squadrons, maybe PvPers could organize into a consortium and create a calendar season of events not unlike sports? Each member of the PvP consortium would be responsible for creating an event so that that responsibility and work is shared. Members of the entire community, especially writers and rpers could be canvassed for interesting event scenarios...

A PvP Dungeonmaster would be so cool.......

o7

 

[Havvk]

OP i can vouch for this.

For the first 2 years of my play, all frontier did was combat related changes. Go on admit it. Im not a combat first player.. so i sat there thinking frontier were like the best developers on the planet, thinking they were some kind of blizzard that made games my liking and could be fond of, all sorts of dumb things.

This patch frontier looked at my gameplay styles styles finally.. and my god...

I humbly and fully retract every single thought i had wondering why people complained so much when frontier change the game. Now that its my turn... sorry '16 era pvp players, i finally understand.

Now you're just hating on 3.3 because "it's hip to hate it"



We've been needing this for years. Is it perfect? Yes, compared to the old way. But that does not mean it doesn't need some QoL tweaks to make it a bit userfluid and understandable.

 

[Valorin]

I actually, and really never understood why Elite has been made to support PvP so much. It's so much work that goes into balancing and people always complain no matter what is being changed. And then there is the idea of the best and most powerful ship ever, and every player just a bit into PvP has a ship that snipes the average ship from the universe with the push of a button while there's little that can be done if you fly an explorer or trader. For me the balance between PvP and non-PvP outfitted ships is completely broken in a way.
So why did they put so much effort into it when there are so many other games offering PvP for everyone. Elite could be the hell of a modern space sim. The only one actually. I mean, it still is, but the most compromises to that have been made for combat balance. So many tweaks and time spend on creating balance and weapons, weapons and weapons. Most mechanics in the past have combat as focus.

We mine materials on planet surfaces by using a weapon shooting rocks instead of having a proper mining tool that can also be used to shoot things. But no, has to be a cool dual blaster thing...
We have ship launched _Fighters_ in 3 human variants, even with different loadouts. Plus Guardian Fighters. We don't have ship launched vessels. For scientific gameplay like taking samples, which does not exist. For mining support and advanced collecting and prospecting mechanisms to finally not be dependent on limpets anymore.
There are lots and lots and lots of Guardian weapons to unlock and other modules for better shields, armour, and so on. The FSD booster and the power plant is all I needed to unlock though I have tons of guardian materials because I actually really enjoy exploring and spending time at the ruins. But I absolutely don't need a single other Guardian module. Where is hybrid tech for scanning, or do whatever scientific stuff we could do if there where mechanics for that in the game?

Most ships released over the past two years (counting variants here) are pretty good for combat or even dedicated. There has been the Dolphin and with the Krait MK2 we also got a good alrounder. The Phantom... Wow. The one ship that is really a great explorer. So far I never want to fly something else again. Well... because there is so little choice. I mean, of course, that Guardian booster makes every ship kind of an explorer, doesn't it? That's because there are so little dedicated mechanics for exploration! The only module I can think of is the Detailed Surface Scanner. You won't take that with you for combat I guess. Perhaps the SRV, but that thing has so many other functions as well... Well, why does it? Because the only thing it does is shoot and scan, which is being used for mining, killing, scanning everything.

Before I get on and into a full rant I just stop here. More combat? Really? No way.

 

[Toumal]

Let's see...

Most of the Elite Dangerous updates so far has been focusing on combat in some way shape or form. You got:

x) New weapons
x) Engineering
x) New weapons
x) Powerplay
x) New weapons
x) Engineering v2
x) New weapons
x) Fighters
x) New weapons
x) AX Weapons
x) New weapons
x) Guardian Weapons
x) New weapons
x) New weapons
x) Guardian mods
and new weapons.

Don't get me wrong, combat is the main activity in the game. But what OP is doing is just screaming for attention without reason. If combat got equal attention to exploration, then you'd not get a new gun or combat mechanic for the next 3 years.

 

[B1rdy]

Let's see...

Again, OP is not screaming for more combat tools!

 

[00nutzy]

Again, OP is not screaming for more combat tools!

Actually the OP states he/she wants more attention given to combat and PvP.

The reality is that more attention has been given to combat than any other part of the game. Most updates have had something to do with combat.
The most recent one finally focuses on exploration and mining but still offers changes to the bgs, conflict states etc.

The focus may not be what the OP wanted but to claim or infer that combat has gotten nothing is flat out wrong.
It would be nice to see some actual mechanics that allow PvP to directly affect things or more combat missions other than kill x of y, but to claim combat gets no love from FD is either self delusion or disingenuous.

I am pretty confident FDev will continue to improve combat in future updates, maybe even PvP I am also fairly certain it wont please many of the people it is intended to please.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Again, OP is not screaming for more combat tools!

Absolutely correct - he is asking for PvP to be a profession...

He did also mention in passing that it was taking too long to 'kill' similarly equipped ships and it was boring (only paraphrased slightly) only having the 'same old targets'.
I do wonder how PvP could be made worthwhile (and paying a bonus) in the current iteration of the game as those who wish to be in PvP have their 'meta' builds (which are so hard to kill) and those who really don't, dont.

I do hope that some solution can be found for him

 

[Mohrgan]

Absolutely correct - he is asking for PvP to be a profession...

He did also mention in passing that it was taking too long to 'kill' similarly equipped ships and it was boring (only paraphrased slightly) only having the 'same old targets'.
I do wonder how PvP could be made worthwhile (and paying a bonus) in the current iteration of the game as those who wish to be in PvP have their 'meta' builds (which are so hard to kill) and those who really don't, dont.

I do hope that some solution can be found for him

Solutions have been offered. Even one, at least, in this thread. What is needed, is for some consensus to form around an acceptable concept, to allow for PvP to become a profession. This is what seems impossible. There have been many suggestions put forth, some fanatical, some unimaginative, with others being more liberal, and more in kind with the setting, and design of the game. What all of these suggestions share, is an utter lack of acceptance and follow through.

At a minimum a possible to enact improvement has to offer combat/PvP some meaning and influence of the game's mechanics, while not being punitive and take game play, or choice from anyone. Good wishes are not enough to produce good changes.

 

[AP Birdman]

Let's see...

Most of the Elite Dangerous updates so far has been focusing on combat in some way shape or form. You got:

x) New weapons
x) Engineering
x) New weapons
x) Powerplay
x) New weapons
x) Engineering v2
x) New weapons
x) Fighters
x) New weapons
x) AX Weapons
x) New weapons
x) Guardian Weapons
x) New weapons
x) New weapons
x) Guardian mods
and new weapons.

Don't get me wrong, combat is the main activity in the game. But what OP is doing is just screaming for attention without reason. If combat got equal attention to exploration, then you'd not get a new gun or combat mechanic for the next 3 years.

Lololol look another one.

 

[AP Birdman]

Actually the OP states he/she wants more attention given to combat and PvP.

The reality is that more attention has been given to combat than any other part of the game. Most updates have had something to do with combat.
The most recent one finally focuses on exploration and mining but still offers changes to the bgs, conflict states etc.

The focus may not be what the OP wanted but to claim or infer that combat has gotten nothing is flat out wrong.
It would be nice to see some actual mechanics that allow PvP to directly affect things or more combat missions other than kill x of y, but to claim combat gets no love from FD is either self delusion or disingenuous.

I am pretty confident FDev will continue to improve combat in future updates, maybe even PvP I am also fairly certain it wont please many of the people it is intended to please.

I haven't said combat has had nothing. I've said PvP has had nothing and you can't argue with me on that.

In this thread I am clearly asking for upgrades to pvp and pve in the way that mining was just upgrade.

And all these people saying I'm screaming or demanding anything are just acting like fools. It's pretty pathetic.

The difference between asking and demanding is pretty huge and at no point have I demanded anything.

 

[AP Birdman]

Some thoughts after reading parts of this thread:

I really have to praise Zarek Null and his cronies for creating the Tinman and Aisling Kidnapping events. This is great PvP and it would behoove the entire community if more events like this could happen. However, it takes an enormous amount of work and coordination that is not unlike creating Distant Worlds 2. And that amount of work and organization is the issue.

Frankly, PvPers, I really wouldn't wait for Fdev to come up with a solution for empty gameplay.

Perhaps with the help of squadrons, maybe PvPers could organize into a consortium and create a calendar season of events not unlike sports? Each member of the PvP consortium would be responsible for creating an event so that that responsibility and work is shared. Members of the entire community, especially writers and rpers could be canvassed for interesting event scenarios...

A PvP Dungeonmaster would be so cool.......

o7

Actually we we are pretty well organized, at least on the Xbox side and I'm pretty PC is even more so.
We've been organized for a long time, the problem is just the lack of rewards for PvP and the lack of "good guy" squadrons to fight.

I see the biggest problem though, is the fact that so few players are willing to even try pvp because the only thing you're guaranteed is a rebuy screen.
Fdev really need to add some kind of incentive for people to try PvP.
Mohrgans idea of vouchers that could be turned in for money is a fantastic idea although I think it should be tied to powerplay. I think by using powerplay, players can no longer say "he blew me up for no reason". If I'm aligned with Aisling Duval and I'm hunting players aligned to Felicia Winters to help expand Aislings territory, it gives reason for me to PvP.

I really wish you all could see how PvP works in Elder Scrolls Online because I think that kind of a system would work really well in this game.

 

[AP Birdman]

Absolutely correct - he is asking for PvP to be a profession...

He did also mention in passing that it was taking too long to 'kill' similarly equipped ships and it was boring (only paraphrased slightly) only having the 'same old targets'.
I do wonder how PvP could be made worthwhile (and paying a bonus) in the current iteration of the game as those who wish to be in PvP have their 'meta' builds (which are so hard to kill) and those who really don't, dont.

I do hope that some solution can be found for him

This is something I'd actually really like to discuss is the time to kill for fully engineered ships and a buff to damage for medium and small hardpoints to make small ships more of a viable choice for PvP.

In my opinion, and this may sound crazy, I'd like to see the damage of all weapons get DOUBLED. As well as armor ratings for lightweight alloys to increase. Otherwise, players with non combat builds would get wrecked without the chance to submit and high wake out. What do you guys think?

 

[Morbad]

In my opinion, and this may sound crazy, I'd like to see the damage of all weapons get DOUBLED.

Would be a major problem for modules and could lead to further inflation.

Better to reduce the effectiveness of shields.

As well as armor ratings for lightweight alloys to increase. Otherwise, players with non combat builds would get wrecked without the chance to submit and high wake out.

This was already done to many ships, and I was generally not in favor of these change. Submitting and high-waking should not be a fool proof escape, especially for those who didn't take the potential for hostilities seriously.

 

[B1rdy]

Has anyone suggested PvP only combat zones? Maybe also around some structures or even stations. It would be a bit like destiny with its separate modes.

 

[Julio Montega]

Improving PvP and combat is easy.
Just remove the hitpoint inflation by banning all the modules creating it

 

[Mohrgan]

Improving PvP and combat is easy.
Just remove the hitpoint inflation by banning all the modules creating it

Doing so would make PvP more appealing across the board? Doing so would give PvP impact and meaning within the galaxy? Doing so would make PvP self sustaining as a way to earn credits? No.

Dropping in to mention a peeve may be self gratifying, but it does nothing to move this, or any, discussion along. It is part and parcel to why things stay exactly as they are.

 

[DukeIronHand]

This thread is still going on eh?
Thought it was clear by now, by design and by mechanics, that this game will never, ever, support “meaningful” PvP. Assuming we can agree on what “meaningful” means. Probably not...
You boys that want it better come up with your own ideas and a PG for it.
Assuming your fellows can follow their own rules. Probably not. People...