Can a Combat Veteran please tell me what I did wrong in this situation?

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Because I just got absolutely annihilated in literally about 7 seconds in my new Mamba.

My Mamba

- Fully A-rated across the board

- G3 DD

- G4 FSD

- 2 Turreted beam lasers

- 2 Turreted Pulse lasers

- 1 Huge Gimballed cannon

- 5A shield generator and 2 A rated shield boosters

- 1 Point defense module


Not the best build I admit, but I thought it was at least functional and would get me through a basic combat mission.


The Story
I snagged a "Pirate Lord" bounty at my home station that was 3 million and it was Expert level. I decided to do it as a test run of my new Mamba and I jump to the next system over and use the FSS (god help me I hate that thing) and then proceed to fly out to where my mission signal was. It was classified as a Threat 4 so I had no worries at all. I fall out of Supercruise and I am confronted with a Python, a Vulture, and a Sidewinder. I also have a security service Anaconda and Viper on my side that were already there. I think to myself "Ha this will be cake!" wait for the Conda to fire first and get their attention and activate my turrets on the Vulture.



Something hits the nose of my ship almost immediately, blinds me, and I am IMMEDIATELY without shields. 100% to NOTHING in a single shot and then I proceed to get just utterly destroyed. I was able to boost exactly once and then my thrusters were malfunctioning and then I was dead. The whole thing took about 7-8 seconds from me activating my turrets to me getting blown up. Now I am not the greatest Combat pilot in the world, but I still fail to understand what exactly I did wrong? I have faced more ships than that before with alot less help before and came out more or less just fine. But these guys completely waxed me in seconds.



So what exactly happened here?



Bad luck? Bug? My fault?

 

[Ethaidan]

Not enough info about your build - especially your armour (lightweight, military, Reactive) and engineering.

Maybe post a link to your build?

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

What happened was, you put turrets on a nimble ship and wasted DPS. Lol
You should also have more than 2 shield boosters.

You probably came up against an engineered NPC and got owned. It's not uncommon.

You also shot the wrong target first.

Target the smallest first. In this case, the sidewinder. That's 2x less hardpoints going on you.

Sounds like a PA hit you and ripped your shields apart.
Without details, i imagine your shields are just weak. Engineer them for capacity and thermal resistance.

Also sounds like you didn't have military armour installed. If you have weak shields, strong hull is very important.
If you can't afford strong armour, max out your shields instead, and run immediately if they drop. You should be able to outrun any NPC in a Mamba.

Other than that, I'd need more details an video to assist.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Not enough info about your build - especially your armour (lightweight, military, Reactive) and engineering.

Maybe post a link to your build?

I had Lightweight armor. I didn't think of that.

 

[Stigbob]

Hit the escorts first, the biggy wont be able to consistently target you while you fight them.

Ditch all the turrets.

Try gimballed instead, if you can use fixed they are even better as you can fire as fixed if they chaff otherwise you get more time on target whilst doing crazy flying. Best of both worlds.

Bung guardian shield boosters in all the spare slots, which for assassination is everything other than shield and cells.

Put some heavy shield hitters like beams in the hardpoints but keep the huge cannon as is, once the shields are down target the generator you should be able to knock it out very quickly (four or five good hits with a huge cannon).

Maybe a small corrosive mc just to grab the damage boost.

You don't need armour run before your shields drop, it just slows you down.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Hit the escorts first, the biggy wont be able to consistently target you while you fight them.

Ditch all the turrets.

Try gimballed instead, if you can use fixed they are even better as you can fire as fixed if they chaff otherwise you get more time on target whilst doing crazy flying. Best of both worlds.

Bung guardian shield boosters in all the spare slots, which for assassination is everything other than shield and cells.

Put some heavy shield hitters like beams in the hardpoints but keep the huge cannon as is, once the shields are down target the generator you should be able to knock it out very quickly (four or five good hits with a huge cannon).

Maybe a small corrosive mc just to grab the damage boost.

You don't need armour run before your shields drop, it just slows you down.

Okay I will do what I can from most of that. (I Still don't have Guardian stuff. I know. I am terrible.)


Quick question though is the "ditch all the turrets" advice exclusive to the Mamba? Or does that apply to other ships.....like say the Conda? My Anaconda has turrets galore because of how the thing handles. I like being able to shoot at people I can't even see.

 

[Stigbob]

Okay I will do what I can from most of that. (I Still don't have Guardian stuff. I know. I am terrible.)


Quick question though is the "ditch all the turrets" advice exclusive to the Mamba? Or does that apply to other ships.....like say the Conda? My Anaconda has turrets galore because of how the thing handles. I like being able to shoot at people I can't even see.

I never use turrets at all on the annie sometimes a small pair down below but I've switched them for SCB wrecking rail guns now, I prefer having direct control over everything. If a targets too small and fast I just reverse tank it which is a really quick kill in any of the big three.

I've gone for bi-weave on my mamba all the boosters it can carry and I added the guardian stuff later totally viable without it provided you run before your shields drop.

Keep boosting and stay out of the line of fire, roll so the big targets sideways to your vertical and use up/down thrusters to move away from the guns along the targets yaw axis that way it'll struggle to bring any heavy forward stuff to bear at all (which is probably what got you). If you can sit on the tail you've cracked it, but that's harder to do now as the NPC's are countering better.

The mamba's damn fast so if it goes wrong throttle up pips to engines boost and get out of range, with the speed advantage you can completely control the engagement as in it only happens if you want it to. The target might jump out if you do that, but it'll respawn so no worries.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Agree with what everyone says here, just adding some detail on my Mamba in case it's useful.

Gimballed large lasers as others have said, mine are efficient engineered.

Small gimballed overcharged multicannons, one with corrosive so I can fit autoloader on the huge multi. Although the second multicannon is there for symmetry, fit what you want here.

Shields, critically, over 1000mj.The Mamba is a fast ship, so it doesn't feel right to me weighing it down with hull reinforcements.

I wouldn't use turrets on anything other than a dedicated trader or an Anaconda, Cutter or T-10. My opinion though, a lot of this depends on what you enjoy doing. Have fun with your ship!

 

[Siobhan]

Isn't it strange? Now, all the advice given here has indeed been very good, but it all seems to share one idea... They all suggest using engineered and/or guardian gear.
In this case of course, the OP has stated he has access, but hasn't done the thing yet, but this is only an Expert rated mission. If one needs engineering/guardian gear to have a chance, then it means that such missions are locked from non-horizons players, which was not always the case. This is the very definition of Pay-To-Win!

 

[Burke]

Take what i say with a pinch of salt

Firstly turrets on a mamba, secondly the sidewinder was your primary target. They melt so fast and it eliminates one set of guns from the fight and gives you numbers. Third, ouch that just sounds like bad luck. You hit something that was harder then you.

 

[znôrt]

Isn't it strange? Now, all the advice given here has indeed been very good, but it all seems to share one idea... They all suggest using engineered and/or guardian gear.
In this case of course, the OP has stated he has access, but hasn't done the thing yet, but this is only an Expert rated mission. If one needs engineering/guardian gear to have a chance, then it means that such missions are locked from non-horizons players, which was not always the case. This is the very definition of Pay-To-Win!

good call.

 

[Factabulous]

Isn't it strange? Now, all the advice given here has indeed been very good, but it all seems to share one idea... They all suggest using engineered and/or guardian gear.
In this case of course, the OP has stated he has access, but hasn't done the thing yet, but this is only an Expert rated mission. If one needs engineering/guardian gear to have a chance, then it means that such missions are locked from non-horizons players, which was not always the case. This is the very definition of Pay-To-Win!

I think most would also agree that losing to an expert NPC in an unengineered but well outfitted is pretty difficult. Most are suggesting stuff as a skill compensator - make of that what you will, but certainly not P2W.

Anyway, Christmas

 

[Siobhan]

I think most would also agree that losing to an expert NPC in an unengineered but well outfitted is pretty difficult. Most are suggesting stuff as a skill compensator - make of that what you will, but certainly not P2W.

Anyway, Christmas

Hope you're right. will have to see how many more of these threads we see over the next few weeks/months.

And as you say, 'tis Christmas, or Saturnalia, or Hogswatch, or something... time for Zaoncean Leathery-Egg Ommlettes and Roast Thargoid with all the trimmings.
I do hope your afternoon is as fun as ours is... that stilton we got has turned out to be about the best I've found...

 

[Villeruff]

Do you remember if the mission had a wing icon? I've found some of those targets will even give my well-engineered Cutter a run for its money.

 

[Stigbob]

Isn't it strange? Now, all the advice given here has indeed been very good, but it all seems to share one idea... They all suggest using engineered and/or guardian gear.
In this case of course, the OP has stated he has access, but hasn't done the thing yet, but this is only an Expert rated mission. If one needs engineering/guardian gear to have a chance, then it means that such missions are locked from non-horizons players, which was not always the case. This is the very definition of Pay-To-Win!

Its not a necessity or relevant to this thread. I doubt there's many players without horizons anyway.

 

[Ashnak]

Hard to tell without actually being there, but assuming that you weren't targeted by the police, you probably took the full brunt of an engineered plasma Python in the face. Yes, high level NPCs can use engineering. In addition, you may also simultaneously have been at the receiving end of the Vulture's TLC. If that one also had OC'ed PAs, a single salvo from both of them would have been sufficient to strip your shields - especially if you didn't run 4 pips to shields. NPCs don't care about heat damage to their ships.

Yes, I do have the impression that the threat levels got somewhat adapted (christmas present from MoM?) - I just had a retired Admiral for 1.3 MCr. who turned out to be a pirate lord in a very fast and nimble FdL. The corresponding Mission SS was labelled at "Threat 1".

What you could have done better? Guessing:
- run 4-2-0 until you actually know who is who, have selected your target and can start shooting
- don't hang around in front of a Python
- my priority in that fight? Not sure, but unlikely to be the Sidey. Yes, it would have melted if you were able to hit him full on, but they're hard to hit (NPCs use chaff, too) and mostly would provide a distraction while the Vulture spanks your backside. So perhaps go for the Vulture first, then check your status and decide whether you can afford to further ignore the Sidey until you've finished off the Python
- if your shields have been stripped that fast and easily, run to fight another day

 

[seanguzzi]

Some other possibilities:
1. Rammed (inadvertently) by the Anaconda or the Python.
2. Assassination targets can sometimes remain Clean, so it's possible you became Wanted and incurred the wrath of every ship present.

Maybe have a peek at your journal file, if you're on PC.

 

[tolm]

I think NPCs have got seriously more capable since 3.3. Tried a wing assassination mission with my son (he in an admittedly very average build FDL but me in a highly engineered Corvette) and we got seriously owned. He got destroyed pretty quick but I got the target (a Dangerous FDL) down with just one ring of my shields left and then attempted to take the two Vultures on. Twin C4 G3 Efficient Beams were barely scratching their shields, it was just insane. I escaped with 13% Hull left ...

I am now learning to use Shield Cell banks. I’ve put it off for over a year as I hate the things but there’s just no avoiding it now.

 

[Xious]

I would suggest trying a Haz Res for tests...

 

[Stigbob]

I think NPCs have got seriously more capable since 3.3. Tried an wing assassination mission with my son (he in an admittedly very average build FDL but me in a highly engineered Corvette) and we got seriously owned. He got destroyed pretty quick but I got the target (a Dangerous FDL) down with just one ring of my shields left and then attempted to take the two Vultures on. Twin C4 G3 Efficient Beams were barely scratching their shields, it was just insane. I escaped with 13% Hull left ...

I am now learning to use Shield Cell banks. I’ve put it off for over a year as I hate the things but there’s just no avoiding it now.

Its definitely harder to stay behind them since the patch, I think MOM has graced us with her presence. All good fun.