Can a Combat Veteran please tell me what I did wrong in this situation?

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
OP, if you could post your build via https://coriolis.edcd.io/ (EDMC can upload it right from the game!) we'll have a lot more information to work with.

Right now I'm concerned with your shields, armor, and your pip management. It sounds like you either got rammed or hit with plasma - that can do a lot of damage if you don't have pips into SYS!
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Siobhan said:
Isn't it strange? Now, all the advice given here has indeed been very good, but it all seems to share one idea... They all suggest using engineered and/or guardian gear.
In this case of course, the OP has stated he has access, but hasn't done the thing yet, but this is only an Expert rated mission. If one needs engineering/guardian gear to have a chance, then it means that such missions are locked from non-horizons players, which was not always the case. This is the very definition of Pay-To-Win!
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It's a crutch, to bridge the lack of skill for that encounter, not a prerequisite.

And there should be some scaling.
A noob in a (poorly) half engineered ship should not be able to take on all opponents.
That is nonsense from the get go.
 
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Siobhan

Siobhan
Bob Lighthouse said:
It's a crutch, to bridge the lack of skill for that encounter, not a prerequisite.

And there should be some scaling.
A noob in a (poorly) half engineered ship should not be able to take on all opponents.
That is nonsense from the get go.
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It is a crutch, sure, but an experienced Cmdr shouldn't need engineering to take on most. Perhaps they won't get an easy win, but 8 seconds?
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Siobhan said:
It is a crutch, sure, but an experienced Cmdr shouldn't need engineering to take on most. Perhaps they won't get an easy win, but 8 seconds?
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I'm not concerned about the time.
We need more details.

Generally, defensive hit-point inflation is a much bigger problem, not offense.
Quick kills don't surprise or concern me that much.

OP only had 2 A rated boosters and LW armor, and who knows what else was going on.
That's just not going to hold up well against any solid attack.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Siobhan said:
It is a crutch, sure, but an experienced Cmdr shouldn't need engineering to take on most. Perhaps they won't get an easy win, but 8 seconds?
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It was probably a target ram with added plasma plus escort ship fire. The NPC's are now evading better which means trying to boost past you to get behind.

My mamba's fully G5'd but I still need to avoid ship collisions with anything medium or up to stay in the fight. Its not like the FDL where you can just ram boost through the first escort you need to treat it like a glass cannon, just as much fun but very different.
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Bob Lighthouse said:
I'm not concerned about the time.
We need more details.

Generally, defensive hit-point inflation is a much bigger problem, not offense.
Quick kills don't surprise or concern me that much.

OP only had 2 A rated boosters and LW armor, and who knows what else was going on.
That's just not going to hold up well against any solid attack.
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But don't I keep hearing that we need to increase the logout timer as it's impossible to kill a commander in 30s let alone the 15s it takes to log out... Then an Expert NPC does it in half that?

Yes I know, the commander should have been more prepared, should have done this, that and the other. Expert is just middling level, there are 4 higher.

Was the OP unlucky? Probably. I know if it had been another player who'd killed him, there'd be the usual "git gud" jeers from the peanut gallery. Or are NPC's back to the post engineering Uber death killing machines that caused so much angst? I dunno.

Following eagerly as I'm interested in learning.

For the record, I've seen them tougher than I was used to before the upgrade, but so far, nothing off the scale. Maybe I've been lucky.
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Pirate lord "assassination" missions with multiple targets are usually wing missions.
Those have engineered, fairly aggressive NPCs.
That would end up like the OPs story for many people.

The "pirate massacre" missions give a mission POI now, and have multiple ships.
They are easier than the assassination missions, and they aren't packing as many engineered weapons it seems, if any.
Maybe the wing leader does; an FDL or FAS, ime.
I've only done a couple of those since the update however.
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Bob Lighthouse said:
Pirate lord "assassination" missions with multiple targets are usually wing missions.
Those have engineered, fairly aggressive NPCs.
That would end up like the OPs story for many people.

The "pirate massacre" missions give a mission POI now, and have multiple ships.
They are easier than the assassination missions, and they aren't packing as many engineered weapons it seems, if any.
Maybe the wing leader does; an FDL or FAS, ime.
I've only done a couple of those since the update however.
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I hear you, and until the OP confirms, hopefully with a combat log, we won't know the truth.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Siobhan said:
But don't I keep hearing that we need to increase the logout timer as it's impossible to kill a commander in 30s let alone the 15s it takes to log out... Then an Expert NPC does it in half that?
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I think that tells you more about the OPs build than anything.

Yes I know, the commander should have been more prepared, should have done this, that and the other. Expert is just middling level, there are 4 higher.
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I suspect OP didn't scan everyone(whole encounter was too short, so Elite NPCs are not out of the question) and there were other factors at play besides the rank of the NPCs.


Was the OP unlucky? Probably. I know if it had been another player who'd killed him, there'd be the usual "git gud" jeers from the peanut gallery. Or are NPC's back to the post engineering Uber death killing machines that caused so much angst? I dunno.
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There's been some improvement, and some weakening, in the NPC behavior.
I've noticed the weird "suicide collision/park on your nose" thing.
That could explain the OP right there.

They also (somewhat annoyingly, even if more realistically) hi-wake out right before they pop, if/when their shields rebuild.

And for the record, I'm not being critical of the OP personally, despite how it sounds.
It's just the Mamba is an odd duck.
It's not as out of the box user-friendly as the FDL imo, so it needs more foresight.

Following eagerly as I'm interested in learning.

For the record, I've seen them tougher than I was used to before the upgrade, but so far, nothing off the scale. Maybe I've been lucky.
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I'm guessing OP faced a collision plus missiles or PAs, perhaps engineered NPCs too.
A tougher, quicker build would help with all of that.
And the turrets gotta go!
;)
 
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CMDR Beni Stingray

CMDR Beni Stingray
Mamba with a 5A shield generator and two boosters has just around 600MJ shield (just 360MJ thermal). Its not too far fetched too lose you ship in 10 seconds with these stats.
 

CoyoteXStarrk

CoyoteXStarrk
Bob Lighthouse said:
Pirate lord "assassination" missions with multiple targets are usually wing missions.
Those have engineered, fairly aggressive NPCs.
That would end up like the OPs story for many people.

The "pirate massacre" missions give a mission POI now, and have multiple ships.
They are easier than the assassination missions, and they aren't packing as many engineered weapons it seems, if any.
Maybe the wing leader does; an FDL or FAS, ime.
I've only done a couple of those since the update however.
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After looking back at what I did I think this is what happened. I think I accidentally took a wing mission and got waxed.
 

dm06

dm06
Ashnak said:
NPCs don't care about heat damage to their ships.
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Can't tell about current version but before 3.3 I've noticed that fried NPCs tried to escape and avoided to use things which increase heat (scb, thermal weapons and so on), expect those who had heat sinks.
 
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Krash

Krash
CoyoteXStarrk said:
After looking back at what I did I think this is what happened. I think I accidentally took a wing mission and got waxed.
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I tested my mamba the same way as the OP. However mine is fully engineered with 2600mj prismo shields and decent armor w/ MRP. I used huge MC + Frags in the large, pulse turrets in the smalls. My results vs a pirate wing mission? I didnt get waxed, but I had to flee. I tried several of these missions with the same result in the mamba. It just doesnt have the firepower/agility to take on 3 or 4 enemies like this and survive. I suppose I should try different weapon loadouts for reverski tactics in the mamba, but I lost interest. The corvette, OTOH, no problem. I can solo these missions all day long :D
 

CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
Despite what people are saying, your problem wasn't your shield, shield boosters, or shield engineering. From what you've written, you likely didn't have any pips in SYS, or maybe just one.

Everything else - engineering, thermal resistance, bigger shields, not using turrets - is optional. Pips in SYS at the right times is not.

Also, it does sound like you got rammed.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
dm06 said:
Can't tell about current version but before 3.3 I've noticed that fried NPCs tried to escape and avoided to use things which increase heat (scb, thermal weapons and so on), expect those who had heat sinks.
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True its just a "cheating npcs" imaginary gripe, if you spank one with high heat weapons without actually dropping the shield they stop firing and boosting which both raise heat. If you check internals before and after doing it they take loads of module damage. One of the conspiracy theories put about by people who either don't play at all or don't know what they are doing.
 
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