As I said.... Astronomers (or for example the 'InSight' crew at NASA) feel like explorers, even though they are using only instruments to explore, forever bound to this one planet.
Whatever your personal opinion, or whatever definition you personally wish to use for "exploring" is not very interesting.
I mean no offense, but "exploration" is not that narrow as you personally wish to define it.
I feel the old honk is still there, it just looks different...........quick glance at the FSS signal bar & you already know if there is anything worth hunting out..............ill admit i did struggle for a night or two with key binds............now i find it just as fast & in a way glad i just don't get it all in one hit (even tho you do still lol)
OK, finally got everything working (thanks to several commanders across several posts...).
A question for the Explorers amongst you....
IF the only change had been the DSS/Honk part and not the Probe Launching, what would your opinion have been?
I say this because I have just dropped into a system with an ELW and 2 Water Worlds.
I played the DSS/Honk game, reolved the Blue Blobs and zoomed in -- Hey presto ! I have effectively DSS's and first discovered them.
But, these planets were 42 000 LS away (is there a range limit ?)
Prior to the patch I would have honked, checked System screen, seen I had hit the jackpot and then have to fly to within DSS range (a few hundred LS) to scan the body and get "first discovered".
Now I can just sit near the main star and resolve the signal to do the same?
I can see this would be useful when you find an ELW 500K LS away, and you are happy to get "first discovered" without flying out there!
I can totally get with the probe mini-game, as someone who gave up trying to MK I eyeball geysers/life forms etc the Probe concept is a godsend!
But the DSS... I don't think its an improvement, its just different.
And if the "first mapped" didn't exist, how many would bother to fly out to outer bodies when all the info is picked up from circling the main star?
(Yes, I agree there are orbital anomalies and sights that justify flying out to look at. I am just puzzled as to why this is seen as an great leap forward?).
Now, I am not saying the new system is broken/rubbish/heresy !!! Just different.
I am just a little puzzled by the whole thing.
OK, I am on a roll now ! Just dropped into a Neutron system.
Secondary star is 279K LS away. Play the game and yes, there is an ELW out there !! (Yes, I am going to planet bomb it... aka Probe).
The Neutron had been previously scanned, the secondary and other bodies not...(As I said, 279K away... so maybe too far for the last commander?).
But now you don't even have to leave the local area of the Neutron star ? (unless you want to "probe" the planet).
And just dropped into another Neutron System... M Class star 380K Ls away. I didn't even have to do anything.... I got everything on both stars as soon as I dropped in and honked (no other bodies in system).
Previously that M class would probably have been left unless a completionist dropped in (nothing wrong with that !).
But now, I don't even have to move ?
Playing with the FSS today, dropped into Colonia for the first time and one thing I realized is... this is gonna be hell on my wrist. I adjusted the sensitivity upwards, but it's still gonna be a lot more movement than I'm used to.
The old way, I could do entirely by keyboard. Except the initial honk, I never did bind a 'fire' key on the keyboard.
I like how all the top valued planets appear on the diagram above the [AL ] section of the FILTERED SPECTRAL ANALYSIS text on the bar. That might become the new Explorers slogan along with OBAFGKM. Go [AL ] or it's not worth it? That sounds bad [woah]
I originally posted this in on the Beta forum, but I've been asked to repost it, so I hope you all will forgive me.
I'm going to start out by saying two things:
1) I really hope Frontier gets around to fixing the remaining VR issues in the FSS. Several VR bugs are still present in the release. It's frustrating having to choose between playing in VR, and being able to see orbit lines and the blue blobs and the additional information they can provide.
2) I still wish we could use it on the move. If I find something interesting, I'd like to be able to start moving towards it, and search a system while on the move. Not to mention I'd also like to be able to use the FSS to take closer look at a destination, so I can plan my braking maneuver.
And now, on with the show!
The Initial Insertion - When entering a new system, I prefer to park myself right beside the star, honking on the way. While that big sphere of fusing hydrogen can block out part of the sky, it makes catching potential eclipses much easier. I see that this star has an asteroid belt relatively close to my location, plus I automatically discover the closest planet to the star, since I'm so close to it.
The Honk's Results - The results of the honk tells me two things about the system. One is that it has 17 bodies, which makes it a small system, so this guide won't be too long. The other is I don't immediately see the orbital plane of the system, so I'm probably near one of the star's poles. I'll need to look up to find the orbital plane.
First Look at the System - Ah, the waveform guide. At a glance, it tells me three things. One is that there are at least two gas giants in the system. With so few bodies, I'll be surprised if there's two. The second is that there are there are rocky bodies and icy bodies in the system. Finally, one of those icy bodies has rings. May be worth a closer look if there's nothing else interesting in the system.
The Gas Giants - A quick adjustment of the tuner tells me that there's a typical gas giant without rings, and a helium heavy gas giant with rings in the system. More evidence that there's probably only two gas giants in the system.
The First Gas Giant - I set my tuner between the two gas giant signals so that I'll be able to see the arrows for both, and pan towards the star and upwards to acquire the orbital plane. At this stage, I'm not interested in taking a closer look at the gas giants, but finding out where they are. I can take a closer look later. I find the ringed gas giant right away, just above the star's horizon.
Searching for the Smaller Worlds- Having found the one right away, I set my tuner into the smaller worlds of the system. If I see a blob without arrows, I'll know its the second gas giant. I find an icy body right away. When I put the targeting reticle over it, I see there's more than one body there. Could it be a binary planet? Or is it just a planet/moon combination?
Nope. Just a moon.
Curse you Muscle Memory - When I next spot the icy world with rings, I forget I'm supposed to be taking screen shots, and let instinct take over.
Found the other Gas Giant - I complete my pan through the system by finding the second gas giant. There's a total of five bodies, so the rest are probably moons. Might as well start resolving resolving them. I also notice that the orbit lines of the system follow closely with the orbital plane. If there was a high degree of inclination, I'd know to look for a highly inclined body opposite the orbital lines.
Probably Only Two Moons - Which means that the rest of them are around the first gas giant I found. There's always a chance of a binary moon, though.
Definitely Two Moons - That means that the first gas giant should have eight moons.
The First Gas Giant - My hypothesis is that this giant has eight moons. I see only five other blobs. Since the system's orbit lines aren't highly inclined, it isn't likely there's a rogue planet in the system. Here's hoping there's some binary moons here. Time to find out what's here!
That's a lot of Rocky bodies - It looks like there may be eight here after all. Right away, I see there's two moons very close together. Could it be a binary moon?
Nope. But two of those moons have geological sites, so I'll be heading this way. I select the first one I find instinctively. I love how this planetary system is almost completely perpendicular to me.
Another pair of close moons - Given that this pair of moons is farther out, I have much higher hopes that they're a binary pair.
It is. I can tell because the orbital lines for this moon is around a mutual barycenter which is not the gas giant.
Looking at the Complete System Map - Having resolved the last of the moons, I look at the system map. While there, I realized I never actually looked at the planet the FSS detected automatically. Good thing I did, because it also had geological sites.
I spend the rest of this play session exploring the rest of the system, probing worlds and landing on them. This is why I enjoy the FSS so much. Not only am I discovering a system, as opposed to being handed a completed system map, but I discover other things along the way.
First, I have no idea what this "blob" you're talking about is. I see nothing but flat dark blue background as I move the reticule around. Second, if you enjoy playing this mini-game, that's great. I happen to enjoy having paid for an ADS and DSS to have all the bodies revealed to me.
Yes we are exploring, in game.
Astronomers feel like explorers, even though they do not travel to the stars, ever. They sit at desks, use telescopes, radio telescopes and other tools and instruments.
It is that same feeling that FDev has succeeded in bringing to the game.
I love it.
And the bonus is that in the game I get to travel to the stars too. If I want to go to a planet I have discovered from behind my desk, I can, and I even can land on the ones without atmospheres. What's not to like. We finally have some good, really good, space exploration gameplay.
It is infinitely better than the boring trucker's honk mechanic.
The mechanic itself doesn't even make sense either. We have ships with variable jump ranges that use said jump range to punch wormholes essentially for our ship to travel through, and can now reverse engineer Alien technology of both Thargoid and Guardian origin (both species which are still far superior to us, but we can still make rudimentary copies of their stuff now)... yet somehow our scanning equipment gets downgraded by over a thousand years because this is how it's done roughly in real life today... the new system is trash and I think Iskariot isn't capable of understanding that.
If anything the "truckers honk" as he puts it was way more advanced... If you can send out ships that punch holes in reality to travel in seconds to a completely different star system, then it only makes sense for scanners to be able to instantly give at least a vague impression of what's out there (ADS + Honk + sys map, old way ) to see if your time is worth poking more into investigating. Now our tech is just downgraded and yet people somehow think it's "enhanced exploration"... not buying it for a second.
Forget it, he isn't capable of understanding. The mechanic itself doesn't even make sense either. We have ships with variable jump ranges that use said jump range to punch wormholes essentially for our ship to travel through, and can now reverse engineer Alien technology of both Thargoid and Guardian origin (both species which are still far superior to us, but we can still make rudimentary copies of their stuff now)... yet somehow our scanning equipment gets downgraded by over a thousand years because this is how it's done roughly in real life today... the new system is trash and I think Iskariot isn't capable of understanding that.
If anything the "truckers honk" as he puts it was way more advanced... If you can send out ships that punch holes in reality to travel in seconds to a completely different star system, then it only makes sense for scanners to be able to instantly give at least a vague impression of what's out there (ADS + Honk + sys map, old way ) to see if your time is worth poking more into investigating. Now our tech is just downgraded and yet people somehow think it's "enhanced exploration"... not buying it for a second.
I am leaning more and more toward this point of view.
The new DSS system is even more of a cheat than the supposedly flawed old "God" mode DSS.
You play the blue blob game from the primary star, zoom in and hey presto! First Discovered for any body that you care to play the game with !
So, planets 200K, 300K, 400K Ls you can tag them all without moving from the initial drop in point...
And there is now no vague chance of missing one of those "disguised" ELW or Ammonia Worlds, you get them all ! (if you play the game).
No need to trundle out several hundred thousand LS on the off chance it may be an ELW after all...just play the game,resolve the blob,zoom in … abra cadabra ! First Discovered !!
And because you know what is way out there you can travel out for ELW's or Ammonia's and ignore the rest (for planet probing that is)
Sure, its the new way and I cannot see it changing, but I also cannot see how it is an improvement ?
I spend the rest of this play session exploring the rest of the system, probing worlds and landing on them. This is why I enjoy the FSS so much. Not only am I discovering a system, as opposed to being handed a completed system map, but I discover other things along the way.
The thing is... that was true of the old ADS too. Sure, you've made up a story about using the FSS... but as you noted, muscle memory takes over and you find yourself resolving things and moving on without thinking. Because there's really little point in anticipating and making theories about things with the FSS... it's simpler and faster to just resolve things and get all the answers.
Which the ADS actually did NOT give you. Sure you get a visual representation of the system... but it was just the relationships and appearances, along with very basic stats. You could then make up a story about mousing over the worlds looking at the numbers and discovering all sorts of things, just like you did with the FSS here... Look, these moons have orbits between rings! Look, this moon is close enough to probably have vulcanism! Look, this moon has the right conditions for brain trees! Look at how I'm I"m not just being given the whole system but discovering things about it! Look at how I still need to drive over and scan for confirmation... leading me to discover that not only were those moons between rings, but the B ring is very far out and huge! I've discovered things along the way! In fact, that's more "discovery" than with the FSS because the time cost to confirm means that make a hypothesis and testing it is an ACTUAL thing.
The FSS is the godlier scan... it goes from zero to everything at lightning speed. And this is why the argument that you can spend time thinking about things doesn't hold up... you could do that with the ADS too, and the ADS at least trickled information at a level where thinking about things was valuable. That's why I find the FSS a huge step backwards in gameplay. What it does offer is something for people to do with their hands to make them feel like they've earned something. It's like Betty Crocker cake mixes... at first they weren't that popular because people were feeling guilty about how easy it was. By making it so that the customer had to "add an egg" they removed that guilt and made them feel like they had achieved something... even though it was a pointless exercise. Which is what the FSS is... the repetitive and easiest part to automate has been left for the human. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. It is an insult and spits right in the face of the computer programmer virtues of Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris. Yet it apparently makes people feel like they've accomplished something anyways. Even though it has no reason to exist.
I am out exploring and have dropped into a system with 5 B class stars.
Press the magic Honk and abra cadabra ! I have all 5 mapped and "first discovered"
I did not even have to move the ship !!
(No other bodies in system, just the 5 stars).
Ranges were from 260Ls to 80 000 Ls... did not have to move a single cm !! (this is better how??)
And edit--- just dropped into a Wolf Rayet system with a Herbig at 411 892 Ls....press magic button and BAM !! got the lot !
For a moment I thought this thread would be a how-to-understand-the-FSS thread, which I think we really need - and I enjoyed reading OP’s post and a few others. But yet again we have the haters here who are essentially ruining the purpose of this thread. Don’t we have enough of this negativeness already? Put it elsewhere please - at least.
I hope the moderators will deem those posts “off topic” and delete them as they said they would - and this one too. Let’s have a clean thread please.
The original post during the Beta was written in response to how many people seemed to be brute forcing their way through a system, a.k.a resolving every body, and then looking at the completed system map to decide if a system was "worth exploring." It seemed obvious to me, even in during the debut livestream long before we actually got our hands on the Beta, that a lot of information was provided in the FSS itself, and it would be possible to deduce a lot about a system without resolving a single body... or at most a few bodies in more complex systems.
OP, thanks for this thread. I just ran across this little FSS challenge this morning and with your tips and pointers I had a blast. I got enough practice in this one system to really help pick up the pace. Good stuff, FD. Thanks for getting me excited to wonder what is over the next hill.
If you'd like something moved, it's best to use the Report Post button for that.
That said, you're right, and you were right. Besides, the thread title even says it's a pictoral guide. Might need some cleaning-up to remove all the off-topic opinions though.
The other is I don't immediately see the orbital plane of the system, so I'm probably near one of the star's poles. I'll need to look up to find the orbital plane.
