How Opals have nearly made space great again

[Rubbernuke]

Call me crazy, but if you don't want to be pirated you either:

Multicrew with a fighter for protection

Wing with a friend who flies a combat vessel

Fly a combat worthy ship sacrificing cargo capacity for boom juice

Fly a ship that can escape and learn how to do so (The Git Gud™ doctrine)

You can also give the pirate what he wants, and you may™ (depending on your social skills) get to live with most of your cargo intact. A good pirate does not want to kill because that makes life very expensive and complicated.

Remember that if you can't escape you will have cops helping you as well (sec level depending) if you can live long enough. So rather than fly a ship like this

up your game a bit and change this elitist 'thou shalt not touch thy thrusters you subhuman pewpewmaster for the body is sacred' attitude.

Flying in Open is just that- its open. Nothing is 'wrong' and pirating / killing is a valid play choice that FD themselves say is fine. You can stay in solo, thats not wrong either, but at the same time you won't get the devious behaviour from players that no AI can match. In addition to that AI pirate ships are spoon level most of the time. I really want to see AI pirates that have cytos or properly trap you- until then, the only dynamic and emergent situations happen between players- this is where quite a number of people have fun because rather than seeing

"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"
"all that tasty cargo"

in the chatbox, you actually get some fun interactions.

In my view? Void Opals and really, really shiny cargo should be open only to turn people to crime, they should be treated like the proposed Open Powerplay merit destruction on mode swap.

Also, there is nothing to stop you getting revenge on the pirate later on. If people hate pirates then strap into a combat ship and hunt them like dogs.

I'd pay FD millions to see people here get a posse together and take on human pirates. And, I think the pirates would enjoy being hunted by wings of human bounty hunters in an emergent fashion. It would be like this:

After all, what are squadrons for?

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Agreed rubbernuke, pirating or escaping pirates in open can be fun. Some don't find it fun and should be able to play in the modes they wish without constant harassement from the 'git gud' crew trying to force gameplay they don't want on them or penalise them for choosing the mode they prefer.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Rather assumes the White Knight's aren't in a wing or the trader isn't in a wing with 3 meta Cutters.

Powerpanic
The Voice of Griefing

Many permutations are, of course possible. However, I'd expect that there are more traders than protectors - and that protecting traders is rather repetitive and boring, as well as less lucrative than trading for oneself.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Very true. When I was pirated there’d be a carrier and at least one, sometimes three, hardened pvp builds. Escape wasn’t really an option.

Indeed.

Hmmm.
I agree with your statement that the ships should be better balanced, but if we start balancing a ship against a whole wing, that won't end well.
If there is a whole pirate wing pirating things, I guess they deserve every ton they get.

I wasn't suggesting balancing one against four, just that a ship not optimised for cargo capacity faces more probability of destruction than the pirate.

The trader could be escorted by 3 meta ships, too.

Let's be realistic here... any trader/miner can harden his ship to an extent that no pirate could ever pose a threat to them. Personally I'm following this directive with all of my ships. My mining Python has 1200 MJ of shields and a point defence. If someone manages to pirate that, he probably deserves it

It depends on how much the player is prepared to compromise the optimisation for the primary role to take into account the possibility of being attacked by another player.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sometimes you're supposed to die and be overwhelmed.

Indeed - and Frontier set the parameters that govern the challenge posed by the game - taking into account all players, not only the subset of the player-base that comprises the top few percentage points in terms of combat skill.

 

[Brrokk]

It's a problem when someone's desired gameplay requires the unwilling contribution of someone else. No-one has the right to say that players "should" play in Open or "should" act in certain ways in Open.

I've been having fun mining but I choose not to play among player pirates. There are too many who aren't proper pirates and just like shooting with no comms.

If by some system of incentives or restrictions I was forced to play in Open I'd have other fall-backs. I'd fight every interdiction, try to run or finally self-destruct so that no-one gets my cargo. I'd see this as akin to not negotiating with terrorists or not paying kidnap ransoms: if everyone has this policy, piracy becomes unattractive.

The reality is that in ED if you want to play as a pirate, you need willing players to play the other role. There's no other way. That's why I've said before that a PG is the obvious solution. It will never be possible to re-make Open into the pirates game you want.

 

[Julio Montega]

It's a problem when someone's desired gameplay requires the unwilling contribution of someone else. No-one has the right to say that players "should" play in Open or "should" act in certain ways in Open.

I've been having fun mining but I choose not to play among player pirates. There are too many who aren't proper pirates and just like shooting with no comms.

If by some system of incentives or restrictions I was forced to play in Open I'd have other fall-backs. I'd fight every interdiction, try to run or finally self-destruct so that no-one gets my cargo. I'd see this as akin to not negotiating with terrorists or not paying kidnap ransoms: if everyone has this policy, piracy becomes unattractive.

I still wonder why insurance covers self imposed destruction via the self destruct.
Also when you decide to self destruct, that doesn't necessarily prevent the attacker from
still getting paid for the work invested.
With how much the new rush pays some tons already pay enough
to cover expenses, and it isn't unlikely you will drop cargo before your self destruct works.

The reality is that in ED if you want to play as a pirate, you need willing players to play the other role. There's no other way. That's why I've said before that a PG is the obvious solution. It will never be possible to re-make Open into the pirates game you want.

With willing you mean people choosing to play in open?
That applies.

 

[sollisb]

Been following with interest..

I'm a carebear, PvE or nothing for me.

The problem I'm seeing here is one of perception or/and a little of entitlement.

When I login, I have no care whatsoever about what some other player is doing, how they are playing, I'm only interested in 'my game'. Why should I have to form or join some other wing to do what I want to do? because some other player wants to play 'pirate'? aka take my stuff and not earn it themselves?

Why should I have to build my ship to cater for some other player's play-style?
Why is this even an issue? Are there not enough NPCs in Open to pirate? Or is it you want player on player action and see some boom?

Sorry, my game, my choices not anyone elses. And, everyone else has the exact same game as me, so they can make your own choices. Just because other players won't or don't play along with someones elses idea of 'fun' does not in any way infer, Fdev should pander to them.

I think Robert inferred it best; If FDev feel PvP is such a big earner I'm sure they'd be first to get on the bandwagon.

In all my years playing online from Muds to Everquest, WoW, Eve, Aion, WarHammer and many others, I have yet to see a PvP centric body of players be greater than the PvE. Even EvE which was predominantly PvP, had to change and cater tot he PvE side. because simply put, that's where the money is.

 

[777Driver]

I still wonder why insurance covers self imposed destruction via the self destruct.

Good point, surprised this has never been brought up before.

 

[Julio Montega]

Good point, surprised this has never been brought up before.

I think this is a legacy issue.
Back in the day we had no fuel rats or scoops to refuel stranded ships,
and i see the self destruct rather as a "stuck" command in traditional MMOs,
to get you out of unrecoverable situations.

But now we have so many possibilities to not require "self destruct" anymore
to solve these problems, like relogging into the base non-horizons game for
planetary problems.

I think self destruct is abused a lot of the time, like in just travelling those
pesky 2k Ly to unlock palin and then get back home fast.

It is very idiotic to have insurance companies bolster your account
when you decide to light your ride on fire yourself.
Also being on the receiving end of someone just logging on you
or self destructing, based on the perspective, could be seen very well
as intended griefing.
I don't think that is in the spirit of Elite.

Given how society works, many people never think of the possibility
that an agressor can become the victim aswell.

 

[Vandaahl]

I think this is a legacy issue.
Back in the day we had no fuel rats or scoops to refuel stranded ships,
and i see the self destruct rather as a "stuck" command in traditional MMOs,
to get you out of unrecoverable situations.

But now we have so many possibilities to not require "self destruct" anymore
to solve these problems, like relogging into the base non-horizons game for
planetary problems.

I think self destruct is abused a lot of the time, like in just travelling those
pesky 2k Ly to unlock palin and then get back home fast.

It is very idiotic to have insurance companies bolster your account
when you decide to light your ride on fire yourself.

Heh, its amazing sometimes that even the worst threads can come up with good info

 

[777Driver]

I think this is a legacy issue.
Back in the day we had no fuel rats or scoops to refuel stranded ships,
and i see the self destruct rather as a "stuck" command in traditional MMOs,
to get you out of unrecoverable situations.

But now we have so many possibilities to not require "self destruct" anymore
to solve these problems, like relogging into the base non-horizons game for
planetary problems.

I think self destruct is abused a lot of the time, like in just travelling those
pesky 2k Ly to unlock palin and then get back home fast.

It is very idiotic to have insurance companies bolster your account
when you decide to light your ride on fire yourself.
Also being on the receiving end of someone just logging on you
or self destructing, based on the perspective, could be seen very well
as intended griefing.
I don't think that is in the spirit of Elite.

Agreed. From a piracy point of view, would some cargo still be left in the wreckage? I remember a Cmdr telling me it would, that was many years ago.

Cheers

 

[Robert Maynard]

It is very idiotic to have insurance companies bolster your account
when you decide to light your ride on fire yourself.

Same could be said for initiating combat and facing a rebuy....

 

[Julio Montega]

Agreed. From a piracy point of view, would some cargo still be left in the wreckage? I remember a Cmdr telling me it would, that was many years ago.

Cheers

No, a self destructing ships leaves nothing but debris.
But a hatchbreaker operates fast enough to eject cargo
prior to destruction.
So people who think that self destructing will just grief the pirate
are simply deluting themselves.

 

[Julio Montega]

Same could be said for initiating combat and facing a rebuy....

Absolutely,
hence the bounty added to ship replacement costs and
huge increases in said bounty when notorious.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Absolutely,
hence the bounty added to ship replacement costs and
huge increases in said bounty when notorious.

Those are criminal penalties and would not apply in the case of legal combat.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Otherwise, as examples: once you have a miner with 10billion in assets and every ship under the sun, he/she/zi is pretty much done. Billionaire criminals and even the WhiteKnights will turn to ganking. Toxicity returns.

not me..... you are right however in so far as if i ever become a billionaire in game owning every ship in th game i will get bored. i wont turn to ganking however, it is not my bag... i will leave the game however, which is precisely why i dont want money to become too easy to earn.

OTOH i do like the new mining and exploration however which essentially forces all the wealth in the world down our necks, and conversly makes proper piracy even more of a waste of time.

sucks to be me i guess because before long i will be the billionaire that, unlike real life, i do NOT want to be in ED.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Indeed - and Frontier set the parameters that govern the challenge posed by the game - taking into account all players, not only the subset of the player-base that comprises the top few percentage points in terms of combat skill.

For the first time ever. I am going to agree with you. Personal Progression is perfectly acceptable here and optional in any mode. As it should be.

You are 100% right about this one.

 

[Julio Montega]

Those are criminal penalties and would not apply in the case of legal combat.

Legal combat will have no police investigating an insurance claim
and you could add, that the factions supporting the clients
has connections to the insurance companies, which in return
receive taxes from the factions based on a contract.

Legal combat isn't something breaking the insurance here.
But self destructing on a whim is akin to leaving your car's
window open, making it easy for the criminal breaking in,
leading to wars of paperwork.

Insurance should include that.

 

[Julio Montega]

not me..... you are right however in so far as if i ever become a billionaire in game owning every ship in th game i will get bored. i wont turn to ganking however, it is not my bag... i will leave the game however, which is precisely why i dont want money to become too easy to earn.

OTOH i do like the new mining and exploration however which essentially forces all the wealth in the world down our necks, and conversly makes proper piracy even more of a waste of time.

sucks to be me i guess because before long i will be the billionaire that, unlike real life, i do NOT want to be in ED.

Yep sucks to be us, not even getting the same mission revision
trading does, not apllying the depot mechanic to smuggling and
piracy related missions.

Short sighted development.
Improving piracy means improving escort jobs
and bounty hunting, even offering the option
of becoming a contracted police force.

It is like improving exploration,
which leads to improved mining
and enjoyable game for a multitude of jobs
and facettes.