True. Besides being forced into a new round of engineering to level up with the NPCs there's another unfavourable effect of simply 'increasing the stats' on NPCs. The fights take longer and longer. For me 5 minutes for a typical fight is long enough (maybe 10 mins for an NPC that got a really lucky draw from the RNG gods). After more than 5 mins my adrenaline levels start to subside and I sort of sober up and find myself thinking: "What am I doing here chasing these perma-boost-flipping robot NPCs?" and I want to jump away to do something else. It's what made me tune out of Thargoid (Interceptor) combat too.
Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?
- Thread starter Bill Clement
- Start date
True. Besides being forced into a new round of engineering to level up with the NPCs there's another unfavourable effect of simply 'increasing the stats' on NPCs. The fights take longer and longer. For me 5 minutes for a typical fight is long enough (maybe 10 mins for an NPC that got a really lucky draw from the RNG gods). After more than 5 mins my adrenaline levels start to subside and I sort of sober up and find myself thinking: "What am I doing here chasing these perma-boost-flipping robot NPCs?" and I want to jump away to do something else. It's what made me tune out of Thargoid (Interceptor) combat too.
Post 2.1 gameplay inna nutshell.
I think I'm starting to lean towards a full nuclear solution - a catastrophic galaxy-wide event that effects most known technology. This could lead to a complete revision of technology which would include dialing back the function of the new FSS (see what I did there) and relying on using it in parallel with centuries old versions of the old DS (no ADS), neither of which would function at all without being fully G5 engineered, using a completely new engineering system which requires earning blueprints individually, then taking them to one of the few surviving engineers, or gambling with a remote engineering and hoping that local guy can make sense of your complicated blueprint, which would introduce an new RNG element to engineering where they may screw up, causing any number of flaws/weaknesses, but with no indication to you - something fun to discover while playing - oh crap, every time I try to boost with exactly 3 pips to engines my shield completely shutsdown! Why the hell does firing two APAs at the same time lower my bloody landing gear! Talk about individualised ships. Of course exactly how engineering effects modules will also be depend on which mode one logs into, with combat focused engineering only working properly (if at with potential remote RNG flaws) in Solo; all exploration, mining and trade focused engineering only working properly (if at with potential remote RNG flaws) in Open; and nothing working at all in PGs.
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I love being able to tweak a ship and think it is great that we can customise ships with modules and engineering to suit whatever role we want to partake in.
I also love flying different ships for different roles, but some things in this game discourage owning many ships - the engineering grind is one of these. (as well as ship transfer delays/costs)
This is the same reason I did not buy a second account, as I did not want to have to unlock engineers and other specialist modules again.
I also love flying different ships for different roles, but some things in this game discourage owning many ships - the engineering grind is one of these. (as well as ship transfer delays/costs)
This is the same reason I did not buy a second account, as I did not want to have to unlock engineers and other specialist modules again.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Pretty sure you are not being serious................. however that said IF FD announced they felt they had a total handle on the BGS now as well as the balance of all modules in the game, and the econonomy and that they felt it best for the game for a complete and total wipe and we all start from scratch - including us all being within a tiny bubble in the galaxy and we had to rediscover the jump co-ordinates before hyperspacing to new systems. i would rejoice.
it will never happen tho. The only chance of that would be if FD did an ED2 ............. but i do not see that happening, i distinctly remember one of the sales pitches for buying the LTP in elite was that ED was the last Elite game FD would make, and that this very long term project would just be added to instead.
Yes I enjoy engineering my ships. I enjoy using my engineered ships. I also enjoy the play involved in unlocking the engineers (mostly!) and gathering the required mats. There were times when I was impatient and had to adjust my mindset and how I played Elite.
I never heard the term "grind" as used in gaming until I came to these forums. I can understand frustration at times because the work seems to take a long time, and I have complained before doing some of the engineering requirements, but when I actually did them it was not as bad as I had imagined and ultimately was worth doing it (many times over if you engineer many ships). Nothing has discouraged me from owning many ships. I have over 20 now with half of them heavily engineered.
I never heard the term "grind" as used in gaming until I came to these forums. I can understand frustration at times because the work seems to take a long time, and I have complained before doing some of the engineering requirements, but when I actually did them it was not as bad as I had imagined and ultimately was worth doing it (many times over if you engineer many ships). Nothing has discouraged me from owning many ships. I have over 20 now with half of them heavily engineered.
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Tbh the original system didn't bother me in the slightest. It really was optional. The only people using it were min-max PvP types. Those inclined to grief and gank would be rocking up gang handed in combat builds anyway, so their havingmoar dakka!massive overkill didn't really change the dynamic. I had no chance against a four warship wing, it's not like their engineering could reduce my survival chance below zero!If the PvP guys (or anyone else, for that matter) felt like customising their ship, good on 'em, glad they got to do what they enjoyed doing.
The issue for me now is that NPCs got a really lazy balance pass. Instead of upping the AIs smarts (y'know, adding a wee bit of challenge to the fight?) they just got a mahusive boost to their shields, hull and weapons. Since they get to snipe modules as well, just escaping in a Type became a major drama. No more space trucking for this callsign. They also got a ton of boost to their engines. So my Clipper, Vipers and Cobras are also gathering dust. Even my A rated cruisers- my FAS, my Python- became second class to ships half their size.
When the only viable option in every ship I own is 'don't lose the interdiction', it really started to have an impact on my game.
..
It sucks that they're so tanked up I need engineering, it sucks almost as much that the ship is now ridiculously op. [sour]
I agree with you. I actually think AI has gotten worse with this update (as I posted elsewhere, I feel like I'm fighting Jar Jar Binks flying a god ship). Combat just isn't that fun anymore, unless I go somewhere like compromised NAV beacon where the NPCs are lower on the scale. Fighting a Competent NPC feels more realistic than fighting Deadly ones lately. If I want a challenge, I'll fight Competent NPCs in my Sidewinder..
So right now, exploration is my primary gameplay in ED. No amount of engineering is going to make combat fun with the current AI and power creep.
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![[VR] M4st0d0n](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/182/182772.jpg?1569064854){kind=avatar}
NPCs got so smart with the patch they just entirely left combat zones...
It's not broken, it's a feature.
It's not broken, it's a feature.
The Replicated Man
T
Its a love/hate sorta thing.
I've ground out the engineers 3 times from scratch. Working on 4 and 5 now, and not looking forward to it.
Some call me a madman. Maybe I am. I am a replicant after all
I've ground out the engineers 3 times from scratch. Working on 4 and 5 now, and not looking forward to it.
Some call me a madman. Maybe I am. I am a replicant after all
Or reduce the amount of engineering on the smarter NPCs.
Nah. Having top tier NPCs also field top tier engineering is the way to go. And honestly, we're not there yet. NPCs got a good deal stronger, but i feel that they're still nowhere near they could be in the numbers game. I still have to meet the fully engineered NPC, shields engineered to thermal resists, shield boosters set to the proper combination of resist augmented and heavy duty, of course also along with reactive armour and hull reinforcement packages, engineered accordingly. And don't forget the specialized SCBs, to keep the shields going for longer while reducing the exposure time to feedback cascade.
We're not there yet. It's all still to come. Then, and only then, will some players be ready to see and understand, that the current boosts from engineering are far over the top and we could get them cut down to size.
Relog fixes that.
You're not supposed to enjoy it, you just bear with it for the outcomes. I did enjoy trying new activities as a new player but that wears off quick. However, given ED's general lack of content, sometimes having something to do just for the sake of it can give people the illusion of fun.
Crashes to desktop as well.
Ok, now we're just back to 'git gud, n00b!'. [rolleyes] It's taken me two months with my entire year's worth of mats gathered to get close to fully engineering one ship. I'd be 'very dead' if I tried to engineer twenty ships! Assume I massively up my game, take on all the oh so fun activities and double my success rate? That's damn near two years to engineer twenty ships, almost a year to get to your lofty peaks.
Sod that!
Sorry fella, no chance, no way, not ever going to happen. I wouldn't 'adjust my mindset', I'd just off and play something else instead! [haha]
Must not have spent too much time around MMO/RPG/ARPG gaming sites I guess.
On topic:
Engineering:
Itself is meh: Travel to a place. Hit buttons that you can only hit at that place. Have no other real reason to be at that place. It feels out of the way for the sake of being out of the way. Pinning BPs helps when you're not doing special effects, so that's at least nice.
Mat soucing:
Only became palatable for me after material traders were introduced. Prior to that I'd sworn off engineering after a tedious initial trial run after they first released. Now it's merely a matter of feeling like the pace of gameplay is slowed down for scooping wreckage.
Unlocks:
My biggest gripe, they were either trivial to the point of being already unlocked or something I had to go well out of my normal way to do. And for the latter it often meant doing something I'd tried before and confirmed I wasn't interested in. I did in one case find a turret boat under fire in a res made (pre 3.3) mining more interesting, but that was the combat I already liked shining through.
All in all the process has definitely given me things to do that take up time in the least, but it's far from the peaks of the experience for me.
I'm surprised how much people like watching paint dry.
Engineering in the current shape ***** up the game balance and breaks an originally low game tempo. I've discussed the balance there already, but another thing I don't like is that it's forcing you to perform activities you don't really want to do to be competitive.
If I'm a combat player for example, why should I mine to be competitive in fight? That's just not fair. I understand, that the idea might be to introduce different ways to play the game for a player, but do we really need this in that manner?
And the worst thing - people like it. If someone says, that he doesn't like material scraping or grinding for engineers unlock, he hears 'git gud' or 'well, there are another games to play'.
Engineering in the current shape ***** up the game balance and breaks an originally low game tempo. I've discussed the balance there already, but another thing I don't like is that it's forcing you to perform activities you don't really want to do to be competitive.
If I'm a combat player for example, why should I mine to be competitive in fight? That's just not fair. I understand, that the idea might be to introduce different ways to play the game for a player, but do we really need this in that manner?
And the worst thing - people like it. If someone says, that he doesn't like material scraping or grinding for engineers unlock, he hears 'git gud' or 'well, there are another games to play'.
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Well, I used to stock up on mats and engineer from level 1 to the max I could, but I've soon realized that, like everything else in Elite, engineering is a process that should be done in stages, like upgrading your ship from E modules to A modules. If you value your sanity that is.
If you're focusing on PvE (you mentioned your mission runner), even grade 2 engineering will make a difference and are cheap. Now that we can pin blueprints, it's even better. Say you have beam lasers but not the mats for G3+ rolls. Go to the engineer, upgrade to level 1 or 2, apply a special effect (if you can/want to) pin the blueprint and leave. That way you can continue the process later from anywhere on and won't loose your special effect. That's how I approach it now. It's much less frustrating than going mat gathering/farming etc. and I can do something else.
If you're focusing on PvE (you mentioned your mission runner), even grade 2 engineering will make a difference and are cheap. Now that we can pin blueprints, it's even better. Say you have beam lasers but not the mats for G3+ rolls. Go to the engineer, upgrade to level 1 or 2, apply a special effect (if you can/want to) pin the blueprint and leave. That way you can continue the process later from anywhere on and won't loose your special effect. That's how I approach it now. It's much less frustrating than going mat gathering/farming etc. and I can do something else.
Well, it's woking in the solo only. I'm playing in Open, and I should be prepared for some random PvP. G2 rolls are not competitive vs heavily armored and overcharged combat ship, even flying the one with shield boosters stacked. If the game was solo-only, I'd never complain about this things, considering them as a progression component.
But we have an MMO game with the competitive element. And the competition is won by the one who spent more time grading his ship. That's not fair to the players, so FDev deserve all the criticism they may hear about it, even if the critics is not contructive.
That's their work to react on the feedback, or they will loose customers. Oh, wait, they won't, because many people love grinding, and are ready to attack anyone who don't. That's the reason why FDev completely ignore all suggestions, bug tickets or another kind of feedback - people still consume the product they get.
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