Now that board flipping is gone, we need to separate wing and solo missions, imo...

[Aashenfox]

I'm at the office now so I can't post a couple of screenshots I took showing boards with only wing missions, but basically, we're trying to push the influence of a faction currently, so we have a bunch of dudes and dudettes doing missions for them. I accept that every faction can't have 50 solo missions available, and 50 wing missions, too, but is it unreasonable to ask that there be an equal distribution of solo and wing missions? For example, add a tab to the mission boards, wing missions, and solo missions. The faction will then have whatever nominal number of each type of mission, 9 solo missions? Then there are also 9 wing missions, etc etc.

I logged on yesterday, tried the faction at one station, 7 wing missions, 1 solo I didn't want to do. OK, move to the next station (lucky there are multiple stations, eh!), and they have 6 wing missions and 3 solo missions. 1 of them is suitable for what I want to do. Off to the next station. ALL WING MISSIONS. On several occasions there were a few solo missions to choose from (so I accept that its random and a certain element of luck is needed) but they tend to be a lot of the same types which compounds the issue.

Mercy. Please make sure that there are at least as many of one type as the other. I can live with low numbers, but when 4 stations have THREE solo missions total I want, that just makes me believe that you took away something that was needed because you saw it as an exploit, without changing the thing that caused people to want to use an exploit. I'd always prefer not to exploit if I have a choice.

At the end of the day, I'm still using the relog to accomplish various things in the Elite universe, so it's not like stopping mission flipping actually changed something, except making missions, a fundamental of the game, more frustrating to find. I now do about 30% less relogging than I did before. Is that mission accomplished?

 

[Pville_Piper]

I ran into the opposite... I was looking for wing missions that my newbie friends could do. I found only solo missions and a couple of wing missions for moving 5000 units or killing 100 elite ranked pirates. And this was with my commander who is ranked competent in combat, tycoon in trade and his biggest ship is a Krait II.

 

[Space Dandy]

OP idea seems sound and would solve some problems be it looking for solo OR wing missions.

 

[Sylow]

Note that up to some degree the problem is homemade. The servers now create a number of missions of single and wing variety in set intervals. These missions are available to all players. Members of a group who try to work the BGS have an understandable tendency to pick the easier solo missions first. They have a much better ratio of gain to effort.

This means that several people working to push one faction at the same time use up the single missions, while leaving the wing missions in place. Seeing only wing missions in such a situation was predictable.

That all being said, i also understand that this is a problem. Not so much from the BGS point of view: you take what you can get. You might run out, but you know that you contributed and got things ahead.

Where i really see the problem is in and around the starting system. If several groups work hard to compete on the BGS, the mission boards will be drained, only missions with inadequate rewards and/or bad effort to gain ration will still be available. Which will negatively affect a beginners game experience.

Unfortunately i really don't see any better solution than creating individual solo missions. But this in the end means going back to what we previously had.

 

[Pville_Piper]

OP idea seems sound and would solve some problems be it looking for solo OR wing missions.

Never said he was wrong. I have often suggested the same and more. Like splitting the combat and transport missions into their own section. Except for helping the newbie guys I've not done a lot of missions since 3.3 dropped.

I've pretty much gone back to my play style I had when Horizons dropped which is bum around the galaxy and make a few credits doing whatever and not really doing missions.

From what I've seen of the mission boards, they suck. I've never really done that much board flipping, but the mission boards lately just don't have much to offer. Maybe when the BGS finally gets all sorted out.

 

[Aashenfox]

Never said he was wrong. I have often suggested the same and more. Like splitting the combat and transport missions into their own section. Except for helping the newbie guys I've not done a lot of missions since 3.3 dropped.

I've pretty much gone back to my play style I had when Horizons dropped which is bum around the galaxy and make a few credits doing whatever and not really doing missions.

From what I've seen of the mission boards, they suck. I've never really done that much board flipping, but the mission boards lately just don't have much to offer. Maybe when the BGS finally gets all sorted out.

I too have a small hope that with the bgs 'fixes' they will have listened to some other issues at the same time, particularly because, as you so aptly put it 'they suck' (those mission boards, generally).

 

[Aashenfox]

Note that up to some degree the problem is homemade. The servers now create a number of missions of single and wing variety in set intervals. These missions are available to all players. Members of a group who try to work the BGS have an understandable tendency to pick the easier solo missions first. They have a much better ratio of gain to effort.

This means that several people working to push one faction at the same time use up the single missions, while leaving the wing missions in place. Seeing only wing missions in such a situation was predictable.

That all being said, i also understand that this is a problem. Not so much from the BGS point of view: you take what you can get. You might run out, but you know that you contributed and got things ahead.

Where i really see the problem is in and around the starting system. If several groups work hard to compete on the BGS, the mission boards will be drained, only missions with inadequate rewards and/or bad effort to gain ration will still be available. Which will negatively affect a beginners game experience.

Unfortunately i really don't see any better solution than creating individual solo missions. But this in the end means going back to what we previously had.

I always believed that every pilot has his own board. Are you saying you believe that if I visit a board in the same instance as a squadron mate, they will see the same board? This has some issues if true. e.g. What happens if I'm in the same instance in the same station with my wingmate and we both pick up the same mission?

 

[lecorsobreton]

The station I'm at atm has a more or less even spread between solo or wing missions. I can't seem to find skimmer missions, but I have a variety of transport, combat, liberate type missions etc. It seems it ranges from good to bad.

 

[Aashenfox]

The station I'm at atm has a more or less even spread between solo or wing missions. I can't seem to find skimmer missions, but I have a variety of transport, combat, liberate type missions etc. It seems it ranges from good to bad.

Agree its random and sometimes I'm faced with a golden board with 6 assassinations and a couple of appropriately priced massacres. But this randomness is also a reason to separate the two, imo.

 

[Sylow]

I always believed that every pilot has his own board. Are you saying you believe that if I visit a board in the same instance as a squadron mate, they will see the same board? This has some issues if true. e.g. What happens if I'm in the same instance in the same station with my wingmate and we both pick up the same mission?

I'm not sure for the current status. I haven't looked into it for a while. So my status is based on the time when some of my RL friends still were playing the game, but our observations where like this:
- When all of us entered the mission board at about the same time, we saw the same missions.
- When one of us entered the board earlier and picked up one mission, the rest did not see this mission any more if they opened the board later.
- When we all had the board open, we all could pick up the same mission, it was not removed when one of us picked it up.

I can't tell if this is still the same now, with the dedicated mission server. I just know that it was like that about a year ago. It might be worth taking a look at it now.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm not sure for the current status. I haven't looked into it for a while. So my status is based on the time when some of my RL friends still were playing the game, but our observations where like this:
- When all of us entered the mission board at about the same time, we saw the same missions.
- When one of us entered the board earlier and picked up one mission, the rest did not see this mission any more if they opened the board later.
- When we all had the board open, we all could pick up the same mission, it was not removed when one of us picked it up.

I can't tell if this is still the same now, with the dedicated mission server. I just know that it was like that about a year ago. It might be worth taking a look at it now.

yeh, we could do some testing.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I always believed that every pilot has his own board. Are you saying you believe that if I visit a board in the same instance as a squadron mate, they will see the same board? This has some issues if true. e.g. What happens if I'm in the same instance in the same station with my wingmate and we both pick up the same mission?

This has always been the case. Its how I did wing assassinations before wing missions exist. If I kill my target and you are in the instance and need to kill a similarly named target it will count, even if it is not your mission uss.

Or at least, thats hiw it usedto be.

 

[MottiKhan]

I agree with the OP. It would give solo missions when we want them and wing missions when we want them. Win-win.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Well, when the intention to kill board-hopping was announced, players asked FDev if they would increase mission generation to compensate for losing access to the increased availability of mission diversity that board hopping brought. FDev said they weren't going to do that (still boggles my mind).

So, at this point, even if FDev split the board into Solo and Wing sections I fear they would simply do just that -- split mission types off into seperate boards and leave generation levels as they currently are. Which really doesn't solve anything.

Or maybe that's just me being cynical.

 

[Sylow]

yeh, we could do some testing.

Sounds like a plan. During the week i rarely see any of you on. I usually only hit the game when my wife is busy with other things or for a little when she went to bed. So i guess we have to aim for the weekend. But i can already fly over to your position tomorrow or on thursday, so i'm at the right place on the weekend.

 

[Jukelo]

Well, when the intention to kill board-hopping was announced, players asked FDev if they would increase mission generation to compensate for losing access to the increased availability of mission diversity that board hopping brought. FDev said they weren't going to do that (still boggles my mind).

The increased availability of missions via board flipping wasn't intended, so the thing to boggle my mind would be if they deliberately now spawned more missions to go back to the levels achieved with board-flipping. You aren't supposed to just do wahtever you want whenever you want wherever you want, just like you can't buy any ship with any module you want just about anywhere you want. It's all about being dealt a hand and playing with that.


As for the OP, I would much prefer that they rework the whole idea of wing missions. I don't like that there are some missions specifically designed for wings, and some missions specifically designed for solo players, and that the method of rewarding the two are different (and nonsensical with the whole multiplication of loaves and fishes for wings).
What we need is for every mission to support wings, with some clearly too difficult for solo, and some clearly a waste of time for wings.

 

[Aashenfox]

The increased availability of missions via board flipping wasn't intended, so the thing to boggle my mind would be if they deliberately now spawned more missions to go back to the levels achieved with board-flipping. You aren't supposed to just do wahtever you want whenever you want wherever you want, just like you can't buy any ship with any module you want just about anywhere you want. It's all about being dealt a hand and playing with that.


As for the OP, I would much prefer that they rework the whole idea of wing missions. I don't like that there are some missions specifically designed for wings, and some missions specifically designed for solo players, and that the method of rewarding the two are different (and nonsensical with the whole multiplication of loaves and fishes for wings).
What we need is for every mission to support wings, with some clearly too difficult for solo, and some clearly a waste of time for wings.

I could get on board with that too.

 

[Jukelo]

I could get on board with that too.

Although now that I read my post again, it wouldn't address your issue since some missions would still be pretty much out of reach for either group of players...
But I could see system security play a role here in affecting the difficulty of missions, so that wings interested in wing content (or solo players interested in more challenging content) would know where to go in general.

 

[Drelthar]

...I would much prefer that they rework the whole idea of wing missions. I don't like that there are some missions specifically designed for wings, and some missions specifically designed for solo players, and that the method of rewarding the two are different (and nonsensical with the whole multiplication of loaves and fishes for wings).
What we need is for every mission to support wings, with some clearly too difficult for solo, and some clearly a waste of time for wings.

This.

 

[SpaceScania]

Missions are the part of the game that I want to do the most, but get the most frustrated with when I try to do them. Especially haulage missions, as I even got into Elite Dangerous looking for a Euro Truck Simulator in space. Elite is a wonderful game and there is so much more to it than the missions but it is still a core part of the appeal for me. Pick up items X and truck them to station Y. The way missions are implemented in Elite do have some serious problems however, and finding the mission you want is definitely one of them. The game is so close to being the best space truck simulation ever, it just needs some tweaks to missions!!!

I agree that wing missions should just be nuked and there should be one kind of mission, where some obviously scale up to wing levels. Also, If you do the work to build rep with a system (especially in a major high population system) it should not be very challenging to find a good mission.

It also really bothers me that the missions system is very hostile to large ships, and strongly encourages you to fly a Python or Krait as the optimal ship. Before and up to getting the Python/Krait the missions are a lot more fun. But in a Type-9 or a Cutter you have to try to take multiple missions which increases pirate spawn rates and you can never find enough missions to go to the same destination so you end up playing a lottery game instead of just trucking.

Missions to/from outposts are easier to find and are much better which to me is backwards. If I show up with my Imperial Cutter which I worked so hard to get at a system with 15 billion people, I should not have a hard time finding a decently paying haulage mission to fill my 700+t cargo hold. This is especially so if I have seeded the area with tens of millions of credits of exploration data to get my rep up with the factions.

There are some nice things they added in Beyond, the ability to choose different rewards was a big win, as is the new way to do cargo missions where you can split it up into multiple runs. But the gap between 180t Python missions and 6000t wing missions is really frustrating and inexplicable. The fact that piddly outposts offer better missions than the capitals of empires and huge populated star systems is wrong. If I do the work to seed rep and watch for economy states I should not need to win the lottery to find good missions.

I pleaded with Frontier to do a focused feedback session on the missions system and I still hope that they will make some bigger improvements next year. I really hope that they take the missions over the finish line this year so threads like this will no longer be required.