DW2 - A missed opportunity

[jj.justme]

We have a organized escort service for the fleet

I know, I myself carry a ship equipped to combat NPC´s but at least my ship is not built to withstand a sustained attack of a pure PVP ship.

And that's the difference: if I am aware that these things were going to happen before departure, I prepare my ship for it. What you cannot expect is that you find people who break the rules that you have previously accepted to enter a PVE server, in order to satisfy your basic instincts. And for the record that I have not been attacked but I know of companions that if they have been. Also gross and childish as his ship was ashore at a rendezvous.

Although really and on second thought, it is my fault: After almost 5 years playing this game and almost 50 years of life, should have waited for this behavior and not another. But in my defense I want to keep thinking that I'm still a dreamer and as such, I think people will finally be good

 

[Rock-Hermit]

A dedicated group of armed and armored defenders patrolling waypoints in Open could do wonders to deter seal clubbing. It might not be perfect, but it would be much much MUCH better than nothing at all, which is what you guys settled for.

So please explain in detail how you decide who gets to defend the seals? How do you vette thousands of players for that role? There are no good guy groups with the manpower to defend a 13K player event. Think about it. Everyone with a bit of foresight knows exactly what will happen, some people would take the role of defense team only to use it to gain access to the seals and club them themselves. Defending an event like this size in open only works on paper, it will not work in a game mode where there are NO RULES by design and no way to expel people if there were rules that could be broken in the first place. Did this really need to be pointed out? Are people so naive not to see how this story would end?

 

[RolloTreadway]

Not even on a PG has been safe because there have been infiltrated attackers on these servers.

So, I've got to worry about a tiny chance that someone has inflitrated the PG and not been found out yet and happens to be in the same instance as me, at the same place, and at the same time, when after years of exploring and playing in PGs no such thing has yet happened. Fine. I'll think carefully on that tiny chance, and then dismiss it as insignificant after about five seconds.

Because I'm still immeasurably more likely to die by crashing into something.
And if I do die, so what? I'll just catch up with the expedition. What are these apparent monsters going to do, reach in and delete my screenshots of the nice places I've been?

I don't understand the fuss, I really don't.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

Not even on a PG has been safe because there have been infiltrated attackers on these servers.

Using alt accounts to bypass PG exclusion is a Terms of Service violation.

 

[NeilF]

To some degree this may have been done, or tried at least, but in open you DW2 leaders should have "hired" some squads to run protection. This would simulate real life. Think destroyers escorting merchant ships in WW2 etc.
PvP "griefers" as you call us would actually enjoy the better challenge facing an escort during attacks.
I had a submarine game years ago Silent hunter or something like that. If all I did was torpedo merchants it would have been boring as hell. The destroyers made the game interesting.

If you guys do a DW3 get some escorts. You'll be safer, not safe, but safer. And we'll enjoy the added aspect of combat ships amongst the sheep.

In summary, rather than whine about the issue, find a solution that fits and even adds new game aspects to your play.

The problem is:-

• Why create even more work to deal with individuals simply hell bent on schadenfreude? The organisers involved already have no doubt buckets of work/effort to do, and you suggest they undertake folks expect to deal with sort of needless cynical behaviour too?
• Then consider the fact the game really doesn't support the kind of policing you suggest. The gankers in question have enough shields to generally just jump away from any attack, to then continue picking on weak dedicated exploration ships for their schadenfreude fix.
• Then consider the gankers flying around in Wings in different instances to your "protection".
• And the protection forces you suggest then have the exciting gameplay ahead of them of.... sitting in the game... waiting...

In truth the only "missed opportunity" is for a huge fun community event, organised no doubt at some considerable expense in time and effort by those involved, to simply go by without a small committed toxic number of players needlessly causing grief and aggravation, simply to garner the enjoyment they get from grief.

So, in summary, not only are your ideas rather flawed, so is your delivery too, with unfounded rhetoric/needless back handed insults.

ps: Maybe you could/should suggest FD spend some time adding some logical C&P mechanics to apply some sensible measured punishment for what could be considered psychotic behaviour within the game, simply and sadly (in truth) all too often for schadenfreude.

 

[John Xenir]

I'm sorry to say this, but if you're looking for great PvP / organized defense and escort experience, try Freelancer: Discovery mod on its dedicated RP server.
Apart from few engagement rules that need to be rooted in role-play, and a little of old engine that needs glancing over its age, its mechanics are far superior for this very purpose.

You can easily select target ship, press one button and your ship is tied to speed and vector of your target, moving together in formation.
From there, you can easily role-play escorting while others role-play bad guys trying to shoot good guys for whatever reason.
Some learning curve is present so actual skill is also required to come out victor from such engagement.

I still silently hope someone does modern Freelancer version that works just as good as the old one, with modernized graphics and interface - this could be good. And somehow I doubt Star Citizen will be it.

 

[jj.justme]

So, I've got to worry about a tiny chance that someone has inflitrated the PG and not been found out yet and happens to be in the same instance as me, at the same place, and at the same time, when after years of exploring and playing in PGs no such thing has yet happened. Fine. I'll think carefully on that tiny chance, and then dismiss it as insignificant after about five seconds.

Because I'm still immeasurably more likely to die by crashing into something.
And if I do die, so what? I'll just catch up with the expedition. What are these apparent monsters going to do, reach in and delete my screenshots of the nice places I've been?

I don't understand the fuss, I really don't.

That is a small possibility does not mean that there is no possibility of it happening. As in the end it really happened if not, to tell the players who were destroyed in the Pallaeni system.

Also, here is not talking about PvE vs PvP. Here we are discussing the bad faith of players who have taken advantage of the event to kill others who knew they were going without defenses. It is clear to Me that if I enter to play on an OPEN server, I have the possibility of being attacked by a human. What I don't expect is that I'm attacked on a PVE server.

Anyway, we're talking about pixels and a game. What really annoys me is that, as I said before, the amusement of some players is based on the destruction of others in an event that, like this, is purely PVE.

Otherwise it's all said on my part. Unless I am quoted I will no longer discuss something that is meridianly clear.

Using alt accounts to bypass PG exclusion is a Terms of Service violation.

I know, I know

 

[Whitmann]

Just to clarify: as a DW2 Organiser I've only been made aware of two player kills within the Fleetcomm Private Group. There have been a few erroneously reported deaths, too, at the hands of NPCs which were initially reported as being by human pilots.

So yeah, the possibility is there. But the numbers are vanishingly-small, and I thought those numbers should be on the record to illustrate the safety of Fleetcomm.

 

[Orvidius]

Just to clarify: as a DW2 Organiser I've only been made aware of two player kills within the Fleetcomm Private Group.

..

So yeah, the possibility is there. But the numbers are vanishingly-small, and I thought those numbers should be on the record to illustrate the safety of Fleetcomm.

Just an FYI, I've been witness to two such events in FleetComm since DW2 started. Once at Pallaeni, and again at the The Arkgamanon Mountain Range. So it has been happening. Maybe not a lot, but somehow I've been instanced into it twice.

 

[Whitmann]

Thank you. It's still a very small number considering the size of the fleet, and of course it's a one-time offer - you kill someone in the PG, you're gone from the PG.

 

[Chaparral]

deleted

 

[jasonbarron]

Just to clarify: as a DW2 Organiser I've only been made aware of two player kills within the Fleetcomm Private Group. There have been a few erroneously reported deaths, too, at the hands of NPCs which were initially reported as being by human pilots.

So yeah, the possibility is there. But the numbers are vanishingly-small, and I thought those numbers should be on the record to illustrate the safety of Fleetcomm.

Granted that I agree it's not supposed to happen in Fleetcomm, I'd still be very nervous to be in a state of continual "pants down around my ankles," especially once I got way out past wherever the last re-spawn is going to be. Better to be prepared, regardless of what mode you're in.

 

[Whitmann]

Granted that I agree it's not supposed to happen in Fleetcomm, I'd still be very nervous to be in a state of continual "pants down around my ankles," especially once I got way out past wherever the last re-spawn is going to be. Better to be prepared, regardless of what mode you're in.

Everyone's having far too much of a good time to be nervous.

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

Lol no. They run from anyone that poses an actual threat to them^^

That's silly to state. You obviously don't PvP and have no idea what you're talking about. Many of the DG2 Cmdrs are well known in the PvP community and most do not run from threats unless vastly outnumbered. My squadron and many others actively interdict other PvP CMDrs. Unless its 1v4 most stay and fight 2v4, 2v3, 1v2 even. So no, they won't run from anyone that poses a threat. At most they'd drop as a wing to match the escort strength.

 

[Strangepork]

To some degree this may have been done, or tried at least, but in open you DW2 leaders should have "hired" some squads to run protection. This would simulate real life. Think destroyers escorting merchant ships in WW2 etc.
PvP "griefers" as you call us would actually enjoy the better challenge facing an escort during attacks.
I had a submarine game years ago Silent hunter or something like that. If all I did was torpedo merchants it would have been boring as hell. The destroyers made the game interesting.

If you guys do a DW3 get some escorts. You'll be safer, not safe, but safer. And we'll enjoy the added aspect of combat ships amongst the sheep.

In summary, rather than whine about the issue, find a solution that fits and even adds new game aspects to your play.

I think following DW2 is really going to change some of those ganker types this time, out in the black amongst the beauty of the emmense void, we are about to see some changed souls and enlightened hearts.

Welcome home bothers, welcome back to PVE!

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

So please explain in detail how you decide who gets to defend the seals? How do you vette thousands of players for that role? There are no good guy groups with the manpower to defend a 13K player event. Think about it. Everyone with a bit of foresight knows exactly what will happen, some people would take the role of defense team only to use it to gain access to the seals and club them themselves. Defending an event like this size in open only works on paper, it will not work in a game mode where there are NO RULES by design and no way to expel people if there were rules that could be broken in the first place. Did this really need to be pointed out? Are people so naive not to see how this story would end?

There's at least as many "good guy groups" in ED as there are "bad guy groups". We named a few earlier in the thread. So really vetting wouldn't be an issue. The white knight groups are well known in ED. Adel's Armada for example patrols Eravate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a report of their members ganking an unarmed trader/explorer. They will gank us pirates or the 13th though. We are ok with that.
You do have apoint about defending a group your size. But really if a few white knight squadrons patrolled your stopping spots (whatever you call them) they would simply hunt the gankers, keeping them occupied somewhat. Adel's basically does exactly this in Eravate. They don't wing with sidewinders all day. They patrol the system.

I still think its a good suggestion although instancing may make it less viable an idea. Fun for all involved too. Explorers will be attacked with or without it but with it there's a better chance they won't. Gankers would enjoy the challenge. White knights live for this kind of play. Win-win-win.

 

[Han Zulu]

There's at least as many "good guy groups" in ED as there are "bad guy groups". We named a few earlier in the thread. So really vetting wouldn't be an issue. The white knight groups are well known in ED. Adel's Armada for example patrols Eravate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a report of their members ganking an unarmed trader/explorer. They will gank us pirates or the 13th though. We are ok with that.

That's the way it should be. Also, the issue of having anyone turning on you in a "white knight" group can be handled through the squadron management now. By promoting, demoting, or discharging a member, there is a form of reward and punishment in place.

You do have apoint about defending a group your size. But really if a few white knight squadrons patrolled your stopping spots (whatever you call them) they would simply hunt the gankers, keeping them occupied somewhat. Adel's basically does exactly this in Eravate. They don't wing with sidewinders all day. They patrol the system.

I believe you're right. Having a presence can sometimes be a deterrent, or at least it will be a barrier/wall that can stop or delay an attack on the civilians to give them ample time to escape. And it's not a matter of winning or surviving really for a defender in such a situation, it's about making sure those you are to protect can be safe, while you put yourself in harms way and risk of loss.

I still think its a good suggestion although instancing may make it less viable an idea. Fun for all involved too. Explorers will be attacked with or without it but with it there's a better chance they won't. Gankers would enjoy the challenge. White knights live for this kind of play. Win-win-win.

It's better to try than not, and instancing (like you saw in my earlier post) can be handled somewhat with having explorers winging up with one or more defender.

It's not a brilliant or perfect system, but it's something, and I hope that the Palaeni incident will be a spark that brings more defense forces to life. And that would also provide much more interesting PvP play going forward.

 

[Rock-Hermit]

There's at least as many "good guy groups" in ED as there are "bad guy groups". We named a few earlier in the thread. So really vetting wouldn't be an issue. The white knight groups are well known in ED. Adel's Armada for example patrols Eravate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a report of their members ganking an unarmed trader/explorer. They will gank us pirates or the 13th though. We are ok with that.
You do have apoint about defending a group your size. But really if a few white knight squadrons patrolled your stopping spots (whatever you call them) they would simply hunt the gankers, keeping them occupied somewhat. Adel's basically does exactly this in Eravate. They don't wing with sidewinders all day. They patrol the system.

I still think its a good suggestion although instancing may make it less viable an idea. Fun for all involved too. Explorers will be attacked with or without it but with it there's a better chance they won't. Gankers would enjoy the challenge. White knights live for this kind of play. Win-win-win.

And how many of those groups are willing to spend the next 10 months of their game time policing an event that's going far from their BGS/PVP hunting grounds just on the off-chance they may see some action at a waypoint once a week? And even if the whole lot of them banded together they still wouldn't be able to police a multi-thousand player event that will have hundreds of different instances to get defenders in every time there's a meetup. Like I said, all this is so easy on paper isn't it? But there are so many pitfalls its just never going to work. Go and have a hard rethink on what you're saying and post it here in detail. Then lets pick it a part bit by bit in a constructive manner and see what's left. I think your idea is honorable and in an ideal game it would be brilliant. But Elite just isn't that game for this kind of thing, it just isn't. PG is the only workable answer sadly

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

And how many of those groups are willing to spend the next 10 months of their game time policing an event that's going far from their BGS/PVP hunting grounds just on the off-chance they may see some action at a waypoint once a week? And even if the whole lot of them banded together they still wouldn't be able to police a multi-thousand player event that will have hundreds of different instances to get defenders in every time there's a meetup. Like I said, all this is so easy on paper isn't it? But there are so many pitfalls its just never going to work. Go and have a hard rethink on what you're saying and post it here in detail. Then lets pick it a part bit by bit in a constructive manner and see what's left. I think your idea is honorable and in an ideal game it would be brilliant. But Elite just isn't that game for this kind of thing, it just isn't

I'm not spoon-feeding this to you all. I'm not on your journey. I showed up to kill a few of you at the first Omega-whatever it was stop 5k from the bubble and like most of my squadron, decided to go back home. If you think its a worthless idea then fine by me. But I'm not going to work out the details for you. Contact the white knight leaders and ask them if they think its viable for them. Easy to find them. They're all on discord. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/65-Groups-amp-Squadrons has their agenda usually. Its not a perfect idea. But not without merit either. Again, its being done in Eravate. Has been for a while. Instancing and all.
Or poo poo my idea and continue to die = eat rebuys. Reminds me of anti-war passivists in a country invaded. They didn't ask for it or want it, but refuse to accept they need to defend themselves, so they die.

 

[Rock-Hermit]

I'm not spoon-feeding this to you all. I'm not on your journey. I showed up to kill a few of you at the first Omega-whatever it was stop 5k from the bubble and like most of my squadron, decided to go back home. If you think its a worthless idea than fine by me. But I'm not going to work out the details for you. Contact the white knight leaders and ask them if they think its viable for them. Easy to find them. They're all on discord. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/65-Groups-amp-Squadrons has their agenda usually. Its not a perfect idea. But not without merit either. Again, its being done in Eravate. Has been for a while. Instancing and all.
Or poo poo my idea and continue to die = eat rebuys. Reminds me of anti-war passivists in a country invaded. They didn't ask for it or want it, but refuse to accept they need to defend themselves, so they die.

People don't have to die though do they? That's the point. They can play in a PG or in Solo mode or make their own groups for friends only. People who are still playing in Open are doing it because they want the adrenaline of danger on their trip. I haven't seen anyone complain on here about being killed in open play on distant world. There may be some who have complained but its tiny in comparison. So why all the fear mongering and suggestions of fixing something that's working as intended? Its starting to sound like the pvp crowd are getting desperate to get more people to play open mode and dreaming up all sorts of flawed ideas to make it happen.