Hardware & Technical High-end HOTAS & control options?

TorTorden_VR

T
Zeeman said:
I don't seem to remember the Virpil stuff being that pricey (or maybe I just mentally blocked it?), but seriously, it's really nice stuff. Having had a T16000, Warthog, Logitech 3D, I can say the Virpil sticks are worth every cent (I own both the T-50 and the WarBRD), and the precision is insane. The adjustability of the T-50 is really nice, though I think the WarBRD has a better cam design (we're talking very slight improvements here).
The T-50 is no longer sold, so that point is moot, but overall, right now, a VPC base with the Warthog grip, and a CH Pro throttle is probably the best ED HOTAS you'll find. The VKB T-rudder pedals are also a very nice addition, and I love mine for ED - works very well with my "office chair" Commander seat setup.

Yeah, it's pricey, but it is *really* nice gear, and buttery smooth and special forces sniper precise. The Warthog base shows it's flaws and dated design when compared with a VKB or VPC back to back, though, it is still a nice stick in it's own right.

Z...
Click to expand...

Well I'm adding up shipping, the 25% taxes, taxes are added after shipping, and the tax collection fee, yes they charge me $25, to charge me $110 VAT...


Yeah, like I have said before.
Anything decent is perfectly fine for Elite.

Decent being the attack 3, or TM x.

The 16000m hotas, x52\56 is good.
I would rate the Warthog as great.

The Virpil and VKB are Great++.
There honestly really isn't much of anything I can't do with the setup I have that my buddies with a 16000m or x56 can't do right next to me.
But it is just amazingly nice to have :p
Gives me the warm fuzzies honestly to how precise and smooth it responds.
 

who?

who?
TorTorden said:
Odd you can't use the eight.
First thought.

Is the mode selector in position 1 ?
If it is in two or more those eight are sent as higher number buttons.
Out of the box at mode two those eight start after the last normal one so at 50 something, at 5 the last one sends button push 81 if memory serves.

In mode 1 those eight should start at 22-29, the arming switch is then 30-31 and the very first toggle (t2) is button 32.

As for resistance there as an Allen key nut on the left. I think out of the box that is somewhere near the 25% of tension.

As for center detent I have simply removed it for now.
It is quite detrimental for when I'm using it as a collective and as for elite I still prefer my forward only throttle range.

Not because ìt doesn't work, even though it has shorter throw than the hawg it manages to be more precise.

Like any new gear, especially for elite where inhale nearly 3k hours of muscle memory it took me week or so to get comfortable.
Click to expand...

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. (* and my personal tech support).

I'd have found the allen key for resistance adjustment (eventually), but it's good to know now. :)

I'm undecided about the centre detent. I was going to give it a try and use the full-range throttle, but I've found there's enough movement in and around the detent that even with the lever centred, the ship can still move up to about 10m/s, which is a big deal if you're trying to nudge your ship up close to a station/rock and then stop dead. I'll have to look up how to remove that detent.

I wouldn't have had a clue about the Mode selector. Initially I thought it was just another control, and was going to use it for my fire groups. Then I realised it sets the LED colour. I didn't realise it actually changes the button layout. Switching to 1 did set it up as you say. That's.. not the worst, I have all the level controls, the 8 buttons, and 1-axis lever, and the two knobs. It's mostly just lacking the flip switches and the 3 encoders. And I plan to have the Warthog throttle to the side, so I'll have no shortage of switches.
 

TorTorden_VR

T
who? said:
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. (* and my personal tech support).

I'd have found the allen key for resistance adjustment (eventually), but it's good to know now. :)

I'm undecided about the centre detent. I was going to give it a try and use the full-range throttle, but I've found there's enough movement in and around the detent that even with the lever centred, the ship can still move up to about 10m/s, which is a big deal if you're trying to nudge your ship up close to a station/rock and then stop dead. I'll have to look up how to remove that detent.

I wouldn't have had a clue about the Mode selector. Initially I thought it was just another control, and was going to use it for my fire groups. Then I realised it sets the LED colour. I didn't realise it actually changes the button layout. Switching to 1 did set it up as you say. That's.. not the worst, I have all the level controls, the 8 buttons, and 1-axis lever, and the two knobs. It's mostly just lacking the flip switches and the 3 encoders. And I plan to have the Warthog throttle to the side, so I'll have no shortage of switches.
Click to expand...

Happy to help.
I tried with the 50% detent for a few days and the throttle in full range as well before I decided to remove it.

That was as much for Anything else as Elite, Most jets and their throttle goes 0 to 100, not -100, 0, 100.
So going back to forward only made more sense, keep in mind I have almost 3000 hours in elite with a forward only setting, I don't really see much point in changing it because I can.

Made a few changes today though, I put the ol' t50 mongoose grip back on instead of the Delta, I just like that grip better and am redoing keybinds.
And honestly not missing the analog thrusters much anymore.
I was mostly missing the vertical ones for achieving light touchdowns, it just seems more proper to touch down at <6ms, than 120ms.
And yesterday I got the idea of why not using the scroller for a vertical axis ?

And this is actually working, regular binary thrusters on a hat, and the vertical axis on the scroller for the soft landings.
 

who?

who?
Some minor feedback on the Virpil throttle; they've made some minor changes to the original model (which I only realised when it arrived), but generally for the better.

They've added LEDs around the controls in the base, and a 5-way mode switch; removing two flip switches in the process. They've also subtly updated the materials/controls elsewhere - the buttons and wheel in the levels are all black now, with a centre dimple on the buttons to make them easier to hit. And the level handles themselves have a different material, they're not glossy plastic as on the originals, but have a 'diamond plate' like surface on the pilot-side, and a grippy matt surface on the rear. Looks much better, IMO. The buttons in the base are slightly different too, more square and flat than the original model.

One minor quirk - on the Warthog, when the throttle is at 0, the levers are almost vertical. On the Virpil, the levels are tilted about 30 degrees back towards you. This makes it a tiny bit awkward to keep your hand on the throttle and still use the side-controls, since you need to tilt your hand backwards to do so. A very minor inconvenience, but IMO one thing the Warthog does better.

On the build quality, the Vipril is excellent BUT a few of the controls look really cheap. The flip switches are very loose and flimsy, in comparison to the Warthog's. And the yellow button with the red 'flange' seems very plasticy and cheap in comparison with the other buttons.

It has substantially less ballast than the Warthog throttle too, though I don't think it'll be moving about much.

I'm still discovering extra buttons too - I hadn't realised that pushing the thumb-stick is an additional button, and you can also push the 3 encoders for 3 extra buttons. (Well, you could if the game recognised them!!) #ImAButtonAddict
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Two of the side hat's where originally supposed to only be two-way as well, but both was changed a few months before release to 4-way.

Yeah the angle is a bit odd in the full zero position, only way to fully remove that is to get a sliding throttle I notice this on the hawg as well, but since there is far fewer buttons there and a touch more space it's less precarious.
Also as for heft, the Hawg has lead weights in it, without them it would be closer to a ch-pro than the virpil.

I'm slowly getting used to angle shift, one thing was I need to get this throttle closer to me than the others since it's lever position is less central in the throttle.

From:
4QxFBgVh.jpg

To:
IMG_2354untitled.jpg

Moved it closer to center by about 10-12cm and raised it about the same, so I could slide my chair in position and so I wouldn't bang my legs into it.
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Well I think I'm going to have to say no to the VKB.

And yes, I think I have problem.
And it's getting a little cramped here now..


20181213_204753.jpg

I might have to find a support group.

Besides learning to fly space planes all over again...
 

who?

who?
While I'm waiting for the VKB stick (and the Black Hog b-explorer HOTAS extension) to arrive, I've been looking at the other control options out there. Just to make myself miserable. There seem to be quite a lot of options...and I used to think the Warthog was high-end!

Found the following high-ish rudder pedal options (will add on throttle and stick options in a later post)


TPR Rudder System:
https://www.flightsimwebshop.co.uk/...Y3dCC7_rQ7PFDLa-MPbog1HpR0IYG08QaAo9KEALw_wcB
Price 467.10 UKP


Virtual Fly Ruddo
https://www.flightsimwebshop.co.uk/virtual-fly-ruddo.html
Price 926.50 UKP


VKB-SIM T-Rudder
https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-iv/
Price 199 euros


CH Pro Pedals
https://www.flightsimwebshop.co.uk/ch-products-pro-pedals-usb.html
Price 160.20 UKP


MFG Crosswind
Price 320 euros



Slaw RX Viper
Price $550


Baur BFD-F3
Price ~200 euros? (Not certain, couldn't find a page in English)

The TPR system looks very cool. The only pedals I've tried are the Crosswind. The Slaw and Baur also are very nice, though you'd probably be waiting a loong time.
 

who?

who?
JetsonRING said:
Check out: www.virpil.com o7
Click to expand...

Cheers!

Already have their throttle (ordered thanks to the feedback in this thread). I don't think they have any pedals, though I did read that the designer behind the Baur pedals has now joined Virpil? I don't know if that's true or not; but may indicate Virpil pedals are on the way too.
 

BurnyBurns

BurnyBurns
who? said:
Cheers!

Already have their throttle (ordered thanks to the feedback in this thread). I don't think they have any pedals, though I did read that the designer behind the Baur pedals has now joined Virpil? I don't know if that's true or not; but may indicate Virpil pedals are on the way too.
Click to expand...

No idea about the exact nature of their partnership, but he is/was at least involved in the design of the WarBRD (The BRD comes from his name if I'm not mistaken) joystick base.

Can vouch for the Crosswinds. Absolutely bloody magnificient set of pedals. Elegant, simple, robust, accurate and configurable. But they need to be fixed on some solid base (board or similar) or must be pushed against something.
 
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who?

who?
Update:

It looks like the VKB Gunfighter / Gunfighter Pro etc. will be released on Feb. 25th. Not really sure what exactly that means - new orders accepted, or pre-orders finally starting to be delivered. Hopefully the latter, since I've been on pre-order since late October. :)

Also Black Hog have updated their site, indicating they've made some improvements to the b-explorer design, meaning shipping slips from mid February to mid/late March. Nice to see there seems to be 3 choices of control layouts, that's a very, very nice touch. It means you could easily buy two, one for a throttle extension and a different layout for the stick extension module. (Note to self: please, please don't).
 

TorTorden_VR

T
The CH-pro pedals is what I upgraded from and they where honestly just upper end of medium.

Competing more with the cheaper thrustmasters and saitek pedals, but at least compared with the saiteks they have actual springs and not rubber bands.

The Crosswinds where a big upgrade.
And so far I don't see any reason to switch them.

So far I'm honestly more likely to start looking at wheels, racing pedals and shifters before adding more stuff to the flight setup.

And I honestly don't do much racing what so ever.
 

who?

who?
Ok, a while back I promised a list of some (high-end) HOTAS throttles I found. Oops. So here are the best (i.e. most ridiculous and expensive) that I've found:

Thrustmaster Warthog throttle (duh! 264 euros + shipping)
KANTTORIN KONE (WWII style throttle, 535 euros + shipping)
VKB TECS throttle (modern throttle, with optional modular extensions. Base is $200, modules extra, but I'll believe that if/when it launches!)
Virpil MongoosT-50 throttle (Much like the Warthog, though with more buttons/dials/encoders in base, 300 euros + tax + delivery)
Skalarki A-320 throttle quadrant (for the LOLs. In no way is this suitable for ED. But fun to consider anyway. Will cost ya about 2000+ euros)

There are quite a few lower-end throttles, but at the high-end there aren't as many options as there are for sticks.
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Hmm.

Have we mentioned Brunner yet?
https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-joystick/

Force feedback joystick gimbal, think it's grip compatible with warthog/virpil grips.

Just a mere pittance at €1249.
What software it's compatible with is a good question.

Pedals, also motorised, Force feedback.
https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-rudder-with-toe-brakes/

Also they have this listed as a product, with no price.

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/vr-motion-200/
 

Bill Clement

Bill Clement
If anyone's after an affordable motion sim, I'm quite taken with this one?

https://www.pagnian.co.uk/buy/next-...orm-v3-for-gtultimate-v2-and-flight-cockpits/

Pagnian will sell you a complete simpit- seat, frame and fixing points rocks in at £700, a flight pack is £70, giving you lots of options for mounting flight sim kit, with a variety of stands, connections etc for monitors, keyboard, table and so forth available to suit your needs or budget.

If your TV/monitor is wall mounted you could get a full motion simpit for less than £3300. That's not cheap (way out of my league) but it's achievable for most of us. You'd have to want it pretty bad, mind! [haha]
 

Zeeman

Zeeman
who? said:
Cheers!

Already have their throttle (ordered thanks to the feedback in this thread). I don't think they have any pedals, though I did read that the designer behind the Baur pedals has now joined Virpil? I don't know if that's true or not; but may indicate Virpil pedals are on the way too.
Click to expand...

Yes, Baur (BRD) now works with/for Virpil. The warBRD (note the BRD) uses he scissor gimbal design. I'd expect his pedals to make an appearance at some stage.

Z...
 

who?

who?
Been waiting since late October for an update on my VKB Gunfighter Mk II pre-order, still nothing. There's an "available April 7" on the site now (was "available March 7" I think, a few days ago, "available February..." before that). I don't know if these are multiple pre-order windows, or just one window that's slipping. No idea if/when existing pre-orders are being fulfilled.

Emailed VKB a few days ago asking if they could provide any update, no reply.

:(
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Yeah, I have been shaking my head at that for awhile, even though I cancelled mine.

Honestly at this point in time the VKB's are looking entirely theoretical.

In the meantime, Virpil has another restock on the 15th 6pm.
And the difference between the Mcg pro and the new mongoose grip looks a lot smaller.

https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-mongoost-50cm2-grip.html

★ 1 x Dual-stage trigger
★ 1 x Flip trigger (1 x tactile button in the down position and 1 x non-tactile button for up position)
★ 4 x Momentary buttons
★ 3 x 4-way + push hat
★ 1 x 8-way + push hat
★ 1 x 2-way + push hat
★ 1 x Brake lever (analogue axis)


It could be interesting I actually was interested in getting this grip last time, and checked their site at 7:08.
Restock was at 7am.
The site barely managed to load, and by the time I had it in the basket at 7:10 it was out of stock..
 
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