Would that be the same person that's complaining it's too easy? You're not really selling it Vindelanos
Would that be the same person that's complaining it's too easy? You're not really selling it Vindelanos
Or maybe they know to just ignore the cesspit that is reddit.
Generalizations are normally useless. Generalizations like this are intellectually criminal. Your posturing over PvEers is exactly the same as some of the postures from PvEers over PvP players, just a mirror image. You, and a bunch of other commenters, are no better than they are. Same crap, different direction.
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I'm pretty sure anyone who loses their mind with every setback will give up on Elite very quickly. (For me it would have been the time in my second week of play when I flew out to a Guardian ruin and made a crater next to it, then rebought back at Meene). When we're experienced it's easy to forget how steep the learning curve was.
Deleted member 115407
D
Would that be the same person that's complaining it's too easy? You're not really selling it Vindelanos
heh - touche
I empathise Vin, I've suggested & supported loads of ways to make the game 'better' (subjective term), it can be extraordinarily difficult to get even pretty straightforward proposals across.
Why would making the game 'better' for you make it better for all? What features are you describing, and what are their benefits? What are the downsides, and how are they easily mitigated?
I think the 'differentiate populated anarchies from unpopulated systems, and make anarchies dangerous like Reidquat in the original game' is a good proposal, I think making stuff like black holes dangerous is fair enough but a bit pointless (because it will still be easy to avoid them).
If you can articulate 'not just combat' a bit better it'd be helpful, if you can state a wider intention (eg reward flying with PvP safe defences because it will be useful for something else that PvE players will commonly experience) that'd be helpful too.
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Ah yes, but what if like Neutron Stars & White Dwarfs, there was a potential advantage to getting close to a Black Hole......but at the potential cost of even greater physical damage than the aforementioned Star Types?
I'm not really understanding the issue with the system security levels. They mean exactly what they say and behave accordingly.
If you're in a high security system and you get interdicted, System Security will respond in seconds, usually a wing of 3 Vipers. Sometimes a Python as well. They will probably be expert level or higher, and probably have some engineering or at the very least some heavy hitting weapons.
If you're in a medium security system, System Security will take a minute or two to respond. Maybe a Viper or two will show up. Competent to Expert level, probably not engineered and standard weapons.
In a low security system, help could take several minutes to arrive (in my latest experience a single Eagle showed up 7 minutes into my fight with a Dangerous, chaff and SCB spamming, FA off Python).
In an Anarchy system, nobody is coming to help you.
That is all the security levels are supposed to represent. How much help will arrive and how long it will take. It's working just fine.
Think of it this way. Walking through a bad neighbourhood is dangerous, but if you're 8 feet tall, 350 lbs of muscle, packing a high power weapon and wearing body armour, it's less dangerous.
If you're in a high security system and you get interdicted, System Security will respond in seconds, usually a wing of 3 Vipers. Sometimes a Python as well. They will probably be expert level or higher, and probably have some engineering or at the very least some heavy hitting weapons.
If you're in a medium security system, System Security will take a minute or two to respond. Maybe a Viper or two will show up. Competent to Expert level, probably not engineered and standard weapons.
In a low security system, help could take several minutes to arrive (in my latest experience a single Eagle showed up 7 minutes into my fight with a Dangerous, chaff and SCB spamming, FA off Python).
In an Anarchy system, nobody is coming to help you.
That is all the security levels are supposed to represent. How much help will arrive and how long it will take. It's working just fine.
Think of it this way. Walking through a bad neighbourhood is dangerous, but if you're 8 feet tall, 350 lbs of muscle, packing a high power weapon and wearing body armour, it's less dangerous.
What you say is correct, however:
In a low security populated system the existential threat from NPCs could be raised to make it feel more like running the gauntlet, as it did in the original Elite where just reaching the station felt like an achievement. There is room for improvement here but I don't think it would be enough to satisfy everyone. It may provide opportunities for lucrative trading or rich mats sources to reward skill, potentially to replace the use of instance switching exploits at places like Dav's Hope, and if the rule is generalised to something like dictatorship controlling faction and low security BGS manipulation could create & remove these dangerous systems, providing a source of conflict between Utopian and Dystopian playstyles. I don't really see populated anarchic systems as being worse, but they could be equally dangerous due to the lack of authority. Trade would be very profitable in a dangerous system but a pirate may attack you in frustration if you are empty rather than just flying away.
In a high security system crime is still possible (and should remain so) and the police already (generally) show up very quickly and NPC attacks are infrequent. I don't see much need to change this, but piracy & assassinations could be more lucrative (I don't know whether payouts are good enough already, it's not something I've done in policed space for a long time).
In both cases skill is rewarded without detracting from existing playstyles, but I don't think either case would present much more than a temporary distraction to the dedicated PvP player, for whom only a beating a real player will do. I'm happy for players like that to come up with their own ideas.
I don't really have a problem with dangerous regions of space, a player can go to them for the challenge and maybe a shortcut (neutron boosting is an example of this) or avoid them & substitute skill/bravery for tenacity. Trading in My T-9 I may plot a longer route that avoids travelling through dangerous regions, exploring in my paper aeroplane I may divert to avoid radiation damage (for example), where a better protected ship might have a lower jump range and take longer to get there but could take damage at a slow enough rate for repairs to be sustainable. Situations that favour paper aeroplanes could work too. We already have regions reachable only by high-jump range ships (exploring the fringes of the galactic disk), the radiation could instead act on the higher density armoured ship as a heatsink, with radiation damage being harder to sustainably repair.
However just making the NPCs harder for everyone (as was crudely applied in 2.1 for example) has proved unpopular. Some players like to fight one enemy for ages, some like to fight off multiple 'lesser' foes. Bugs aside the general level of ambient NPCs needs to be consistent more than anything, I think any large change here is going to be poorly received.
There are things like having to constantly keep an eye on fuel (as is the case when exploring in a Sidewinder for example) or having to continually repair the ship (if 'radiation' damage is applied everywhere) would quickly just become another grind for most people I think. Having to find Sulphur & Phosphorus to keep the SRV fuelled is an example of this, although the actual inconvenience of having to search for SRV fuel while consuming SRV fuel is very low for all but the newest of players now that we can store so much of both at no expense.
Personally I'm happy for the game to remain unchanged but there is room for more risk without making the game worse for anyone.
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Imagine how much more engaging the game could be if one of the following scenarios could play out on a regular basis.
(1) Your Commander is a smuggler & occasional Pirate. You've been caught out in this profession a few times lately, & so your notoriety is sitting around 3 at the moment. This is both good & bad: Good because that will drop to zero by the end of the week (assuming you're not caught again beforehand) & that Notoriety will result in much better payouts at various Black Markets. Bad, because that notoriety will be picked up with even a fairly low level KW scan.....which will make law breaking much harder for you to get away with. All that aside, you've decided to smuggle some Narcotics into a Hi-Security System, because you know of a Black Market that will offer good prices for it (assuming they're currently open). Due to your notoriety issues, though, you need to avoid all the security patrols in the system-as they will routinely do low-level scans on your ship if given half a chance. However, you know that these patrols are practically non-existent off of the main shipping lanes. So you bring up your Orrery Map, which shows the routes of all the major shipping lanes, & plot way-points that keep you away from those shipping lanes as much as possible. Of course, all you need to worry about is Pirates.
(2) Your Commander decides to risk taking cargo into a Lawless/Anarchy System, to take advantage of the much higher prices on offer. In this scenario, the pirates you're worried about will be on the shipping lanes, so now there is yet another reason to plot a course that keeps you off the shipping lanes......though safety is still not guaranteed.
(3) Your Commander decides to run weapons to an Allied Faction fighting a war in the System you are travelling to. In this scenario, you need to avoid being scanned by ships of the opposing faction, who will almost certainly want to make an example of you-Conflict Zone or not (especially if you have chosen to side with your allies at some point during the current BGS cycle). You will also need to avoid Checkpoints, which have the ability to slow your ship-or even pull it out of Super-Cruise. At which point you will almost certainly be Manifest Scanned (military equipment is currently illegal in this system, due to the war). Lastly, there might also be minefields scattered around the system, which can "Interdict/Damage" your ship if you get too close to one of them.
In all of these scenarios, the ability for ships to be scanned in Super-Cruise, coupled with varying scan strengths & varying means of evading a complete scan, would just make travelling in-system much more engaging than the snooze fest it tends to be right now.
(1) Your Commander is a smuggler & occasional Pirate. You've been caught out in this profession a few times lately, & so your notoriety is sitting around 3 at the moment. This is both good & bad: Good because that will drop to zero by the end of the week (assuming you're not caught again beforehand) & that Notoriety will result in much better payouts at various Black Markets. Bad, because that notoriety will be picked up with even a fairly low level KW scan.....which will make law breaking much harder for you to get away with. All that aside, you've decided to smuggle some Narcotics into a Hi-Security System, because you know of a Black Market that will offer good prices for it (assuming they're currently open). Due to your notoriety issues, though, you need to avoid all the security patrols in the system-as they will routinely do low-level scans on your ship if given half a chance. However, you know that these patrols are practically non-existent off of the main shipping lanes. So you bring up your Orrery Map, which shows the routes of all the major shipping lanes, & plot way-points that keep you away from those shipping lanes as much as possible. Of course, all you need to worry about is Pirates
.(2) Your Commander decides to risk taking cargo into a Lawless/Anarchy System, to take advantage of the much higher prices on offer. In this scenario, the pirates you're worried about will be on the shipping lanes, so now there is yet another reason to plot a course that keeps you off the shipping lanes......though safety is still not guaranteed.
(3) Your Commander decides to run weapons to an Allied Faction fighting a war in the System you are travelling to. In this scenario, you need to avoid being scanned by ships of the opposing faction, who will almost certainly want to make an example of you-Conflict Zone or not (especially if you have chosen to side with your allies at some point during the current BGS cycle). You will also need to avoid Checkpoints, which have the ability to slow your ship-or even pull it out of Super-Cruise. At which point you will almost certainly be Manifest Scanned (military equipment is currently illegal in this system, due to the war). Lastly, there might also be minefields scattered around the system, which can "Interdict/Damage" your ship if you get too close to one of them.
In all of these scenarios, the ability for ships to be scanned in Super-Cruise, coupled with varying scan strengths & varying means of evading a complete scan, would just make travelling in-system much more engaging than the snooze fest it tends to be right now.
See, I disagree with the first part of your point, but not the second. For example, I would like to see a system of "Wear & Tear" in the game, but not so punishing that players are forced to get their ships services every few days-but punishing enough that if they fail to get their ship services (not just repaired) on a semi-regular basis, then there will be increasing chances of systems failing to work properly. Such a system would be more of an issue for long range explorers to worry about, but even they could get around it by doing Preventative Maintenance on their ships every so often.
This game needs to impose itself upon the player?
Well, when it finally gets around to proactively doing so, my Hutton Space Trucker Holo-Me may have to kill himself.
399,000 cr. For a trip to FTM at Hutton. PLUS another sightseeing spot.......
Seriously. What premium grade, moon sugar dusted, gillyweed infused, Mary Jane-crack was this Chief Medical Officer smoking before making this travel request? And a ROUND TRIP from none other than white dwarf demon star system LFT 367?? Merlin's saggy Y front.
This is --- by far --- the epitome of what the most parsimonius, overly entitled, rip off con artist of a NPC Scrooge passenger on a backwater Orbis looks like. By at least a minimum 100 round trip Colonia hyper jumps......
Seriously FDev. Fix rubbish transport missions like this. They take up valuable mission space on the passenger board. Especially if keeps coming up as the only highest paying credit transport mission in the station.
Edit: the degree of assault by PC censorship on the English language and Webster's Dictionary is truly disturbing.....
Well, when it finally gets around to proactively doing so, my Hutton Space Trucker Holo-Me may have to kill himself.
399,000 cr. For a trip to FTM at Hutton. PLUS another sightseeing spot.......
Seriously. What premium grade, moon sugar dusted, gillyweed infused, Mary Jane-crack was this Chief Medical Officer smoking before making this travel request? And a ROUND TRIP from none other than white dwarf demon star system LFT 367?? Merlin's saggy Y front.
This is --- by far --- the epitome of what the most parsimonius, overly entitled, rip off con artist of a NPC Scrooge passenger on a backwater Orbis looks like. By at least a minimum 100 round trip Colonia hyper jumps......
Seriously FDev. Fix rubbish transport missions like this. They take up valuable mission space on the passenger board. Especially if keeps coming up as the only highest paying credit transport mission in the station.
Edit: the degree of assault by PC censorship on the English language and Webster's Dictionary is truly disturbing.....
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Deleted member 115407
D
Holy smokes, this is a lot for a CMDR to read.
I'll get back to you cats tomorrow.
Plus, Marc... I'm, happy that you're still around. Appreciated you since my first days on the forums
I'll get back to you cats tomorrow.
Plus, Marc... I'm, happy that you're still around. Appreciated you since my first days on the forums
Possible others:
- Fines for slamming into docking pads based on how much damage would have been done without the shields. Same for station walls, entrances, etc.
- No docking should succeed at "speeding" or greater speed.
- Increase costs for ships by one order of magnitude.
- Get those gorram Thargoids into regular space and supercruise.
- Fines for slamming into docking pads based on how much damage would have been done without the shields. Same for station walls, entrances, etc.
- No docking should succeed at "speeding" or greater speed.
- Increase costs for ships by one order of magnitude.
- Get those gorram Thargoids into regular space and supercruise.
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I quite like that
I've been flying shieldless quite a bit recently, maximising cargo space for station repairs & it's a useful reminder to be smooth & gentle with the landings & going through the letterbox. I normally (with full power to shields) scrape through any old way & bang down onto the deck like a boss
[video=youtube;Vs89VLUVd78]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs89VLUVd78[/video]
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Holy smokes, this is a lot for a CMDR to read.
I'll get back to you cats tomorrow.
Plus, Marc... I'm, happy that you're still around. Appreciated you since my first days on the forums
Glad to be here, Vin
.I think so much can be added to the game if we make the Super-Cruise experience more engaging overall. Scanning vs Stealth/Jamming Options, more ways to be pulled out of Super-Cruise.....that kind of thing
.Imagine how much more engaging the game could be if one of the following scenarios could play out on a regular basis.
(1) Your Commander is a smuggler & occasional Pirate. You've been caught out in this profession a few times lately, & so your notoriety is sitting around 3 at the moment. This is both good & bad: Good because that will drop to zero by the end of the week (assuming you're not caught again beforehand) & that Notoriety will result in much better payouts at various Black Markets. Bad, because that notoriety will be picked up with even a fairly low level KW scan.....which will make law breaking much harder for you to get away with. All that aside, you've decided to smuggle some Narcotics into a Hi-Security System, because you know of a Black Market that will offer good prices for it (assuming they're currently open). Due to your notoriety issues, though, you need to avoid all the security patrols in the system-as they will routinely do low-level scans on your ship if given half a chance. However, you know that these patrols are practically non-existent off of the main shipping lanes. So you bring up your Orrery Map, which shows the routes of all the major shipping lanes, & plot way-points that keep you away from those shipping lanes as much as possible. Of course, all you need to worry about is Pirates
(2) Your Commander decides to risk taking cargo into a Lawless/Anarchy System, to take advantage of the much higher prices on offer. In this scenario, the pirates you're worried about will be on the shipping lanes, so now there is yet another reason to plot a course that keeps you off the shipping lanes......though safety is still not guaranteed.
(3) Your Commander decides to run weapons to an Allied Faction fighting a war in the System you are travelling to. In this scenario, you need to avoid being scanned by ships of the opposing faction, who will almost certainly want to make an example of you-Conflict Zone or not (especially if you have chosen to side with your allies at some point during the current BGS cycle). You will also need to avoid Checkpoints, which have the ability to slow your ship-or even pull it out of Super-Cruise. At which point you will almost certainly be Manifest Scanned (military equipment is currently illegal in this system, due to the war). Lastly, there might also be minefields scattered around the system, which can "Interdict/Damage" your ship if you get too close to one of them.
In all of these scenarios, the ability for ships to be scanned in Super-Cruise, coupled with varying scan strengths & varying means of evading a complete scan, would just make travelling in-system much more engaging than the snooze fest it tends to be right now.
I like this.
Never looked at it that way until this post.
The game needs more engaging AI enemy dialogue from factions that you have made upset from your activities. The faction should send soldiers to constantly search and destroy you until you either kill enough of them or negotiate a truce by doing certain activities like sabotaging their planetary base assets or by doing favors to settle the grudge. All could be managed through the comms with a multiple choice dialogue similar to what is already in-game.
As for aliens, there needs to be more attacks on CMDRs whenever they are within an invaded system and more weird/strange behavior from aliens would make it captivating.
Where there is wreckage, there needs to be some gory bits like frozen bits of flesh/limbs that will smash onto your canopy and wreckage that will pepper your hull and shields when near.
Missions should include some form of detective work or hunt for clues/objects to be handed to authorities to engage some sort of story mission.
Planetary base attacks needs more anti-aircraft turrets and sentries so you will need to fly lower and use no lights with the SRV.
Powerplay is an of game development. Really needs more thought.
What makes this game shine is the graphics, sound platform and control customization for HOTAS. Its what saves it from being binned.
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Whether we like it or not, Elite is designed for grinding. Making the game challenging would impede that.
As for random space dangers and harshness etc. The player must be given a way to navigate hazards, that's a basic requirement of design, otherwise they are just playing a frustrating game of dice. Once players become skilled at navigating hazards, they can avoid them, and this is the point that players become bored and complain. This is pretty much the reason Dark Souls is not really considered a difficult game, because the game's hazards can be learned and mastered with experience. Same goes for Elite. Both games are considered not as hard games, but rather as hard to approach games for new players.
The only kind of games I can think of that are actually hard, are reflex games like Super Hexagon. All of those types of games require the player die often, regardless of experience, because of the physical limits of human reflexes. Not sure how dying often translates into fun in a game like Elite.
As for random space dangers and harshness etc. The player must be given a way to navigate hazards, that's a basic requirement of design, otherwise they are just playing a frustrating game of dice. Once players become skilled at navigating hazards, they can avoid them, and this is the point that players become bored and complain. This is pretty much the reason Dark Souls is not really considered a difficult game, because the game's hazards can be learned and mastered with experience. Same goes for Elite. Both games are considered not as hard games, but rather as hard to approach games for new players.
The only kind of games I can think of that are actually hard, are reflex games like Super Hexagon. All of those types of games require the player die often, regardless of experience, because of the physical limits of human reflexes. Not sure how dying often translates into fun in a game like Elite.
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I role-play my character. A member of the PF, who lives a dangerous life (at least in principle). Why should my character not fly properly equipped ships? Why should my character not stack the odds in his favor?
Not that it matters. Games should offer some kind of challenge to the player to keep them interested. You may disagree with me over the form or the intensity of that challenge, but don't come here telling me I should be acting like a moron just so I can do the game's job and create my own challenge. If you don't want a challenge, or if the level of challenge is just fine for your taste, just say so, but don't come questioning in bad faith the legitimacy of my complaints.