Dear Frontier, could you tell us the status of mods?

[Ramm]

Hello Frontier,

I am wondering if there are any updates regarding mods. Are they still planned? I do hope so. We have steam workshop but it currently is only used for blueprints, it would be so much better if we could use them for mods too. Would be nice to know if it's still planned, or somewhere in the near future. As long as the plans still exist I hope

Thanks

 

[inspectorgadget1]

Can't imagine they're looking into supporting this officially any time soon. Seems like something they would implement towards the later stages of PC's lifespan in a couple of years post expansions/DLCs etc? Although Andy did state at the end of last year they were working on it so who knows? [wacky]

 

[Ramm]

Can't imagine they're looking into supporting this officially any time soon. Seems like something they would implement towards the later stages of PC's lifespan in a couple of years post expansions/DLCs etc? Although Andy did state at the end of last year they were working on it so who knows? [wacky]

Hmmm not necessarily. Cities Skylines supported mods also right away and got plenty of succesful DLC later on. I can't remember Andy saying that at the end of last year, do you maybe know where that was? Still... it's 6 months later so I hope we could get maybe an update anytime soon [big grin]

 

[Citytrader]

Have to agree with gadget. Why would they kill the fatted calf?

They have only released two (now three) free expansions. I mean, what if their first paid expansion is going to be a Main Street USA type thing. But first, they allow UGC. Then someone puts out a free download of Main Street USA stuff. There goes all of Frontier's work out the window, not to mention a lot of their sales.

After the game has run it's course, and Frontier decides they have done all they can with the game, that is the time to allow UGC and let the community take over.

I am not familiar with cities skyline so I can not draw a comparison there. But the other thing to consider is that Planet Coaster has only been out a few months, so again, why wouldn't they want to capitalize on their new product?

 

[Chems]

If Frontier is going to sell scenery and building items the game will die. It will rip the community apart. Building is the entire back-bone of this game, so selling those items basically forces people to buy them if they want to keep using the workshop.

Also, modding goes way beyond importing models. Think about all of the balance tweaks we could perform by ourselves with modding. The friction would be fixed within a day. Management balance would be fixed, etc, etc.

However, modding isn't all sunshine and happiness. The current assets in Planet Coaster are of an incredibly high level of quality. They are perfectly optimized for the kind of game (spawning lot's of assets). I am not saying modders can't produce assets of this quality, but the majority can't, just look at Cities Skylines. Another problem is compatibility. A new update for the game can completely break people's saves when certain mods stop working, etc. Of course, you can choose not to use mods, but it is still a problem to consider for the more casual players.

I am all for opening the game up to modding, but it has to be done right, something Frontier agrees to as well. We know they are working on mod-tools for the game and I would love to have an update about them (why so silent Frontier!!).

 

[Citytrader]

If Frontier is going to sell scenery and building items the game will die. It will rip the community apart. Building is the entire back-bone of this game, so selling those items basically forces people to buy them if they want to keep using the workshop.

Chems, have to totally disagree with you. So what you are saying is Frontier should never release expansions? That's silly.

Now, whether they release a full scale expansion (like the other game) or perhaps just add-on packs is immaterial. The Sims have been doing this sort of thing for years, and it has certainly not "ripped the community apart". In fact, it has done the opposite. Yes, of course, you will get the occasional whiner who can't download some asset because they are too cheap or poor to purchase that one add-on that contains those pieces, but so what? If they wanted that particular asset so badly, they would buy it.

I held off buying expansions to that "other game" for years, and frankly didn't miss much. But when I realized I needed them to use certain UGC, I bit the bullet and bought them. I'm sure that is how the community will go.

Remember, at the end of the day, Frontier is a business, in business to make money, and giving away the store to placate a few dozen die-hards is no kind of way to run a business. They will continue to support and make make new assets for this game until the revenue dries up. Not the other way around. They won't give away their revenue to placate a few vocal members.

 

[Chems]

Chems, have to totally disagree with you. So what you are saying is Frontier should never release expansions? That's silly.

Now, whether they release a full scale expansion (like the other game) or perhaps just add-on packs is immaterial. The Sims have been doing this sort of thing for years, and it has certainly not "ripped the community apart". In fact, it has done the opposite. Yes, of course, you will get the occasional whiner who can't download some asset because they are too cheap or poor to purchase that one add-on that contains those pieces, but so what? If they wanted that particular asset so badly, they would buy it.

I held off buying expansions to that "other game" for years, and frankly didn't miss much. But when I realized I needed them to use certain UGC, I bit the bullet and bought them. I'm sure that is how the community will go.

Remember, at the end of the day, Frontier is a business, in business to make money, and giving away the store to placate a few dozen die-hards is no kind of way to run a business. They will continue to support and make make new assets for this game until the revenue dries up. Not the other way around. They won't give away their revenue to placate a few vocal members.

No I am not saying Frontier should never release expansions. I was more thinking about small 'optional cosmetic purchases'. Should have made that more clear. Anyway, with how the building works in this game, selling scenery or building items as micro-transactions would totally be anti-consumer. Sure Frontier needs to make money but there are plenty of other directions they could take. And I bet the majority would be against these kinds of DLC. And even with full paid expansions they could still release the assets for free, just take a look at Cities Skylines to see how proper DLC should be handled.

Have a look at Elite Dangerous with it's extremely overpriced DLC. Why would anyone want to see that happen to Planet Coaster? Oh, and in Elite these DLC are actually 'optional' DLC. In Planet Coaster, selling scenery and building items like that would make them almost required to purchase if you want to keep using the workshop, which is a huge part of this game. It would be Planet Coaster's way of 'pay to win'.

I remember when Frontier first announced they would be introducing cosmetic purchases. Everyone was against the kind of DLC I mentioned above, for the same exact reasons. I wonder what happened to their plans, by the way. They announced this in the winter update announcement. They even removed the DLC filter from the game because people it was too much 'in your face' for most people, if I remember correctly.

Frontier could make different themed coaster trains, or ride skins, or whatever. These could default to their basic form if you do not own them so you aren't locked out of 99% of the workshop.

 

[jemand123]

Well from a development side it is not such an easy thing to do if you did not include this aspect right from the start. I dont say it is impossible; but at the moment, people are hyped for new stuff, expansions, scenery, rides, features such as fireworks.

A mod supporting game has to do this in a way that it is more than a pain in the butt. No one wants buggy, limiting possibilities of accessing game mechanics. They need to think about what they want to make accessible and plan how - and such things may take more time than you'd expect.

I personally think they are focusing more on stuff that is stunning and faster to finish. People want to see progress and the majority would not approve of waiting 9 months until an update.

 

[mbc]

I agree totaly with Chems, if you do DLC on items, this will end up in an frustrating point, even if it is only in terms of "theming", where, if you dont have bought that theme, the item changes to a generic theme.
This will smash down the whole game and takes away its wonderful magic.

Its easy to do, and there is also an intelligent way.
They SHOULD do paid DLC (at a fair price), for keep up work on the game, without making money the project will die. I also see no sin in doing an PC2, why not constantly updating this game, so its fine for years instead of only a few 24 months-periode?
DLCs should be done in a way no one gets "hurt". If you download something and it doesnt appear (missing DLC-Part) or it changes its visible style (missing DLC-Theme) its bad.

They sould do it the following way:
Open MOD on a supported way, so people can do their own stuff and import them. With that you get a near unlimited way of importing stuff. Customer have lots of possibilities then and it gets not boring waiting for new content, because everyone cancreate and import it.
It shouldnt be that compliacted to create an import-editor, so people can use this to import stuff correctly to the game, of course work, but not that much, as long it start with static parts only.

DLC should only be done in non-harming ways, that means:
Make DLC for example water : better water-simulation, waterfalls, additional water-rides, terrain-tools, ...

PC is for creative people, so why not making advanced editors as DLC ?
A better coster-editor with advanced features. An editor for animatronics, an editor for Dark-rides, ...

That way everybody can download every stuff without restrictions, but if you want to create the stuff by your own, you have to buy the editor aka DLC ...
The base game is cheap, you can try it, if you like it and get inspired by it and you want do more by yourself, you can buy DLC to extend the possible options. This is a fair way to make money with DLC (fair price).

Ideal for kids also, base-game is cheap, for adults who wants to do more: they have to pay mor to get it ...

 

[Ramm]

Have to agree with gadget. Why would they kill the fatted calf?

They have only released two (now three) free expansions. I mean, what if their first paid expansion is going to be a Main Street USA type thing. But first, they allow UGC. Then someone puts out a free download of Main Street USA stuff. There goes all of Frontier's work out the window, not to mention a lot of their sales.

After the game has run it's course, and Frontier decides they have done all they can with the game, that is the time to allow UGC and let the community take over.

I am not familiar with cities skyline so I can not draw a comparison there. But the other thing to consider is that Planet Coaster has only been out a few months, so again, why wouldn't they want to capitalize on their new product?

Then how come people didn't make Mass Transit UGC or Natural Disaster UGC before the DLC was released?

 

[Citytrader]

Then how come people didn't make Mass Transit UGC or Natural Disaster UGC before the DLC was released?

I have no idea what you are talking about. "mass Transit UGC" for what? Cities Skyline? I already stated I am not familiar with that game.

I'll go back to my original premise. What if you, {yes you!}, spent months painting the perfect painting, all the while anticipating all the money you will get when you put it up for auction, only to find out that someone else created the same painting, perhaps not as nice as yours, but they were giving their dozens of copies of their painting away for free. You would be upset, angry, and disappointed that you earned no money at all for all your hard work. No one is going to pay money for your painting when they can get basically the same thing for free.

Now, given that scenario, insert Frontier for you, and UGC for that other someone.

See the issue now?

 

[Chems]

There is no issue. Just look at Cities Skylines. It manages to sell DLC and have UGC at the same time.

 

[Ramm]

I have no idea what you are talking about. "mass Transit UGC" for what? Cities Skyline? I already stated I am not familiar with that game.

I'll go back to my original premise. What if you, {yes you!}, spent months painting the perfect painting, all the while anticipating all the money you will get when you put it up for auction, only to find out that someone else created the same painting, perhaps not as nice as yours, but they were giving their dozens of copies of their painting away for free. You would be upset, angry, and disappointed that you earned no money at all for all your hard work. No one is going to pay money for your painting when they can get basically the same thing for free.

Now, given that scenario, insert Frontier for you, and UGC for that other someone.

See the issue now?

Frontier can do way more than what a modder can so since they developed the engine and the game so doubt this will be the case.

With your argument this could mean we will never have mods like that which is a very, very bad thing.

There is no issue. Just look at Cities Skylines. It manages to sell DLC and have UGC at the same time.

+1 exactly

 

[Adri]

Joël shared this in the update thread:

[video=youtube_share;3kZZF1ikkMM]https://youtu.be/3kZZF1ikkMM[/video]

Around 2:25 he mentions: 'It's our first step in (kind of) UGC.'
It's not really clarifying - though it confirms for 100% that UGC will be coming to the game.

 

[Robert K]

Billboards are another way of adding custom content to the game in the form of images and videos. That is a step toward being able to import 3D models which will come eventually.

 

[Chems]

Billboards are another way of adding custom content to the game in the form of images and videos. That is a step toward being able to import 3D models which will come eventually.

Exactly. We already have UGC in the game via importing our own sound files. The billboards allow us to import custom textures and even videos so yea another exciting step in the right direction. We could create our own walls and stuff with billboards. We already know Frontier is working on proper mod tools but to get them perfect it takes a lot of time and will definitely be worth the wait.

 

[Ramm]

Joël shared this in the update thread:

https://youtu.be/3kZZF1ikkMM

Around 2:25 he mentions: 'It's our first step in (kind of) UGC.'
It's not really clarifying - though it confirms for 100% that UGC will be coming to the game.

Thanks, thats interesting to see. I do hope it will be more than just changing the image on the billboard but also make your own billboards for example and other props.

Billboards are another way of adding custom content to the game in the form of images and videos. That is a step toward being able to import 3D models which will come eventually.

Yes it's going the right way like this [big grin]

 

[danijami23]

I have no idea what you are talking about. "mass Transit UGC" for what? Cities Skyline? I already stated I am not familiar with that game.

I'll go back to my original premise. What if you, {yes you!}, spent months painting the perfect painting, all the while anticipating all the money you will get when you put it up for auction, only to find out that someone else created the same painting, perhaps not as nice as yours, but they were giving their dozens of copies of their painting away for free. You would be upset, angry, and disappointed that you earned no money at all for all your hard work. No one is going to pay money for your painting when they can get basically the same thing for free.

Now, given that scenario, insert Frontier for you, and UGC for that other someone.

See the issue now?

Sorry mate, but I have to categorically disagree with you here. It seems you're demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of both the modding community and nodding itself. It has been shown and proven time and time again that modding in games (especially ones like PC) are a successful move for the game, and if anything only have a positive impact on sales. Skyrim, Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect, Rimworld, Kerbal Space Program, Arma, all the Source games, Garry's Mod, Minecraft. I mean, crikey on a bikey I could go on all day about commercially successful games all day long and I bet you couldn't think of 2 examples of games that were destroyed by modding (apart from illicit hacks which exist without mod support).

Anyway, now that I've scored all my points, Chems is absolutely correct, there is no reason Frontier couldnt monetize this game's future and support mods; it's up to FD how much of the game's code they let you fiddle with, and the Steam Workshop is easily curatable for stolen DLC so that's never going to happen which kind of throws your painter analogy out of the window. Also on that point, do you really think modders have the time and resources to creat UGC with the same kind of detail, care, and authenticity as Frontier? These guys spend MONTHS researching and creating and finalising these rides, and it's clearthat they're some of the best in the business; if some 2-bit modder with blender makes better content than them then they deserve To be hired!!

To be perfectly honest the only thing that'll make me play this game again in earnest (unless Frontier rework the management which is clearly not happening) will be UGC, so I'm in 100% support of it. If you think you have a point to make against it then feel free to make one, but I'd advise you research that argument a bit first because you're missing a heck of a lot.

 

[Citytrader]

Sorry mate, but I have to categorically disagree with you here. It seems you're demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of both the modding community and nodding itself. It has been shown and proven time and time again that modding in games (especially ones like PC) are a successful move for the game, and if anything only have a positive impact on sales. Skyrim, Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect, Rimworld, Kerbal Space Program, Arma, all the Source games, Garry's Mod, Minecraft. I mean, crikey on a bikey I could go on all day about commercially successful games all day long and I bet you couldn't think of 2 examples of games that were destroyed by modding (apart from illicit hacks which exist without mod support).

Anyway, now that I've scored all my points, Chems is absolutely correct, there is no reason Frontier couldnt monetize this game's future and support mods; it's up to FD how much of the game's code they let you fiddle with, and the Steam Workshop is easily curatable for stolen DLC so that's never going to happen which kind of throws your painter analogy out of the window. Also on that point, do you really think modders have the time and resources to creat UGC with the same kind of detail, care, and authenticity as Frontier? These guys spend MONTHS researching and creating and finalising these rides, and it's clearthat they're some of the best in the business; if some 2-bit modder with blender makes better content than them then they deserve To be hired!!

To be perfectly honest the only thing that'll make me play this game again in earnest (unless Frontier rework the management which is clearly not happening) will be UGC, so I'm in 100% support of it. If you think you have a point to make against it then feel free to make one, but I'd advise you research that argument a bit first because you're missing a heck of a lot.

I am not against modding at all. Not at all. Heck, I created quite a bit of custom scenery for that other game, which was hacked.

I also did a bit of research, and several of those games you mention did in fact add modding after a year or two of release. Several started with it. In fact, I mentioned Sims as an example of good integration of modding.

I think the point I am trying to make that everyone has missed is TIMING. I believe, (totally my opinion) that after what, six months of release, that Frontier is not finished their "vision" for Planet Coaster. I also believe we will see several paid expansions (perhaps full blown expansions or micro transactions) BEFORE UGC is released.

This is my opinion, which I am totally entitled to.

So to conclude, I have never stated I was opposed to UGC, or it would not happen, I just think that the timing is not going to be as quick as many of you have hopes for.

 

[Chems]

No I think you miss the point. We say UGC and DLC can co-exist. You should really take a look at Cities Skylines (mod support from day one which improved the game a thousandfold and it releases solid DLC packs). The only reason it cannot co-exist is if Frontier decides to monetize scenery and building objects. Something I am pretty sure they were considering.

We will also be introducing cosmetic optional purchases for those of you who want to give your parks that little extra personality!

This was posted 5 months ago, and since then we haven't heard a thing about DLC. I am pretty sure Frontier realized that scenery/building objects micro-transactions would be a bad idea. Most people were and are against this since it will rip the online community apart and will leave a very negative mark on the game. I have said it before, but it would be PC's version of pay to win. And nobody except likes pay to win.