PvP The Deadliest Ganker Tactic - The "Double Yo-Yo"

MAAD DAWG

MAAD DAWG
I encountered this ganker tactic in the Homeworld (Shinrarta Dezhra) system one evening between 8:30-9:00 p.m. MDT. while piloting an all Class A component, Grade 5+ engineered, FDL with Prismatic Shields.

I high waked into the system to purchase components at the Jameson Memorial station. Immediately, I saw 2 human piloted ships near my destination. Both moved to intercept my path.

I was interdicted. I focused on my Targeting panel to target my interdictor when another ship entered our space. Before I could assuredly target either ship, I was hit by a PA with TLB. If I had a target lock on either ship, I lost it.

I turned back toward my canopy and radar view to see one ship in front of me, one behind me. I targeted the ship in front of me. I was instantly shot from behind by the second ship which broke my target lock again.

I attempted to re-target. As I did, both enemy ships exchanged positions at high speeds, one in front of me, one behind me. Again, I targeted the ship in front of me. I was instantly shot from behind by the other ship, which again, broke my target lock.

Rinse, repeat, maybe 3 times. My ship was destroyed.

All of this happened in approximately 20-30 seconds. It was the fastest time in which I've ever been destroyed in a well engineered ship.

The gankers were using what I would best term a "Double Yo-Yo" tactic with me always in the middle of their yo-yo maneuvers.

I paid the insurance to reacquire my FDL, made my way to the Jameson Memorial station in Solo play mode, and exchanged ships. I selected my all Class A component, Grade 5+ engineered, Corvette with Prismatic Shields. I returned to Open Play mode.

I left Jameson Memorial station and took a short cruise around the Shinrarta Dezhra system to attempt to study their tactics and see how they did it, since I was fairly certain they were hanging out in this system. The System communication panel lit up with a message: "This time he has a Vette."

I was interdicted again and the same pattern of engagement ensued. This time, I didn't try to engage them. I boosted to nearly-out-of-weapons range and high-waked to a nearby system. Damage to my ship: none to hull, shields down 2/3rds. Total engagement time was approximately 20-30 seconds.

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This is the deadliest ganker tactic I've ever encountered. Against 2 very practiced pilots using PA w/TLB, and almost certainly using HOTAS, I don't think a solo pilot stands a chance.

One ganker was piloting a FAS; don't know about the other pilot. Their names? Odd, not easily memorable, and there was not enough time for me to study and remember them. Every time I tried to do something, look at something, my ship was hit.

I would welcome any ideas on how a single pilot could counter and win against these 2 gankers.

If you play on an XBox 1 and want to experience this tactic for yourself, I encourage you to visit the Homeworld (Shinrarta Dezhra) system between 8:30-9:00 pm MDT. I am pretty sure these 2 gankers hang out in this system because it has a very high traffic rate which gives them a lot of fresh meat.

It is the deadliest ganker tactic I have ever encountered. Any and all comments are welcome.
 

Rinzler o7o7o7

Banned
Rinzler o7o7o7
TLB spam is pretty common, and I guarantee this was not a deliberate or elaborate gank tactic. Just two ships ganking in a 2v1 with standard PA loadouts, which both happened to have TLB's equipped.

Your main mistake was when you decided to hang around in the instance and try to target both ships instead of getting out of there. I'd recommend following the escape tactics in this video next time you're ganked:

Git Gud Guide to Trading
 
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JetsonRING

JetsonRING
MAAD DAWG said:
Your recommendation is a good one and well taken. However, I'd like to turn the tables on these people. I'm open to suggestions.
Click to expand...

A great way to counter such aggression would be to fly with a wing-man or with a wing/group of other players. Your opponent had help, you should have had help too before attempting a two-on-one fight with opponents who, between them apparently possessed capabilities beyond your own. Also: Situational Awareness! The moment a second ship showed up I would have probably boosted and high waked instead of taking time for "assessment". In fact, when "on task" and not looking for trouble I will generally avoid combat and will often run away when interdicted by a human CMDR.
 

TEBORI

TEBORI
well the best move when ganked 2v1 is to activate 2 further wingman.
countering TLB is difficult.
at least there is a small cooldown now.

on a bigship you could use fixed beamlaser and aim without sensors. but thats really hard.
best move which works for casuals is high wake sadly.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Slange Lands said:
So if one is in a highly engineered PvP medium sized ship and interdicted by two humans, one should always wake out immediately?
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Unless you have reason to expect you're more skilled, or at least know you can survive long enough to delay them for some purpose, yes.

A veteran CMDR against a pair of novices is a fair fight. A pair of experienced CMDRs against a single novice is just target practice.
 

True Phoenix

True Phoenix
Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
TLB spam is pretty common, and I guarantee this was not a deliberate or elaborate gank tactic. Just two ships ganking in a 2v1 with standard PA loadouts, which both happened to have TLB's equipped.

Your main mistake was when you decided to hang around in the instance and try to target both ships instead of getting out of there. I'd recommend following the escape tactics in this video next time you're ganked:

Git Gud Guide to Trading
Click to expand...

This, watch the video, I did a long time ago when I decided to play open. It's never been superseded. I got ganked in SD the other day, 4 v 1, I was in my Corvette which is highly engineered. I did fire on the first target and then boosted, evaded, changed pip settings, retracted weapons and pressed "o". O is my short cut to the next hi wake destination as I usually plan for one jump beyond my destination system. Boosted and evaded whilst turning to the hi wake target and jumped. Works well.
 

MAAD DAWG

MAAD DAWG
Thanks to all of you for posting your remarks, observations, and experiences. I will adjust my PvP play accordingly.

In the incident I related, I had no idea of the experience level of my 2 opponents. They were really good, very fast, faster than I could respond, even with my heavily engineered FDL and Corvette (all components A rated, Grade 5+ engineered). Both of my ships have good weapon loadouts, tough hulls and shields, and SCBs. I don't think in either interdiction I ever got a lock and fired a shot. They were that fast. Their tactics were excellent, almost certainly rehearsed many times.

In the last 2.5 years, I've lost about 30+ ships to gankers. I have never encountered any gankers as good as these 2 pilots were.

I bet those 2 guys have destroyed thousands of ships. They appeared to be very practiced. It's probably all they do. Plus, I was using an XBox 1 controller; I'm pretty sure they were using HOTAS. Everything they did was executed quickly and efficiently with very precise aiming of their weapons. An XBox 1 controller is no match for a properly setup HOTAS in the hands of an experienced pilot.

I'm not exactly an inexperienced pilot. I'm ranked Triple Elite. I have over 23,000 kills bounty hunting; I've lost one ship, an Eagle. I've taken on 3 Elite Anacondas in a wing using just a Vulture with 2 beam lasers and destroyed all 3 of the Anacondas. But I don't have much PvP experience. I'd like to get more of it.

I'd like to get as good as the gankers and take them on, but I think to be that good, I'd have to become a ganker myself and practice destroying other ships. I think that's all they do. Me, I'm like most ED players: I have a small fleet of ships that I use to do many things. I don't spend all my time practicing fast, efficient murders.

I really appreciate all of your posts. Hope to see you in the black.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
MAAD DAWG said:
Your recommendation is a good one and well taken. However, I'd like to turn the tables on these people. I'm open to suggestions.
Click to expand...

2 vs 1.... ideally, never engage an enemy on their terms. The way to beat them is have more than they have, you need 2 friends and then beat them 3 vs 2.
 

TEBORI

TEBORI
MAAD DAWG said:
Thanks to all of you for posting your remarks, observations, and experiences. I will adjust my PvP play accordingly.

In the incident I related, I had no idea of the experience level of my 2 opponents. They were really good, very fast, faster than I could respond, even with my heavily engineered FDL and Corvette (all components A rated, Grade 5+ engineered). Both of my ships have good weapon loadouts, tough hulls and shields, and SCBs. I don't think in either interdiction I ever got a lock and fired a shot. They were that fast. Their tactics were excellent, almost certainly rehearsed many times.

In the last 2.5 years, I've lost about 30+ ships to gankers. I have never encountered any gankers as good as these 2 pilots were.

I bet those 2 guys have destroyed thousands of ships. They appeared to be very practiced. It's probably all they do. Plus, I was using an XBox 1 controller; I'm pretty sure they were using HOTAS. Everything they did was executed quickly and efficiently with very precise aiming of their weapons. An XBox 1 controller is no match for a properly setup HOTAS in the hands of an experienced pilot.

I'm not exactly an inexperienced pilot. I'm ranked Triple Elite. I have over 23,000 kills bounty hunting; I've lost one ship, an Eagle. I've taken on 3 Elite Anacondas in a wing using just a Vulture with 2 beam lasers and destroyed all 3 of the Anacondas. But I don't have much PvP experience. I'd like to get more of it.

I'd like to get as good as the gankers and take them on, but I think to be that good, I'd have to become a ganker myself and practice destroying other ships. I think that's all they do. Me, I'm like most ED players: I have a small fleet of ships that I use to do many things. I don't spend all my time practicing fast, efficient murders.

I really appreciate all of your posts. Hope to see you in the black.
Click to expand...

no you dont have to become a ganker. there is also a global lawful pvp community.
we are about 100 pvpers and fight this gankers every day and also defeat some of them with coordination, tactics and skill.
they will try to discredite us here cause they dont want we get more and more but just look at my youtube channel or my twitch broadcasts and you will see the truth.
 

Rinzler o7o7o7

Banned
Rinzler o7o7o7
TEBORI said:
no you dont have to become a ganker. there is also a global lawful pvp community.
we are about 100 pvpers and fight this gankers every day and also defeat some of them with coordination, tactics and skill.
they will try to discredite us here cause they dont want we get more and more but just look at my youtube channel or my twitch broadcasts and you will see the truth.
Click to expand...

OP said he wants to get good though
 

Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
MAAD DAWG said:
But I don't have much PvP experience. I'd like to get more of it.
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As you are on XB1, reach out CMDR Cknarf https://forums.frontier.co.uk/members/cknarf.136218/ as there's a sort of "permanent" PvP hot-spot in the bubble (as it was San Tu until it was overtaken by a faction and lost its anarchy status). Otherwise, you can eventually join a squadron / player faction involved in PvP activities (as we Dark Marauders, do for piracy).

I don't want to raise a case in point, but a good G5 engineered PvE ship is not necessarly as much as reliable for PvP situations.

o7 and fly safe!
 

viper666

V
I admire the OP's quest of trying to figure out what was going on. Sure, 2v1 with gankers running PA TLB is sure death if you hang around.
I will give an exam of how effective PA TLB is. I got interdicted in Kamandehu while collected power play supplies for Al Duval. I'm in a heavily engineered Krair Mkii, other pilot is in a shieldless Cobra, so I submit to interdiction, deploy weapons (Gimballed Burst, Beams, and multi cannons) It wasn't long before I noticed I was losing target lock, so knew it was PA with TLB. I have 1,119 Mj of 6C biweave shields (Guardian shield booster.)

It took him about 3 minutes to get my shields down, and all the while I am getting his hull down, simply by using gimbal unlocked (aka not selecting the target). At 65% hull and no module damage (stacked MP) I got my shields back, and did a full face boost ram. That took him down to 5% hull, so he boosted and high waked.

He accepted a friend request, and we had a great chat about the fight. This was not of course ganking or griefing as he was with a different power play faction, so it was legitimate PvP, and shows why powerplay should be OPEN MODE ONLY.

Same session, i went to Jameson memorial to do some upgrades, this time in my Chieftain, got interdicted by an FDL, submitted and started fighting, couldn't even begin to get his shields down, so I'm thinking shield tank FDL, he's getting mine down, so it's retract weapons, target next system and hi wake out.

Back to the OP, what you experienced, in fighter pilot talk, was drag and bag and/or rope a dope. Live and learn, and kudos for sharing what you found out.
Advice, NEVER push a bad position, get the hell out of dodge in a hurry.
 
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