Think trading, particularly rare trading routes, as well as road to riches, and federal/imperial rank grinds. There's a lot of jumping done in short sequence with those activities. But again, I don't think it's the travel time that's the issue. It's more the repetitive sameness. If that could be improved with some more variation, or some alternate interesting or challenging mechanics, it could positively impact the gameplay experience of all players.
In game travel - the critical flaw?
- Thread starter captaincoveman
- Start date
- Status
Think trading, particularly rare trading routes, as well as road to riches, and federal/imperial rank grinds. There's a lot of jumping done in short sequence with those activities. But again, I don't think it's the travel time that's the issue. It's more the repetitive sameness. If that could be improved with some more variation, or some alternate interesting or challenging mechanics, it could positively impact the gameplay experience of all players.
Not so in a combat ship though. My Conda is normally out in the Pleiades for Tharg bothering. Going to engi it, or do something else with it, normally means 12-20 jumps. And that's with G5 engineered FSD & Guardian booster. (I don't explo leap ahead because the transport costs for a Conda are nuts).
Honestly, it's tiresome. A risky transit to pre-visited, occupied locations would be a huge improvement. I'd rather pay the occasional cost of massive hull damage and/or death to have some gameplay in that process.
Well I think if people are indulging in grinding then I can see why they would get bored. I once upon a time did a triangle of imps, gold and cons tec to pay for my first 'conda and I couldn't take it for even a whole day. I have always made my own variation in the game experience so when the game is tasked with making me do different things (think engineers) it just really annoys me.
That's why an alternate optional form of travel seems like a good idea to me. I've suggested one before, but it sort of relies on space legs having enough interesting on board activities. @Golgot however has a suggestion for Tether Jumps which just sounds like crazy fun high risk/reward play.
You know all those explorers who moaned when they got exploded on DW2 and were told they should have built tougher ships?
Your complaint is simply the flip-side of that discussion.
It's daft to build a flying anvil and then moan that it can't jump in exactly the same way that it's daft to build a beer-can and then moan that it can't fight.
In both cases, to moan about such things is simply to ignore the entire philosophy of ED and, instead, demand that the game changes to suit you.
If this would be single player game, time spent on travelling wouldn't be an issue. You could just have a message tell you that 2 years passed and it wouldn't be boring at all.
There's gigantic galaxy represented in Elite. Billions of star systems stretched over thousands of light years. Travelling those distances should take time, shouldn't it? Travelling from one end to the other should be considered an accomplishment. You should feel that you're far, far away. So how would you make it in game? Turn autopilot on, leave the game running and go for a beer? Return two days later and continue playing? I guess not. Since travel should take time and it should involve player somehow, repetitive actions make sense, because they simulate boring part of travelling - something you must take into account when planning activities - do I have the stomach to travel this, or that distance? Or maybe it's too far for me and I don't have time and patience for this?
There's gigantic galaxy represented in Elite. Billions of star systems stretched over thousands of light years. Travelling those distances should take time, shouldn't it? Travelling from one end to the other should be considered an accomplishment. You should feel that you're far, far away. So how would you make it in game? Turn autopilot on, leave the game running and go for a beer? Return two days later and continue playing? I guess not. Since travel should take time and it should involve player somehow, repetitive actions make sense, because they simulate boring part of travelling - something you must take into account when planning activities - do I have the stomach to travel this, or that distance? Or maybe it's too far for me and I don't have time and patience for this?
It's what I signed up for. But after the intro of the FSS I fear we may one day get jump gates :/
Nope, the game has several years behind it, and it is doing fine, it is hardly broken, you may not like it, but that does not in any way shape or form indicate it is broken.
Its legacy is creating a 1:1 scale universe where distance actually has meaning? so yeah.
Its space, its big, that's the meaning behind it, I know a lot do not like the travel time, but yeah.
Here's the thing, why does any game make you do anything, why can't you just stand in one place and click all the buttons needed to do everything, and get everything? and yeah that is a bit of sarcasm, my point is where is the right line? where is the 'proper' amount of doing anything.
All games make you do "something" that generally does not give you any reward for the time doing it.
Be that having to travel between locations to get somewhere you can do something.
Or be it pressing a ton of buttons to craft something, is that also meaningless? since you will get the crafting anyway, because something is easy to do, but takes time it is meaningless?
Where is the line that defines this?
Look into what kind of game Elite was in the past and what it is now, it is entirely possible that your expectations of what Elite should be are what is wrong and not the game itself.
and that is really what this whole argument boils down to in my book, you are already playing a game, you are by definition doing something for pure entertainment.
You are not doing anything 'productive', if you don't find it entertaining play one of the many other games, and no that is not meant as a "go somewhere else" it is simply meant that all games cannot live up to every other expectation that another game may build, you should have fun with your time, and rather then trying to force a change of something that others might already find fun, maybe you should find something that is fun for you?
This whole topic has resurfaced many of times, and always made very clear that to most the scale, and time needed to travel is not a factor against the game.
If taking the wormhole route id prefer if it had a skill base to it (minigame) .. perform well an you will get to the otherside (where you planned to drop out) , however if done poorly then you would be spewed back into a random spot along the route.
Lestat
Banned
When I did my epic Rags (Penniless) to riches (Elite Trader) with minging Void Opal. Started in a Cobra. I had a choice. Jump 15 20 system or sell them at the nearest station. The price helps determines that choice. But when I paid for a python and upgrade the internals. It went down to 5 to 8 Jumps.
It's good that there are some ways to get around some things, even if they come at a sacrifice, but generally speaking, it's not a healthy philosophy for the game to be avoiding the use of a mechanic and thereby restricting your gameplay options and rewards. That's where suggestions come in for making those mechanics more desirable to use for the sake of using them, rather than just a forced means to an end. It would be nice to have some options with regards to travelling that would make things a little more interesting or varied, and even challenging at times, and it wouldn't even need to make travel time quicker, or not by very much if it did. It would just need to be a little more fun and varied.
Lestat
Banned
Here the thing. This game is about CHOICES. My last remark with the Cobra. I had the choice to sell the Void Opal for 1,650,000 credit each and deal with 15 20 jumps or sell them at the location I mined them at with a station for 500,000 to 700,000 credits. For me it would not matter if it was 50 Jumps that was a good deal. But that my choice to do. If people felt like jumping is annoying they could dock at the nearest station and sell something for the cheaper price.
Yes, the game is about choices, but that doesn't mean that in all cases the existing choices are sufficient. If people felt that jumping has become tedious after the nth thousand time, they could of course sacrifice some of their potential reward in this scenario. However, if the jump mechanic was added to and varied, or if an alternate mode were created, players may not find travel as tedious anymore, and may enjoy it more.
If it came down to deciding whether the game should give you a choice between tedium and lower rewards, or instead implement a potentially fun and engaging or challenging mechanic, the latter I think is better for the game and for players overall. Have a read of @Golgot 's suggestion (the link is in his sig) for Tether jumps, which rewards skill in a challenging and high risk form of travel.
Then what is even the point of the jumps? Every line of argument leads to the same conclusion - that the jumps are a waste of time...
The point of jumps is they are a system of "fast travel" if you will, that allows the player to traverse the game world without having to spend hundreds or even thousands of years sitting at their computer waiting to get from one star system to another. They really do save a lot time actually.
Hope that helps...
Wow!
A serious case of "truth hurts" ED's defenders in the last few pages
And opinion is not fact.
And the argument you're adopting is "you'd have to be crazy to not be bored by travel in this game", which is a value judgement, a matter of opinion, and something you've not demonstrated, making it an unreasonable argument, and a somewhat antagonistic one. I'm sure there are lots of people out there enjoying things that you consider boring. For example, maths and science, reading books, and even casual walks for no other purpose but the walk itself.
Once again, you're also conflating 'boring' with 'broken', much as you tried to conflate 'tedious' with 'broken'. I'm sorry, but neither 'boring' nor 'tedious' are in any way synonymous with 'broken'. The way travel works in this game is intended, which means, by definition, that it's not broken, whether you personally consider it boring or tedious notwithstanding.
Reality is irrelevant for a game of this type as the reality of the far future is completely unknown...what matters is that the game is fun and not like watching paint dry - pretty simple line of argument that folks here are really struggling with it seems...
Main line of argument against me seems to be that the word "boring" means nothing...not a very good refutation
No, the argument there against you is that all of this is your opinion, and a personal problem. Your opinions and personal problems do not constitute sweeping changes to the game that would break it on an elementary level. Fast travel is not happening in Elite, because that would not be internally inconsistent with the rules that Elite uses to emulate a hypothetical reality which means, whether you like it or not, there is a measure of relevance to reality because a lot of what's in Elite is based on how things work in reality. Spinning space stations to produce gravity, orbiting and spinning planets, the general vastness of space, human systems of government and economy, etc. Without 'tedious' travel, the reality of the vastness of space becomes obsolete. At that point, there's no reason to have a 1:1 Milky Way galaxy, and it might as well just be another one of those arcade shooters or theme park RPGs that you seem to prefer so much.
So go play one of them?
Last edited:
I'm torn on that one.
On the one hand I'd love jumpgates.
They would
On the other hand they would
In the end I come to my personal conclusion that keeping it as it is is propably the better way.
On the one hand I'd love jumpgates.
They would
- create emergent content
- provide means of fast travel
- could work as a credit sink (think about having the same costs or higher as ship transfer)
On the other hand they would
- make distances meaningless (I know lots of CMDRs who wouldn't bother to go to Colonia because of the distance, imho that is good, not because I don't want those CMDRs in Colonia but because it shows distance HAS still a meaning)
- would create more emergent content in certain locations (yes that's both pro and con ) (Explorer's Anchorage, while having a lot of ganking in recent history, was imho an outlier, which could see an increase again for example)
- they would make some CMDRs feel their travels would be invalidated
In the end I come to my personal conclusion that keeping it as it is is propably the better way.
No. It's to point out that the pay-off of 'combat ships take ages to get anywhere' is a deeply unfun design decision.
Design decisions can be changed or improved.
- Status