Frontier for the love of....

The game is already missing money sinks, all i can buy is ships and their upgrades. I have amassed a small fortune as i am sure many of you have and i have nothing to buy. This is when the game becomes stale for me.
Exact reason I do not go for the 8 bazillion an hour trade runs. Over the years I have seen posts and videos where someone goes from a Sidey to an A-rated Anaconda in 12 hours. Most times they enjoy doing that... If you have fun doing that, then that's your thing and more power to you. More often than not, I see follow up posts saying how they did that and now the game is boring to them and asking where the challenges are.

While I enjoy the heck out of this game, I also see the faults and errors. It may be weird, but I like it even more for the faults, errors and "lack of story! A mile wide and an inch deep".

As for the OP... meh. I spend real money on HCS voice packs, an ungodly expensive joystick, bigger monitor, comfier chair, and keep thinking about VR. There isn't another game ever that I have spent this much on for extras. I may have upgraded a video card (yes, video card not GPU dang it... and you kids stay off my lawn!) a time or two for a certain game but never anything to this extent. I don't mind tossing a few bucks back into the game every November for cool paint schemes.
 
"I" don't, i just suggested something that might help others. I pledged myself to nerdy engineers months ago, already.
There might be people with credits but no time. It can be an "option" for some who might seek an easy way, due to their RL commitments.

Oh, one last point; there's no "winning" in the game, it's all about the pleasure and joy you find in whichever activities you like doing. But i want to think you already know that.
'Pay to shortcut the gameplay' seemed a less elegant way of putting it, but I do agree with your description of how to view the gameplay- I was just using a more recognised term for this type of mechanic.

The problem I see with this is that first you have to get FDev to admit that the game is a grind and people want shortcuts. Potentially they could then look at this and say that they'll offer an unlock for an engineer for 100 million credits and if that's too much, since we've already established the principle that people will pay for shotcuts, then you can pay 2 euros/dollars/pounds to unlock each engineer.

If time is an issue, there's also the question of making credits in the first place. This easy way would have to be balanced to not make it easier than the gameplay, so some serious costs will have to be involved, which may be just as unreasonable to a casual player. Personally I have no idea how much an alternative to flying down to the Pleiades in an unengineered ship should cost to unlock Farseer, but it seems like this shouldn't be cheap.
 
"pay to win" is using real money, the op and the person you quoted are referring to "in game" credits.
Slippery slopes. Once you've established that people will pay in game credits to skip gameplay and facilitate that, how long before paying actual money to skip the credit making gameplay starts to creep in?
 
Money in the game is a means to an end, it allows you to get the ship(s) you require to play the game how you want.

Money in real life is important to FD and they're not going to start giving away for free stuff that they've previously charged for. I understand why you're unhappy with that, but it's their business plan and they're not about to cut off their own revenues.
 
Really, you want pay to win to start creeping into the game? Hold on, I'm just going to get my popcorn.
Who are you winning against? You have to play the game to get the credits in the first place.
What are you winning? Access to Engi's? Cool. Do you have the mats? No? Go grind for the mats.
What have you won? You have unlocked the Engi's after grinding for mats and money. Cool.
Does that mean you can insta-gib all the other players? No. Why? Because you kind of have to be good at this game. An Engi'd ship doesn't suddenly make you immortal.
You might be extra good at killing the scrublings now, but against seasoned players? Nah .. so .. what are you winning?


* Disclaimer: "You" is being used in the broad sense, and not focused on the individual.
 
when I first started playing Elite I found the painjobs in the store perplexing, in every other game I have played, there are the "pleb colours" and then the fancy skins you can purchase to stand out,

I would have much preferred to have been able to earn some base colours in game, like Red/Green/Blue. and have the more exotic colours be in game's cash store,

I mean if they wanted to be cagey about it they could have locked it behind gameplay, with Ship Paintjobs being locked to federal and imperial rank... or even Combat/Trade/Exploration rank,

As it stands the majority of the paintjobs in the game are incredibly low effort (Fdev literally move a hue slider and call it a new paint job or copy and paste a texture between ship models).

So for me, buying new painjobs has been a way of showing the dev support when good work and progress is shown in the product that's also why I buy platinum in Warframe as a show of support, with the recent missteps and bug ridden messes my ships have all stayed factory standard.

____
In my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion), Frontier need to take a page out of Digital Extremes (DE) book and be more open with their development, I'm drawing the following conclusions based on both games needing ongoing micro transactions for income, so its kinda related to paintjobs.

Fdev show us what you are working on, don't do dates or anything... like the ice planet stuff... it looked great, the mistake there was them saying that it was coming with 3.3. The game director at DE (Steve Sinclair) literally shows up to the Devstreams, and is like, check out this cool new lighting thing we're working on... its still early days but we hope to have it in the game sometime this year or early next year, no promises. Go look at Steve Sinclair's twitter and you'll see what I mean

DE will make a mistake, laugh at themselves with the community and fix it, they don't take themselves too seriously and are all there to give you the best game they can and their passion shows.... where Frontier feels very corporate, they try to be super professional and rigid, then make massive blunders and pretend like it didn't happen or don't see the humor in their misstep. It shows in their community managers engagement, everything feels rehearsed and too much like politician speak. it feels like there are unnecessarily strict gag orders and confidentiality agreements in place at Fdev


Take the last livestream for instance, where they said "we understand that the forum vote may not have been the best option, will will take that into consideration in future II's" beep boop, robotic. whereas a little bit of chilled humor would have been better for me. I would have said "so we see how well the forum vote was received, so... we've spoken to the devs and we are looking into moving more of the game to the forum, features you can look forward to is, forum based commodity markets, galaxy map route plotting via the issue tracker.... I joke, we hear you guys and will be working closely with the devs to make sure future II's are entirely held within the game, thanks for the feedback"

This post was way longer than I hoped and went way off the rails, thank you if you made it this far.
Sadly ain't gonna happen. They'll need to change their whole company culture, and in order to change it you have to fire everyone that doesn't fit in your new company culture and practically start from the scratch.

And regarding DE, I hope you'll agree they're the black sheep of the gaming industry.
 
Who are you winning against? You have to play the game to get the credits in the first place.
What are you winning? Access to Engi's? Cool. Do you have the mats? No? Go grind for the mats.
What have you won? You have unlocked the Engi's after grinding for mats and money. Cool.
Does that mean you can insta-gib all the other players? No. Why? Because you kind of have to be good at this game. An Engi'd ship doesn't suddenly make you immortal.
You might be extra good at killing the scrublings now, but against seasoned players? Nah .. so .. what are you winning?


* Disclaimer: "You" is being used in the broad sense, and not focused on the individual.
One word: PvP.
 
"I" don't, i just suggested something that might help others. I pledged myself to nerdy engineers months ago, already.
There might be people with credits but no time. It can be an "option" for some who might seek an easy way, due to their RL commitments.

Oh, one last point; there's no "winning" in the game, it's all about the pleasure and joy you find in whichever activities you like doing. But i want to think you already know that.
I made a similar suggestion above. The meta gameplay doesn't really do it for me. I don't even have any rank in the Powers, though the Engineers are largely compulsory these last couple of years. I also don't use gold rushes or the like. For me it'd make more sense contextually in the game to buy my way into some of the Engineers. I don't see it actually flying in the game though for various reasons.
 
Sadly ain't gonna happen. They'll need to change their whole company culture, and in order to change it you have to fire everyone that doesn't fit in your new company culture and practically start from the scratch.

And regarding DE, I hope you'll agree they're the black sheep of the gaming industry.
black sheep
noun
INFORMAL
a member of a family or group who is regarded as a disgrace to it.
"the black sheep of the family"

I wouldn't call them the Black sheep of the gaming industry, They may have been considered the black sheep when they were being rejected left right and center by publishers,

But they have built quite a reputation and business model for what by many been stated to be the fairest free to play model out there, some of those publishers that rejected their proposals in the early days are knocking on their door for help and advice regarding F2P today.

The noclip documentary was very interesting on DE, another noclip documentary that I found interesting was the CD Projekt Red one, there is another games studio that has a completely different approach that works for them, their past products give them goodwill with their community, and their community/fanbase knows, whatever comes next will be good (Cyberpunk 2077).

Frontier don't benefit from either of those approaches because of things like Multicrew, Powerplay, CQC... they release something, get negative feedback... then just leave it to rot. so if they are not willing to go back and revisit that content, who says any new content is going to be any good, and wont just be left by the wayside... they are fighting their own history.

Having played many different free to play, subscription based, Once off purchase online games. So far the one that has not left a sour taste in my mouth is Warframe. although its grind can be brutal when not balanced correctly.

I'm by no means trying to white knight on any Dev/publisher's behalf, I'm just saying I would like Fdev come out of their shell.... they have become more withdrawn lately with regards to letting us know whats coming soon etc.

The bottom line for me is, they are not going to keep me investing my time today, if they don't give me a glimpse of whats coming tomorrow.
 
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Who are you winning against? You have to play the game to get the credits in the first place.

How is an hour working to unlock an engineer worse than earning credits for an hour to unlock the engineer? What is gained by adding this? You may already have credits but that just means you've already spent the time earning them.

What are you winning? Access to Engi's? Cool. Do you have the mats? No? Go grind for the mats.
What have you won? You have unlocked the Engi's after grinding for mats and money. Cool.

As soon as you can buy access to engineers people will be wanting to buy mats in the same way (actually this has already been asked for).

Does that mean you can insta-gib all the other players? No. Why? Because you kind of have to be good at this game. An Engi'd ship doesn't suddenly make you immortal.
You might be extra good at killing the scrublings now, but against seasoned players? Nah .. so .. what are you winning?

Are you saying that 2 equally skilled players in the same ship, one engineered, one not would not be incredibly one sided? Seasoned players do well as they will be running an engineered ship.

Could you also go back and please read post 22.

Apologies to the OP as I seem to have helped steer this way off topic from the original request of basic paint jobs for all ships, which I feel is harsh on those who have already spent the money on them. Ok, you could give people refunds, but this seems like a lot of work for someone to do over something cosmetic.
 
black sheep
noun
INFORMAL
a member of a family or group who is regarded as a disgrace to it.
"the black sheep of the family"

I wouldn't call them the Black sheep of the gaming industry, They may have been considered the black sheep when they were being rejected left right and center by publishers,

But they have built quite a reputation and business model for what by many been stated to be the fairest free to play model out there, some of those publishers that rejected their proposals in the early days are knocking on their door for help and advice regarding F2P today.

The noclip documentary was very interesting on DE, another noclip documentary that I found interesting was the CD Projekt Red one, there is another games studio that has a completely different approach that works for them, their past products give them goodwill with their community, and their community/fanbase knows, whatever comes next will be good (Cyberpunk 2077).

Frontier don't benefit from either of those approaches because of things like Multicrew, Powerplay, CQC... they release something, get negative feedback... then just leave it to rot. so if they are not willing to go back and revisit that content, who says any new content is going to be any good, and wont just be left by the wayside... they are fighting their own history.

Having played many different free to play, subscription based, Once off purchase online games. So far the one that has not left a sour taste in my mouth is Warframe. although its grind can be brutal when not balanced correctly.

I'm by no means trying to white knight on any Dev/publisher's behalf, I'm just saying I would like Fdev come out of their shell.... they have become more withdrawn lately with regards to letting us know whats coming soon etc.

The bottom line for me is, they are not going to keep me investing my time today, if they don't give me a glimpse of whats coming tomorrow.
Black Sheep
noun
informal

A person who takes pride on being an outcast because he knows being a weirdo is what ultimately will give him something to be proud of. It usually takes some balls to be a black sheep.

-Hey, whatever became of Vik?
-I don't know, last time I heard he was working in some cool .
-I know right! He is always been such a black sheep!

They are the black sheep of the gaming industry, and you're admitting it yourself by saying that Warframe is the only game that didn't leave a sour taste in your mouth, and I can't agree more. I was away from ED for almost 4 years and spent most of that time playing WF.

What chased me away from ED was PP and the emptiness that existed at that time. When I was 14, I was happy to do the same things over and over again, but not 30 years later. DB once said they make the game that they like to play, but it seems to me that they're a minority. They want to make a sandbox game, but they won't let me play the way I want in the sand, and instead tell me I can play only with stuff that daddy made (PP).

Then they make stuff that no one asked them to (CQC).

Then it takes them almost 3 years to unfold the Thargoid story (from the first UAs to the first encounter).

I'm 100% sure that not all feedback was negative, there are many intelligent players playing this game, but I am 100% sure that their voices were completely ignored. Unlike FD, DE listens to criticism. Using business vocabulary, I'd say that DE's business is aligned and is constantly realigning with their customers.

WF is a horde grinder, but unlike ED, in WF you can avoid any brutal grinding with availability of their premium currency: platinum. You don't like fishing or mining? Buy resources from other players with platinum. Don't have luck with Kora, Harrow or Nidus? Buy them with platinum. In ED there is no economy and there is no currency, because no exchange of currency is possible between players. And no, I don't count gifts in the form of Void Opals as a viable, self-sustaining economy. But I guess that FD doesn't want ED like Eve...

In WF I grind while playing the game / doing fun stuff that I enjoy (which hopefully gets me resources I can sell for platinum, so I can avoid grinding that's just not fun for me). Not so in ED. In ED I have no reason whatsoever to land somewhere and drive around, except to drive around and grind mats for engineering or Guardian stuff. Guardian stuff is cool and interesting maybe for the first 5 visits, but it wears out easily and after that it's just boring relogging just to get those ***ing components. Killing mobs for 2 hours in Mot is fun, even after I did it 1,000 times.

It seems to me that FD recreated Elite from 1984 and doesn't actually know what to do with it.
 
How is an hour working to unlock an engineer worse than earning credits for an hour to unlock the engineer? What is gained by adding this? You may already have credits but that just means you've already spent the time earning them.
Because I don't do black markets, so I don't get The Dweller.
I have no intention of getting cordial with Eurybia Blue Mafia, so I don't get Liz.
I need an invitation from Colonia Council, whoever they are, to get Mel. Edit: I have to go to Colonia to get this one.
I don't care for mining, so I don't get Marsha (unless I can obtain Osmium another way).

50. Lavian. Brandy.
I'll let this screenie from Inara show how much I'm willing to do this:
130737


I haven't checked, but I'm sure there are at least a few upgrades that are "locked" out to me because the game doesn't adequately cater to their own "blaze your trail" mantra.

Indeed, I have spent the time getting the money, and I have not wasted my time doing busywork I don't care to do; but I won't touch most Engineers because I literally couldn't be bothered to go through that nonsense grind wall just to unlock one of them. I honestly have better things to do with my time. Money and mats on the other hand, I get that just playing. I get to engineer my ship, whilst doing things I enjoy.

Money opens the engineer's up to more people, more quickly.

As soon as you can buy access to engineers people will be wanting to buy mats in the same way (actually this has already been asked for).
I'm okay with that too. People should be able to spend their in-game credits on whatever they like.
I am completely against charging real money for in-game credits, but if they've put in the time to get the money.. why not let them sink it into whatever they please?

Are you saying that 2 equally skilled players in the same ship, one engineered, one not would not be incredibly one sided? Seasoned players do well as they will be running an engineered ship.
So don't open up Engineers to the majority, because a minority will be mildly inconvenienced? ... ... 😐

Could you also go back and please read post 22.
Can do, didn't see your response when I posted mine.

Apologies to the OP as I seem to have helped steer this way off topic from the original request of basic paint jobs for all ships, which I feel is harsh on those who have already spent the money on them.
I agree here. I wouldn't want the store basic colours put into the game, not unless I was compensated with a paint pack of my choice.

-

One word: PvP.
Two words: Git gudder.
I'm teasing. :)

On a serious note, as I answered above:
So don't open up Engineers to the majority, because a minority will be mildly inconvenienced?
 
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How in-game paint should work:

Paint jobs purchased in-game with credits would be applied at outfitting to that particular ship, and would have to be repurchased with each rebuy. Lose your ship, lose your colors.

Different stations would have only certain colors available, with most stations only offering one color. Maybe each capital city station would have a unique color, some could require faction rank or be mission rewards. PowerPlay colors would be purchaseable only while you are pledged to that particular power.

All of these could remain for sale in the cash shop and people would still buy them for the convenience of being able to readily apply any color anywhere at any time, and it would likely encourage sales because colors would take on significance for more people.

Also when you are sent to a detention center your ships are automatically painted either orange and white (in Federal territory) or black and white stripes (in Empire territory).
 
Black Sheep
noun
informal

A person who takes pride on being an outcast because he knows being a weirdo is what ultimately will give him something to be proud of. It usually takes some balls to be a black sheep.

-Hey, whatever became of Vik?
-I don't know, last time I heard he was working in some cool poopoo.
-I know right! He is always been such a black sheep!

They are the black sheep of the gaming industry, and you're admitting it yourself by saying that Warframe is the only game that didn't leave a sour taste in your mouth, and I can't agree more. I was away from ED for almost 4 years and spent most of that time playing WF.

What chased me away from ED was PP and the emptiness that existed at that time. When I was 14, I was happy to do the same things over and over again, but not 30 years later. DB once said they make the game that they like to play, but it seems to me that they're a minority. They want to make a sandbox game, but they won't let me play the way I want in the sand, and instead tell me I can play only with stuff that daddy made (PP).

Then they make stuff that no one asked them to (CQC).

Then it takes them almost 3 years to unfold the Thargoid story (from the first UAs to the first encounter).

I'm 100% sure that not all feedback was negative, there are many intelligent players playing this game, but I am 100% sure that their voices were completely ignored. Unlike FD, DE listens to criticism. Using business vocabulary, I'd say that DE's business is aligned and is constantly realigning with their customers.

WF is a horde grinder, but unlike ED, in WF you can avoid any brutal grinding with availability of their premium currency: platinum. You don't like fishing or mining? Buy resources from other players with platinum. Don't have luck with Kora, Harrow or Nidus? Buy them with platinum. In ED there is no economy and there is no currency, because no exchange of currency is possible between players. And no, I don't count gifts in the form of Void Opals as a viable, self-sustaining economy. But I guess that FD doesn't want ED like Eve...

In WF I grind while playing the game / doing fun stuff that I enjoy (which hopefully gets me resources I can sell for platinum, so I can avoid grinding that's just not fun for me). Not so in ED. In ED I have no reason whatsoever to land somewhere and drive around, except to drive around and grind mats for engineering or Guardian stuff. Guardian stuff is cool and interesting maybe for the first 5 visits, but it wears out easily and after that it's just boring relogging just to get those ***ing components. Killing mobs for 2 hours in Mot is fun, even after I did it 1,000 times.

It seems to me that FD recreated Elite from 1984 and doesn't actually know what to do with it.

I also thought Black sheep meant that, then google differed with me and couldn't bring my self to argue with the google overlords :)

but I agree 100%

Killing Mobs in MOT for hours is fun, because it still feels like a game, not a chore, unless its a Nightwave weekly... but there again, in the last DE Devstream they took feedback to heart and adjusted Nightwave season 2 accordingly.

Also you have other fun activities, like breathing Vay Hek's air, or having early lunch with Konzu. Elite needs animated & voiced characters... hopefully that leaked NPC cinematic dialogue in the beta a while back is one step toward it.

+1
 
No.
How much would you like to pay per month?

Yes I would:
5€/month and the package would include:
  • 1 new paintkit for each ship I own every month
  • direct bugs assitance: the bug I report is reproduced and directly confirmed by QA, not by other players
  • every months a set of new missions is released for each type: exporation, mining, trading/passenger transport, combat, pirate
  • every year a big update is released. Something like atmospheric planets (not all at once, also a few type per year is enough) or spacelegs and so on...
if you add personal narrative to the package (which means a set of specific chained missions that go accross all gameplay style) that can guarantee a minimum of 20 hours of gameplay each month plus specific VR contents I can rise my offer to 10€/month.
 
I also thought Black sheep meant that, then google differed with me and couldn't bring my self to argue with the google overlords :)

but I agree 100%

Killing Mobs in MOT for hours is fun, because it still feels like a game, not a chore, unless its a Nightwave weekly... but there again, in the last DE Devstream they took feedback to heart and adjusted Nightwave season 2 accordingly.

Also you have other fun activities, like breathing Vay Hek's air, or having early lunch with Konzu. Elite needs animated & voiced characters... hopefully that leaked NPC cinematic dialogue in the beta a while back is one step toward it.

+1
Let's split the hair regarding black sheeps once and for all. 😂
Meriam-Webster defines black sheep as "someone who doesn't fit in with the rest of a group and is often considered to be a troublemaker or an embarrassment" (emphasis mine).
Vocabulary.com says that "the black sheep is the odd one out, whether he's a disgrace to the family or just doesn't seem to belong."
So it doesn't just mean someone who embarrasses a group or family, it also denotes someone who stands out.

Cinematic dialogues would most certainly help in bringing the game into the 21st century, I agree. Reading text is so 1980, thank God I don't have to write: "Trample spider!" I don't mind reading, I just prefer doing it in books.

Give me a galaxy in which I can produce and sell something, in which I can join forces with others, in which I can build and defend (or plunder) something and have fun while doing all that. :)
 
Noob: "I want to unlock some engineers but I don't have much time to play and I hear it's a supergrind."
ED Vet Friend: "Here's some void opals. Sell them at [insert market-of-the-hour]. Then go buy the engineers."

When a new ship is purchased, let me choose a color. Thank you, FD.
 
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