I been in geo site looking for g5 materials, maybe there are new ones in bubble now, but it took more than 1h and it wasn't even what i was looking for. I m curious how to get it if you not own horizons, if i'm correct only way to get it is via mining and using material trader, so you need to trade in 100:1 relations. I have a lot of engineered modules, i usually do mass engineering of new stuff, and i wouldn't say that that g5 engineering of 8 weapons took less time than unlocking single g3 shock cannon. But it might be related to my in-game activities, getting raw materials is "unconsenual PvE" -at least to me.
Scientific reasons why shock cannons should have increased total ammo
- Thread starter cmdr Ramius007
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Anyone with an SRV can get 25 of both in one hour. It's a handful of metallic meteorites on a good planet.
Don't need a DSS or geosites either. A wave scanner and any suitable planet will do.
No disagreement here.
Still takes more to get an Engineer to G5, or to max out a single G5 mod, than to unlock shock cannon.
The description of tech brokers explicitly states prototype tech. This implies a pre-production part, which is not a final release, and in turn implies that Engineers may not be familiar enough with them to modify them. All of which jives with Frontier's statements on them, and the undeniable fact that they are not comparable to fully Engineered equipment.
And that's what the base weapon is. Nothing about it implies that it would or should compete with another weapon that has been heavily modified through Engineering.
I don't bother with geosites...takes longer in most cases than just knowing what areas likely have the materials I'm looking for, and I rarely carry a DSS. Even when I have a DSS, I'd have what I came for before I was done probing the planet.
I'm almost always continually maxed out on raw materials from just casual/incidental SRV use anyway.
As for human tech brokers without horizons, it's possible through mining and material traders...but I'd expect it to be extremely time consuming.
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I'd agree with giving it a damage type split.
Being described as "Energy Cannons" kinda implies they should have at least either a thermal or absolute damage split. Maybe not a huge amount. I'd settle for 50/50 Kinetic/Thermal or 80/20 Kinetic/Absolute.
But given that they are pretty cool it would be nice if they were a little more effective but then I have'nt tested them in all circumstances so there might well be a power combo I have yet to find.
Whilst on the topic of tech broker gear... Does anyone know if the enzyme missile applies a corrosive style debuff to the hull of any ship it hits? I feel like that could do with a buff more than the shocks though if Im honest.
Being described as "Energy Cannons" kinda implies they should have at least either a thermal or absolute damage split. Maybe not a huge amount. I'd settle for 50/50 Kinetic/Thermal or 80/20 Kinetic/Absolute.
But given that they are pretty cool it would be nice if they were a little more effective but then I have'nt tested them in all circumstances so there might well be a power combo I have yet to find.
Whilst on the topic of tech broker gear... Does anyone know if the enzyme missile applies a corrosive style debuff to the hull of any ship it hits? I feel like that could do with a buff more than the shocks though if Im honest.
Me too, and in practice it would make them more powerful in most cases.
I don't see why it should not apply, even cytos get extra 20 AP with corrosive, but enzyme missiles unlike thargoid variant work only on hull and effect last for some time only. It's hard to balance it, but maybe having to wear of caustic damage like vs thargoids would make it interesting, currently they are useless.
Even if shock cannons are worth g5 modded weapons, IMO even discontinuing ammo issues they would be not, just different, but with higher DPS at short ranges compered to non-screening shell frags, whats wrong with it? Giving capable weapon for lower cost and making bigger # of player be competitive in PvP is bad?
It's completely different topic, but owning fully engineered fleet i would love to see changes to engineering, for example giving g3 mods 80% or something of g5 mods. I don't see levelling playing field to be a bad thing, but i was never that much in that MMO ***.
I just flew to the first planet I noticed in vicinity of my CMDR (well within the bubble, with common reserves) that had both technetium and tungsten, then sloppily drove around a crater for 50 minutes while I had my coffee and breakfast. Ran into a significant dry spell after some inital success, but still found about sixty tungsten and thirty technetium. Currently uploading the most boring video in the universe, if anyone has any doubts.
Making a non-Engineered prototype weapon, that may eventually become an Engineerable production model, competitive with top Engineered weapons is bad, IMO.
Even if there was no chance at it going into full production, I'd still take issue with the imbalance of a broadly competitive weapon being significantly more easy to attain, eventhough I'm not fond of the outfitting wall the Engineer system puts in place.
I thought the state of the game was much better pre-Engineering and despite having five thousand G5 rolls would not be upset in the slightest if they all just vanished.
I always felt Engineering, if it were to exist, should have been much more subtle in effect, and much more costly to insure/replace, than what we got. The CQC
Making a non-Engineered prototype weapon, that may eventually become an Engineerable production model, competitive with top Engineered weapons is bad, IMO.
Even if there was no chance at it going into full production, I'd still take issue with the imbalance of a broadly competitive weapon being significantly more easy to attain, eventhough I'm not fond of the outfitting wall the Engineer system puts in place.
I thought the state of the game was much better pre-Engineering and despite having five thousand G5 rolls would not be upset in the slightest if they all just vanished.
I always felt Engineering, if it were to exist, should have been much more subtle in effect, and much more costly to insure/replace, than what we got. The CQC
Right now its useless weapon, unless mass stacked on something like anaconda with like ~4 heat-sinks
In small ship PvE its niche is killing single medium sized max master ranked ships at best, it's just useless outside those specific conditions. It's misconception that weapon in current state is better than it's kinetic alternatives, it's WORSE with some niche use, but ammo limits removes even those niche applications. 1200m/s shoot speed make it worse than multi-cannons at ranges, and distributor draw and huge heat output make it bad alternative for cannons and frags on ships that cant run energy weapons like various shield tanking small ships: vulture, courier and V4 come to mind.Without changing ammo cap we have hobby weapon with no real application in any role. It's different situation from balancing useful stuff, we are not at this point yet. And if weapon get engineering in the future working on similar principles like rest, we get classic grind to win mechanic, want dominate PvP? overcharged or efficient shock cannons with 11 materials synthesis- here we go, only pack hounds synthesis would be worse then, changing ammo limit now may prevent this.
Viper 4 is a hull tank mate.
Just curious, why less than 1 hour? Not that it couldn’t be done in less than 3 minutes at a Materials Trader, or rather quickly at a decent geological site, but I simply do not understand why people are always in such a rush. It’s a game, you’re supposed to relax and enjoy playing, not speed through as fast as possible. Materials gathering may not be a thrill-a-minute Adrenalin rush, but it was never meant to be either.
Nah, it’s the repeated G1-G4 over and over and over.
Any in game evidence for this statement? Because i found this:
Cannon capable of firing almost as fast the trigger can be pulled, firing very accurate, fast moving energy projectiles that can do high damage if successive shots land. The weapon has a built in auto loading action that will slowly reload over time. If the clip empties completely, a longer full reload will be undertaken.
— In-Game Description
Do you have something better?
Morbid, how many shock cannons u have on your PvP ships and why its 0
I’m quite keen on the Shock Cannon myself, but have been in the too-little-ammo camp since it’s open beta debut. It still needs a 375% increase to be a viable weapon choice.
As for PvP, I couldn’t care for cash. I find PvP boring and tedious, and just won’t do it. CQC is more than enough for me and that gets old fast too.
With guardian boosters you would be surprised
V4 have 3rd base shield strength in ships of its class, only vulture and courier have better, and to me both in capabilities and price vulture is a medium ship. I was recently flying something like this V4. c3 prisms and c4 SCB would be better, but that's what i had in storage.
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With guardian boosters you would be surprised
Yeah no.
GSRP are iite if you have one, otherwise when that shield goes, youre dead. At least in PvP. On top of that the Vulture has much better legs than the MKIV, and the iCourier blows both of them out the water. I would'nt run those in PvP except for one C5 in the Vulture, otherwise you're confining yourself to death.
I m happy to take this ship against full gimbals courier, for wing fights anything that have half or more shields in SCB is at best unreliable, that's why its so hard to break FDL dominance. V4 is more of a meme ship really, should be decent in 1vs1 against other small ships, but focused in wing its dead, better with bi-weave tank, but IMO still too slow, fastest you can go is something like 516-18 maybe. this is more a pve build, armour is to defend vs spec ops phasing in CZ's. The reason i m trying to turn good hull tanks into shield tanks is that defence vs seekers is unreliable, it doesn't matter it's PvE or PvP, and hull resistance not get anything from sys pips
Thats why I run a silent runner. Emmisive is seldom seen in high tier PvP therefore your survivability is higher. It's slow sure, but with 3600 hull it doesnt really matter all that much.
Seekers are generally not much of a threat if you can be sufficiently accurate and are half cop at positioning.
As for Pips thats inda the point of not running a shield on it, can freely manuver whenever required and the Vipers have awesome potential for sitting in blindspots, far more than most other ships, even the MKIV with it's lower top speed. Railguns are the biggest threat by far and thats true regardless of what build you have, they will mess you up the fastest of anything. Better to stay close and abuse the manuverability the ship posseses to keep the rail masters busy.
Seekers are generally not much of a threat if you can be sufficiently accurate and are half cop at positioning.
As for Pips thats inda the point of not running a shield on it, can freely manuver whenever required and the Vipers have awesome potential for sitting in blindspots, far more than most other ships, even the MKIV with it's lower top speed. Railguns are the biggest threat by far and thats true regardless of what build you have, they will mess you up the fastest of anything. Better to stay close and abuse the manuverability the ship posseses to keep the rail masters busy.
Platform please?
(I'm joking but still)
Also weapon balance should be done by it's effectiveness in PvP because that group is the one that feels the brunt of the balancing. Most PvE players only feel the sting when attacked. The PvPers feel that every day
I wonder if I should point out that this isn’t Battlefield 3304. As a Space Combat Simulation Elite is a pretty miserable failure. Space combat is kind of an afterthought from the development and implementation side of things, despite the small gathering of PvP players wishing, sometimes loudly, that this wasn’t so.
Elite’s roots and origins are those of a space trading game. I even recall an Official Post from not that long ago, talking about getting back to those roots.
Of course, we’ve a ways to go before we reach East Eridani Shipping Company levels of trade-based game play, and I’m not saying Combat doesn’t have A place in Elite - it most certainly does. It’s just not the principle feature.
I’m sure we’d lose 98% of the PvP base if Elite: Battle Royale we’re released, and 98% of the remaining players would wish them all the best, and even help them pack.
Elite’s roots and origins are those of a space trading game. I even recall an Official Post from not that long ago, talking about getting back to those roots.
Of course, we’ve a ways to go before we reach East Eridani Shipping Company levels of trade-based game play, and I’m not saying Combat doesn’t have A place in Elite - it most certainly does. It’s just not the principle feature.
I’m sure we’d lose 98% of the PvP base if Elite: Battle Royale we’re released, and 98% of the remaining players would wish them all the best, and even help them pack.
Right now its useless weapon, unless mass stacked on something like anaconda with like ~4 heat-sinks
I've used them with some success on several ships, and the larges work quite well to supplement a huge thermal vent beam on my Mamba.
Stacking them is counter productive, both from a heat and ammo perspective. They are most advantageous when used for short periods of high burst damage.
Among non-engineered weapons it's just about the best of both worlds between frag cannon and standard cannon.
If the current prototype is roughly equivalent to a G2-3 overcharged with autoloader, stripping those benefits then putting them into full production and allowing them to be Engineered would give them an appreciable niche, even in PvP, without making them dominant.
Not every weapon needs to be viable as the only weapon type on a ship.
ED is a far better space combat game than it is a space trade game.
It doesn't even have a working economic simulation.
Be that as it may, the fact remains that the game supports PvP. Erefore, that is the end which must be followed as far as balance goes.
Moreover how is this even slightly relevant to the matter at hand regarding a balance pass for a weapon, A part of the game specifically orientating around combat and it's application in said combat.
If you dont like PvP, thats fair enough, but if it is supported then it must be the ground used for combat balancing. Just because you don't like it that does'nt make the point any less valid.
You can kill NPC's with anything, it's largely irrelevant, but as I said before, PvPers are the ones who feel the brunt of combat balancing. Other than being on the recieving end of it, it's mostly abstract to PvE players.
In this context, if even they feel like the weapon is underpowered or has a lacking ammo pool there is something very wrong with the weapons current dynamic.
However if FDev have plans to put the weapon into full production and allow engineering on it, then it sits in a good position long term and will be fairly usable, if not quite good if they make the choice to alow them to be engineered. Though I must say if it was to happen, bespoke engineering modifications for each of the tech broker weapons would be very much preferable to the current system, allowing the weaponry to be balanced further and to have worthwhile upgrades without them becoming game breakingly powerful. Things such as the flechette launcher, enzyme missile and shock cannons could be really quite good overall with well thought out upgrades and experimentals.
This! I can imagine cry on forum and demand for nerf hammer if npc's get pack-hounds, even without any mods.
My posts are PvP-oriented simply because balancing weapons around PvP do a lot of good to PvE now or in the future if dev's decide to re-balance PvE combat in any way, we see improvements in CZ's, who knows what will be next. I would like to see shock cannons in hands of some npc's, we can see enzyme missiles used by spec opps asp/s in CZ sometimes, i would love to see shock cannons on some fdl's or vultures instead of boring and weak full laser loadouts.
The trouble with that is that it defeats the whole point of tech broker weapons. Tech broker weapons are basically there for those that don't want to spend the effort to engineer stuff but want some reasonable performance, offering middling performance but being able to buy them with credits rather than searching for mats to engineer each of them one-by-one.
If they could be engineered to provide performance greater than regular weapons, then it would just be further power creep.
If they could be engineered to provide the same performance, then they would be much more effort than simply normal engineered weapons due to the unlock requirements, disrupting the effort/performance balance.
However, I could see the merits in offering something like a "repeater cannon" as a regular weapon, that functionally is a downgraded shock cannon that offers performance similar to regular weapons. The shock cannon could then remain as the pre-production prototype model that offers high initial performance but requires the unlock and can't be improved further; while the repeater cannon would be available from the outset for newer players as well as offering the potential for top-end performance through engineer modding for those that are willing to unlock the engineers and track down the materials required for each one.
I just wish I didn't have to pull the trigger for every shot. My poor hotas and hands just can't do it fast enough to get their full potential. Would love to have a multicanon like version or something in between like a burst or similar. I personally hate button mashing in any game, this is button mashing at its worst.
I use those in my Mamba large HPs.
I don't PVP, but for PVE if you have a decent trigger discipline you can make roughly the same amount of money in a HAZres than with MCs or Cannons without synthetizing. Specially if you target PPs. I would love for them to have a bit more of damage OR a bit more of ammo though, nothing outrageous as doubling the ammo count, or making the synthetizing ammo cost more bearable.
I don't PVP, but for PVE if you have a decent trigger discipline you can make roughly the same amount of money in a HAZres than with MCs or Cannons without synthetizing. Specially if you target PPs. I would love for them to have a bit more of damage OR a bit more of ammo though, nothing outrageous as doubling the ammo count, or making the synthetizing ammo cost more bearable.