Commodities, materials and modules storage

[Calendra]

I know there are few posts about a storage for commodities and most of answers are against this, but i think its something need to be implemented as soon as possible. And that is because materials should also occupy cargo space (except encoded ones off course). (I made a new thread because my suggestion its not only about storage, its also about materials and modules.)

It's not realistic to have a game that try to reproduce reality with most features (like mass of a module could influence ship behavior, jump range etc) but have materials like iron, nickel etc to be stored in "cloud" with zero weight.

My suggestions are these:

• introduction of storage on stations with limited room (200-300T should be enough) - one storage per account
• materials should also occupy cargo space, but not on 1:1 ratio
• modules can be moved in cargo bay and transported that way (1T each or more for ones with no mass like scanners etc)
• you can change the storage station only if you clear everything inside (or get a timer to move the cargo if you buy another storage somewhere else)
• you can upgrade modules on engineer from your cargo ship
• engineered modules can be bound to account to prevent people to "trade" them, so there is no way to equip an engineered module.
• SRV cargo can be upgraded to 3T so 1T can be used to scoop/keep mats and 2 for taking cargo from planets

Pro's:

• it will give possibility to gather materials/commodities for engineering but swap to another activity any time, no need to run around with a ship full of commodities
• it will remove frustration of changing ships with different cargo size
• it will remove frustration of moving to an engineer with every ship you need to improve
• it's more realistic to have physical materials with weight and take care of storage than having them in "cloud" and use them everyhwere.

Con's:

• can upset veterans who are used to synth limpets/munition/whatever with zero cargo costs
• need some planning to keep on ship cargo only materials needed, no more running around with all materials

Material types

28 raw mats type = 6300 mats
64 manufactured type = 12850 mats
92 total types = 19150 mats

If each mat its 5kg then cargo space for all mats can fit in 96T (95.75T) A storage of 200-300 T can be enough to have all materials stored and some room for cargo to swap/deposit if needed.

 

[davinator791]

I just wish there weren't so many damn materials (119?) and grades to grind for each of the modules, feels like farming simulator shooting rocks, scavenging USS and scanning wakes all day... Plus commodities which you need to do missions and then carry around to unlock some nice weapon or technology...

 

[Speedcuffs]

No chance.

 

[Berpol]

I always assume I put them into a central storage and not carry all of that around.
And I ignore that iron and other such simple stuff are part of the materials.

t doesn't make sense but it is a game after all. And it involves a lot of grinding in each part.

 

[Icybow73]

Pro: more realsitic

Con: it would get everyone mad, some of the reasons you stated don't make sense, combat builds won't be able to grab mats, long range explorers would get slightly less range, etc

 

[Calendra]

Con: it would get everyone mad, some of the reasons you stated don't make sense, combat builds won't be able to grab mats, long range explorers would get slightly less range, etc

Combat or explorer builds will have to adapt and make room for some cargo room like it should be. Off course some people will get mad because it will be harder, but the point its not to make things easier, the point its to make things more realistic.
The game its tagged as Simulation, so things like materials in cloud don't belong here.

 

[Icybow73]

Combat or explorer builds will have to adapt and make room for some cargo room like it should be. Off course some people will get mad because it will be harder, but the point its not to make things easier, the point its to make things more realistic.
The game its tagged as Simulation, so things like materials in cloud don't belong here.

If this game is a simulation, then why do geological sites and barnacles respawn

 

[Calendra]

If this game is a simulation, then why do geological sites and barnacles respawn

You can ask devs about it, but i guess it's because it is a game and somehow a mmo (if you choose open play).

 

[lenna]

@Calendra: Sorry but I have to say no way and no how on ALL counts where your suggestion is concerned. I get where you are coming from but I disagree your suggestion is either warranted or appropriate.

The materials themselves serve two purposes: synthesis and engineering. The former of these has substantial value to explorers and is fundamentally why the materials storage mechanic needs to remain as-is.

You also do not under any circumstance need to run around with "commodities" unless you are engaging in trading/mining/missions.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

In any other galaxy you could go mining opals, sell them and use the credits to buy mats. That's how economy works. The material traders live in the pre-stone age. There is a reason why we discovered that having some sort of value storage was clever. The economics in ED is perhaps where the game lacks most, but it's still excellent escapism

 

[Factabulous]

In any other galaxy you could go mining opals, sell them and use the credits to buy mats. That's how economy works. The material traders live in the pre-stone age. There is a reason why we discovered that having some sort of value storage was clever. The economics in ED is perhaps where the game lacks most, but it's still excellent escapism

In any other galaxy CR would not be used any more due to devaluation caused by said Void Opals, and the replacement currency would be based upon materials

 

[WeComeInPeace]

In any other galaxy CR would not be used any more due to devaluation caused by said Void Opals, and the replacement currency would be based upon materials

Or it would be some sort of imagined value storage that everyone trusted blindly, probably in the form of bits. The thing about a material value storage is that it has mass, making it difficult to move around. Still having, say, gold as a value storage in ED and more of a supply/demand model would make the game more realistic.

 

[lenna]

Pro's:

• it will give possibility to gather materials/commodities for engineering but swap to another activity any time, no need to run around with a ship full of commodities

False - already doable, commodities are not required for engineering - there were some recipes that required commodities in the early days of engineering but the requirement was factored out during the re-working/re-balancing of engineering.

• it will remove frustration of changing ships with different cargo size

No real issues with that currently, just complete missions/trades first.

• it will remove frustration of moving to an engineer with every ship you need to improve

No real need to do this - just pin your preferred recipes (one per engineer) and other than applying special effects you can do most of the engineering remotely. Further more, you can store and transfer pre-engineered modules.

 

[Calendra]

False - already doable, commodities are not required for engineering - there were some recipes that required commodities in the early days of engineering but the requirement was factored out during the re-working/re-balancing of engineering.

To unlock some engineers you need to provide different things, like Selene Jean who wants 10 Painite, you could have those stored earlier when you mine and go there later. Bill Turner wants 50 units of Bromellite etc. Isn't easier to have those stored and give them when you want to unlock the engineer?
And its even more fun to unlock blueprints from technology broker....

No real issues with that currently, just complete missions/trades first.

Changing mining ship with explorer so i can have increase jump range was so fun last time i did it.

No real need to do this - just pin your preferred recipes (one per engineer) and other than applying special effects you can do most of the engineering remotely. Further more, you can store and transfer pre-engineered modules.

"and other than applying special effects" - exactly my point, so you have to go to engineer after all with a new ship, or with old one if you didn't had all materials with you.

I never said its impossible to play the game like it is now, i see room for improvement and i post the things i would like to see changed in game. If devs read this and think its a good idea its fine.

 

[lenna]

To unlock some engineers you need to provide different things, like Selene Jean who wants 10 Painite, you could have those stored earlier when you mine and go there later. Bill Turner wants 50 units of Bromellite etc. Isn't easier to have those stored and give them when you want to unlock the engineer?
And its even more fun to unlock blueprints from technology broker....

I honestly do not see your complaint as being anything even close to being valid. Been there, done that - Unlocked all bar a couple of the engineers and while it may take some time (and/or a number of trips) to gather what is being asked for the process is only a one-off and anything but unreasonable given the benefits.

Changing mining ship with explorer so i can have increase jump range was so fun last time i did it.

Your point being? You just have to offload your cargo first, what is so wrong with that?

"and other than applying special effects" - exactly my point, so you have to go to engineer after all with a new ship, or with old one if you didn't had all materials with you.

False - as I have pointed out you can store both engineered and non-engineered modules and transfer them - and the special effects are NOT required.

It is increasingly sounding like you are asking for an easy button in one breath and imposing an unreasonable barrier to gameplay in another.

Overall, nope - this idea needs to be thrown into Sag-A* and forgotten about.

 

[Calendra]

I honestly do not see your complaint as being anything even close to being valid. Been there, done that - Unlocked all bar a couple of the engineers and while it may take some time (and/or a number of trips) to gather what is being asked for the process is only a one-off and anything but unreasonable given the benefits.

Just because you did it already doesn't mean its fine. Its complicated with no specific reason, its doesn't make gameplay more fun as it is now, it only frustrate people because its illogical to not have a storage in a game where you have any sort of trading, needing to deliver materials, commodities etc.
Do you have a real argument why storage should not exist? Other than "i don't like it"?

Your point being? You just have to offload your cargo first, what is so wrong with that?

I had less cargo on my explorer ship than on my mining ship. Did you got it now? On my explorer i had 4t and my mining guess what, i had more. But this is just an example, there are lots of cases where you could speed up things if you can change a ship, or just stop doing what you did (like mining) and go with a friend for a quest etc.

False - as I have pointed out you can store both engineered and non-engineered modules and transfer them - and the special effects are NOT required.

It is increasingly sounding like you are asking for an easy button in one breath and imposing an unreasonable barrier to gameplay in another.

Overall, nope - this idea needs to be thrown into Sag-A* and forgotten about.

Special effects are required because i want them. And for that guess what? I have to go to the engineer with my ship. The engineers will only apply the effects on a installed module, how can it help me transferring a module of rank 6 close to engineer when my current ship have rank 5 and can't install it to improve?

Its funny how you try to justify the frustration of unlocking blueprints or engineering upgrades, and at same time you are against adding weight to materials because it can ruin your builds and capacity to synth anything everywhere with no effort or planning.

 

[lenna]

Just because you did it already doesn't mean its fine. Its complicated with no specific reason, its doesn't make gameplay more fun as it is now, it only frustrate people because its illogical to not have a storage in a game where you have any sort of trading, needing to deliver materials, commodities etc.
Do you have a real argument why storage should not exist? Other than "i don't like it"?

I have given the reasons for why material storage should not be conflated with commodities. Also, there are fundamental balancing issues regarding allowing "commodities" to be stored which have been covered to a death in other related discussions.

I had less cargo on my explorer ship than on my mining ship. Did you got it now? On my explorer i had 4t and my mining guess what, i had more. But this is just an example, there are lots of cases where you could speed up things if you can change a ship, or just stop doing what you did (like mining) and go with a friend for a quest etc.

Don't you think everyone else has encountered similar issues? They just sell their cargo load and then swap ships - it is not rocket science.

Special effects are required because i want them. And for that guess what? I have to go to the engineer with my ship. The engineers will only apply the effects on a installed module, how can it help me transferring a module of rank 6 close to engineer when my current ship have rank 5 and can't install it to improve?

Ultimately, while you may want the special effects FD have obviously limited their accessibility to only the engineers themselves seemingly for balancing reasons. My point about module storage was that you were drawing hyperbole.

Ultimately, your entire argument is flawed. It is not just about my personal builds but the gameplay of numerous other players too. What you are proposing is tantamount to a complete and unjustifiable redesign of the game as a whole.

 

[Calendra]

...... nothing ......

I don't know why i bother to answer, you don't have any argument why storage, moving modules with ship and materials to have weight are not viable in a game agged as simulation. Some things will make game a little harder, some will make it easier. You don't like it just because. Its same thing in all games, veterans don't want changes, if those changes can ruin their builds and can make things a little harder for them. Also, they don't like changes that could make some things easier for new players. An you are one of those.

 

[lenna]

...rubbish...

Your alleged Pros are on the most part based on false assumptions seemingly due to your lack of understanding of the way things work in ED - on the most part the alleged "Pros" are fallacious.

Engineering and materials were a relatively late addition to ED and whilst maybe a bit gamey in feel they are what they are and to change the cargo mechanics to match your own impression of the way you think things should work would essentially require a significant rewrite and rebalance of core parts of ED. You are not talking about small changes but a major rework.

As for the switching of ships, if you have cargo then you are meant to sell it first if it can not be transferred (it is part of the game). The same would be undoubtedly true if mission passengers were on board. This may have been an on-and-off complained about thing but it is easily adaptable to and side-steps certain concerns regarding hoarding of commodities and the net effect on the in-game economy.

As for Engineers and unlocking them, the process is not arduous as it currently stands and the main restricting factor in this area is that some of the Engineers require rare commodities to be delivered to them which are restricted in the amount you can carry/purchase for trade balancing reasons.

On-balance, nothing in your proposal would actually make things easier for newer players - they would just change the fundamental feel of areas of the gameplay you seemingly object to.

 

[lenna]

Materials are already fine.
I'd like a temporary storage solution for commodities, though. Like, you can change your storage capacity, but any excess is randomly discarded once you launch.
Anything persistent would probably introduce some imbalance.

That would be a fair compromise - rather than being completely discarded though, how about them being automatically sold at say 50% of their minimum market value and the proceeds passed on to the player.

Either way, there should be a warning to the player that this will happen possibly at point of requesting launch, and possibly require affirmative confirmation of the discard/auto-sell.