[Video] Open letter from community to Elite Dangerous

It's a video game. Do some research and buy the ones you'll like (that's the entire modes argument sorted out), if you burn out after 3000+ hours move on to something else or take a break for a bit. You can always reinstall, or not.

What a condescending way to tell me I'm not allowed a negative opinion on a facet of a game I like. Thank you for that.

Trying to force the devs to comply is the wrong approach and actively reduces dev communication which seems to be one of the issues bothering people.

I used to have monthly voice chats with Will and sometimes Brett (I miss him!) and others sometimes, but this has dried up completely. Even when it was happening I knew that I was in a very privileged position and that most players don't have that kind of access. Frontier's communication is already poor and so I see nothing to lose in asking for better engagement. As far as forcing the devs to do anything, actually I agree. I don't like that some of the signatories are alluding to further action even if (as I suspect) it would be pointless. But I massively sympathise with their frustration at being constantly ignored. It was almost exactly a year ago that I raised Frontier's poor communication with Will and he was very defensive and I have seen nothing change except for the worse.
 
The petition is up to 2624 and its been 36 hours or so since the last comment from FDev.

Im no expert on such things but I dont think they're taking it serious.

They commented on the letter. What more should they say?

The discussions we have been having for the last 50 pages or so don't need any commenting on.
 
What a condescending way to tell me I'm not allowed a negative opinion on a facet of a game I like. Thank you for that.

Its absolutely on point, video games are optional entertainment if it stops being fun you should stop doing it. Any other approach is doing it wrong. There's no such thing as the one game to rule them all variety is the spice of life and all that.

I used to have monthly voice chats with Will and sometimes Brett (I miss him!) and others sometimes, but this has dried up completely. Even when it was happening I knew that I was in a very privileged position and that most players don't have that kind of access. Frontier's communication is already poor and so I see nothing to lose in asking for better engagement. As far as forcing the devs to do anything, actually I agree. I don't like that some of the signatories are alluding to further action even if (as I suspect) it would be pointless. But I massively sympathise with their frustration at being constantly ignored. It was almost exactly a year ago that I raised Frontier's poor communication with Will and he was very defensive and I have seen nothing change except for the worse.

The reason they were willing to talk to you is that you are capable of communication. However there's a tiny subset of gamers who (unlike you) are actively driving devs away from communicating with players.

Have a look at this, its more extreme than anything we see here (thanks to the forums policies and the mods) but it explains a lot :

 
What a condescending way to tell me I'm not allowed a negative opinion on a facet of a game I like. Thank you for that.



I used to have monthly voice chats with Will and sometimes Brett (I miss him!) and others sometimes, but this has dried up completely. Even when it was happening I knew that I was in a very privileged position and that most players don't have that kind of access. Frontier's communication is already poor and so I see nothing to lose in asking for better engagement. As far as forcing the devs to do anything, actually I agree. I don't like that some of the signatories are alluding to further action even if (as I suspect) it would be pointless. But I massively sympathise with their frustration at being constantly ignored. It was almost exactly a year ago that I raised Frontier's poor communication with Will and he was very defensive and I have seen nothing change except for the worse.

Oh, i'm curious, based on what did you get that access? Are you the spokesperson for a large group or something?

I used to speak to Brett daily as well. Usually just to tell him it was all TJ's fault. :p
 
Trying to force the devs to comply is the wrong approach and actively reduces dev communication which seems to be one of the issues bothering people.

That’s a double edged sword though, another way to look at the same question is asking / requesting / checking the developer to get their house in order to be worthy of attention in the first place.

It’s more people want to still be interested but it’s not working out.

I guess you’re right it’s time to break up at that point.

Its just a marketing screwup in the end. They spend all this time and money promoting and attracting momentum around their game, it actually works, yet when it lands in their lap they realise they don’t want the attention and apply the heat of an iceberg (which somehow involves communicating to humans in lawyer speak). A frontier classic.
 
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Its absolutely on point, video games are optional entertainment if it stops being fun you should stop doing it. Any other approach is doing it wrong. There's no such thing as the one game to rule them all variety is the spice of life and all that.



The reason they were willing to talk to you is that you are capable of communication. However there's a tiny subset of gamers who (unlike you) are actively driving devs away from communicating with players.

Have a look at this, its more extreme than anything we see here (thanks to the forums policies and the mods) but it explains a lot :

I'm glad we don't see crap like that posted here. It's one thing criticising a game product, but when you attack/abuse online an individual of that software house that's something else.
I don't think that most people have grasped the idea that these days, especially in the UK, you've got to be very careful, what you post online....once it's out there, it's too late to defend when the Police come a knocking.
 
But it doesn't show how many people disagree with it ;)

"We've got 1000 signatures! What? Oh, those 2000 people over there? They don't count, they probably don't want improvements to the game anyway, so they are dismissed"

Then start your own petition, let your voice be heard. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

FWIW I didn't sign the petition, since I didn't agree with it's tone and some of its points. However I do think that FD's communication could be improved and that there is an issue with long standing bug and balance issues within the game. If someone were to make a petition or poll to gauge interest in those issues I might sign, but I don't feel strongly enough to start one myself TBH.

Launching into hyperbole and insinuation just seems...trite or disingenuous IMO.

Maybe it's because I see some much of this in today's UK politics that it kinda annoys me more i guess.
 
I think the purpose of the letter was to reach out to Frontier in a constructive way rather than go straight on the attack with a boycott. They signers, from Harry Potter to Obsidian Ant, all just want to help. Think of this as a family intervention where they just want to talk. Your suggestion is more like locking a family member up until they give in. If the opponents to this petition are upset now imagine how they'd have reacted to a campaign to boycott....

Lol....this aint no family "bubba". This is the entertainment business. Plain and simple. They make games to make money. Anything else is gravy. I promise you that as long as the euros and benjamins are coming in, they aint losing one minute of sleep over these grievances. Im not saying thats wrong or right. Its just business. You dont like the service then stop paying for it. Otherwise they will just smile and give excuses and put out the same old product, bugs and all. This has played out many times before in companies too numerous to count. This is business.
 
I used to have monthly voice chats with Will and sometimes Brett (I miss him!) and others sometimes, but this has dried up completely. Even when it was happening I knew that I was in a very privileged position and that most players don't have that kind of access. Frontier's communication is already poor and so I see nothing to lose in asking for better engagement.
I think this is one of the big difficulties for "communication" and "engagement".

There's a few hundred thousand semi-regular players of the game, with communities in tens of countries, languages, timezones and cultures. A lot of those communities don't overlap very much at all and may not even be aware of each other - witness the disbelief from a lot of english-language communities when EG Pilots won the Dangerous Games, because they just weren't aware how many Russians played Elite Dangerous (and indeed the long-standing fandom there going back to the original Elite)

Without knowing the exact terms of contract, but assuming a 260-day working year and an 8-hour working day, this gives us each a "fair share" of about 30 seconds of community staff attention per staff member per year. (Which is not just for talking to us, but also processing that, turning it into a form that the rest of the company can use as input, etc.).

So Frontier have a dilemma - try to spread that attention as much as possible across the entire player base, which leads to a very impersonal communications strategy and complaints such as this one, and even relatively large player-created events including hundreds of players being basically ignored by Frontier - or provide more focused attention to selected "community leaders" and "content creators", which as seen on this thread and elsewhere leads to accusations of favouritism and complaints that "these people don't represent me"


I think it's fair to say that Frontier have - partly as an inevitability from the community growing substantially between the 1.0 release and today, and partly as a deliberate choice - moved towards the impersonal/dispersed approach rather than the personal/representative approach.
 
I'm glad we don't see crap like that posted here. It's one thing criticising a game product, but when you attack/abuse online an individual of that software house that's something else.
I don't think that most people have grasped the idea that these days, especially in the UK, you've got to be very careful, what you post online....once it's out there, it's too late to defend when the Police come a knocking.

It does appear here sometimes I've seen some proper humdingers, the mods nuke it from orbit so fast it's usually gone before you can even report it.
 
I think it's fair to say that Frontier have - partly as an inevitability from the community growing substantially between the 1.0 release and today, and partly as a deliberate choice - moved towards the impersonal/dispersed approach rather than the personal/representative approach.
I'm not even sure that is true - I've got things fixed in the game by contacting CM people on Discord / Twitter - as long as you have a specific problem then they are actually very easy to contact, and often get things sorted. But what some (including the OP on this thread) want is an ongoing open ended chat about 'stuff', and 'the future'. And few companies have time for that.
 
Its absolutely on point, video games are optional entertainment if it stops being fun you should stop doing it. Any other approach is doing it wrong. There's no such thing as the one game to rule them all variety is the spice of life and all that.

I will not be told by you or anyone else how to feel or think about gaming, thank you. I respectfully ask you to cease trying.


The reason they were willing to talk to you is that you are capable of communication. However there's a tiny subset of gamers who (unlike you) are actively driving devs away from communicating with players.

Have a look at this, its more extreme than anything we see here (thanks to the forums policies and the mods) but it explains a lot :


I think we can all agree that that sort of behaviour is awful and has no place in society let alone gaming. But I don't understand the relevence to this letter? Have any of the signatories made any comments like this?
 
I'm not even sure that is true - I've got things fixed in the game by contacting CM people on Discord / Twitter - as long as you have a specific problem then they are actually very easy to contact, and often get things sorted. But what some (including the OP on this thread) want is an ongoing open ended chat about 'stuff', and 'the future'. And few companies have time for that.
Agreed. Once they open that Pandora box, it would imho slow development down considerably. Just look at the thousands of different ideas and ways people want to play this game. There is always an opposing view to each style and idea as well. You can't please everyone so might as well make the game THEY want to make. If someone doesnt like the product they can choose another game to play.
 
Have the Open Letterists decided when the 2020 release should be moved to (in order to accommodate all their changes)? More importantly have they announced how they're going to fund the delay for fdev? (Since, as Zac already stated, fdev need the 2020 DLC to make them some money, and it's not like fdev are choosing to add this extra work into their pipeline).
The question of funding hasn’t been addressed at all,every demand has a very real monetary cost,who gets to pay for it?
 
But I massively sympathise with their frustration at being constantly ignored. It was almost exactly a year ago that I raised Frontier's poor communication with Will and he was very defensive and I have seen nothing change except for the worse.
Well that's the problem, your perception.

Regarding bugs:

  • They created a known issues thread
  • They directly commented to almost every issue added in the September update
  • They created a thread to tell us what's going to be fixed in patch 1 and 2

I don't think communication regarding bugs could get much better. I would like to hear something about the older bugs though.


Regarding future updates:

  • They told us lots of details about the September update, including several threads, posts and live streams
  • They did a livestream for the December update, answered dozens of questions from the community and created a thread with details
  • The big 2020 update is still more than a year away

Again, communication can't get much better than that unless you are asking for the impossible.


Regarding long standing issues:

- They actually did answer to most of these issues, like Open Only BGS, FSS and PP. It's just that you don't like the answer. There is a difference between 'they don't communicate' and 'they do communicate but it's not the message I wanted to hear'. If they are saying the BGS will not become Open Only, that's the communication you are looking for. And there is not much point in asking again and again, just to claim that they aren't communicating about something they already did communicate.


Regarding this petition:

- Zac posted several lengthy, detailed replies in the middle of the night, just a few hours after the petition started. That's as good as communication gets.


Regarding stuff that is happening in game:

  • They told us about the changes in Galnet
  • They told us lots of details about Interstellar Initiatives
 
I used to have monthly voice chats with Will ...
OMG I wish I could have frequent voice chats with Will..💕

I'm so sorry, I do think this is serious and all, but I kinda burned up my rant in the summer (Stigbob must have been on holiday so got a bit disorderly)
 
The reason they were willing to talk to you is that you are capable of communication. However there's a tiny subset of gamers who (unlike you) are actively driving devs away from communicating with players.

Have a look at this, its more extreme than anything we see here (thanks to the forums policies and the mods) but it explains a lot :

The Open Letter on Reddit had actual death threats against the devs in the comments. Just saying.
 
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