The ADS

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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Burke said:
You were telling me how unpopular i was not so long ago. Is that the empathy you speak of?

My point is this. If you have any right to object at all to the ADS coming back, then the people who want the ADS back have the greater right. If anybody has any rights in this at all then those who want the ADS back have the moral high ground.
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I don't think I've mentioned you at all. I have no reference for you, besides the silly post you recently wrote where you said you were wronged. You may have me mixed up with someone else.

You have the same right to post. There is no 'high ground' on an issue like this. Because it is all just an inconsequential conversations about a video game.
 

marx

marx
Max Factor said:
There are no easy solutions that will please everyone that does not need a complete re-write of the FSS or a complete bypass of it.

FDev are not going to remove the FSS
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Why not? There is precedent of it happening. The FSS should not hold exploration back if Frontier would implement better mechanics for it. Hopefully, the New Era or after of Elite will also include a rethink of exploration from the ground up, because by today, Frontier are doing many things backwards with it.

For example, you can interact with some stuff other than just using your scanner on them, but doing so pays peanuts and is mostly pointless. You get the most rewards from the bodies you can least interact with. You fiddle with a minigame to identify bodies, half of which are just pretty (but very pretty!) marbles gameplay-wise, but you do a chore and then fly to the exact location of the possibly more interactive stuff. Which, again, isn't very rewarding, unless you are looking for specific materials. (Which is unrelated to exploration.) They tried to add gameplay and remove flight to lessen downtime, but ended up making the surface POI scan times far too long and clunky.
There's also that Elite is arguably at its best with a HOTAS and a VR headset, yet the FSS is actually the worst with these (and the best with a 2D screen and gamepad or KB/M).

A lot of the mechanics around exploration come from the fact that all the game had at the start was the generated galaxy, very little in the way of hand-crafted content, not enough time to implement deeper mechanics around exploration, and of course no landable planets at all. We'll see if Frontier will continue with this legacy around and after the next expansion, and just try to put band-aids on it, or if they'll take the time to rethink the fundamentals of exploration.
And I haven't even mentioned the most common complaint with it: the monotony of interstellar travel, or in short, JJJJJJJJ.

Honestly, what irks me about the FSS/ADS debates is that Frontier could and should do better than either of those.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Burke said:
No need to be defensive. I didnt accuse you of anything...

Just saying that perhaps people should be less interested in stopping others having fun is all.
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I am not stopping anyone. It's got nothing to do with me. I have no interest in stopping people from having fun and I don't stop people from having fun as long as its not illegal.
 

Scytale

Banned
S
marx said:
And I haven't even mentioned the most common complaint with it: the monotony of interstellar travel, or in short, JJJJJJJJ.
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Or the heresy of having an already charted MW before even starting to explore it. (Fog of war, please !)
 
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-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
marx said:
Why not? There is precedent of it happening. The FSS should not hold exploration back if Frontier would implement better mechanics for it. Hopefully, the New Era or after of Elite will also include a rethink of exploration from the ground up, because by today, Frontier are doing many things backwards with it.
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I have nothing against expansion of the FSS. I already said that.

marx said:
For example, you can interact with some stuff other than just using your scanner on them, but doing so pays peanuts and is mostly pointless. You get the most rewards from the bodies you can least interact with. You fiddle with a minigame to identify bodies, half of which are just pretty (but very pretty!) marbles gameplay-wise, but you do a chore and then fly to the exact location of the possibly more interactive stuff. Which, again, isn't very rewarding, unless you are looking for specific materials. (Which is unrelated to exploration.) They tried to add gameplay and remove flight to lessen downtime, but ended up making the surface POI scan times far too long and clunky.
There's also that Elite is arguably at its best with a HOTAS and a VR headset, yet the FSS is actually the worst with these (and the best with a 2D screen and gamepad or KB/M).
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The FSS is fine in VR and my hotas works brilliantly with it. They have not removed flight, that is a fallacy.

marx said:
A lot of the mechanics around exploration come from the fact that all the game had at the start was the generated galaxy, very little in the way of hand-crafted content, not enough time to implement deeper mechanics around exploration, and of course no landable planets at all. We'll see if Frontier will continue with this legacy around and after the next expansion, and just try to put band-aids on it, or if they'll take the time to rethink the fundamentals of exploration.
And I haven't even mentioned the most common complaint with it: the monotony of interstellar travel, or in short, JJJJJJJJ.
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I am very hopefull that they will start to add more things to find with different interactions, atmospheric planets will hopefully become a thing and also space legs can also add a lot to the exploration experience if they include areas that your ship and SRV can't get in to.

marx said:
Honestly, what irks me about the FSS/ADS debates is that Frontier could and should do better than either of those.
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Agreed. The FSS is not the best mechanic I have seen, but its far from the worst. I would have liked something completely different, but it's what we have and find it far more engaging and interesting then what we had before.
 

[PS4] Filthymick420

[PS4] Filthymick420
Ratkatcher said:
Which part of "No" is hard to understand :)

I do feel for the folk who preferred the ADS and refuse to 'get on' with the FSS/DSS for 'reasons' - I don't care about either, they were/are tools to do a specific task, but the ADS was removed, the Developers stated unequivocally it isn't coming back, why bother 'discussing' the loss every few weeks, it seems odd to continue doing so? It feels a bit like me insisting I want to be 30 again... just not going to happen :)
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Yea but there are products for us to actually look younger. I propose we talk about de-aging properties. It's more realistic of a probability
 

Scytale

Banned
S
Could be some sort of virtual crew member in charge of that chore. Naah...Poor boy... What about an Imperial Slave ? I want to buy an Imperial Slave to man the silly FSS !
mdfXNEu.jpg
 
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Scytale

Banned
S
Yeah ! The Captain is not supposed to do chores. Just..
146810
Just as we can hire fighter pilots, we should be able to hire crew technicians to free us from tedious tasks !
* Standing up from the pilot chair and going to clean the ship WC... *
 
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lenna

lenna
Agony_Aunt said:
People complaied for years that exploration was just honk and jump. They said FD should add gameplay to discovery. Some hardcore players wanted discover only via parallax!

FD listened and gave what they thought people wanted, not just honk and jump but actual scanning mechanism to discover stuff.

In short, be careful what you ask FD for, you might just get it.
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The only people claiming it was just honk and jump was the anti-honk crowd who arguably did not actually know what they were talking about.

[EDIT]If you exclude the anti-honkers, the vast majority were actually pushing for better and more detailed surface scanning - e.g. geological and seismic scans. What we got was a simplistic mini-game which did not actually meet the criteria and had a mini-game added as a barrier to gameplay to appease the anti-honk whiners.[/EDIT]
 
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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
rlsg said:
The only people claiming it was just honk and jump was the anti-honk crowd who arguably did not actually know what they were talking about.

[EDIT]If you exclude the anti-honkers, the vast majority were actually pushing for better and more detailed surface scanning - e.g. geological and seismic scans. What we got was a simplistic mini-game which did not actually meet the criteria and had a mini-game added as a barrier to gameplay to appease the anti-honk whiners.[/EDIT]
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Revisionist history. The exact complaint was the placeholder nature of the ADS, and the need for game play introduced to exploration. This did come along with calls for exotic phenomenon to observe, but in the over all the call was to fill out exploration. That was done.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
rlsg said:
The only people claiming it was just honk and jump was the anti-honk crowd who arguably did not actually know what they were talking about.

[EDIT]If you exclude the anti-honkers, the vast majority were actually pushing for better and more detailed surface scanning - e.g. geological and seismic scans. What we got was a simplistic mini-game which did not actually meet the criteria and had a mini-game added as a barrier to gameplay to appease the anti-honk whiners.[/EDIT]
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I love this. How can a mini-game which is gameplay be a barrier to gameplay.

And I love how you dump over a load of people but know nothing about them or what they want.

It's arrogant posts like this that make me want to stop wanting a compromise.
 
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lenna

lenna
Mohrgan said:
Revisionist history. The exact complaint was the placeholder nature of the ADS, and the need for game play introduced to exploration. This did come along with calls for exotic phenomenon to observe, but in the over all the call was to fill out exploration. That was done.
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False in essence, not revisionist history - the only thing that was done was a temporary silencing of the anti-honk-whiners (AHWs for short) which now have become ostriches claiming everything is good, nothing needs to be changed, and what was delivered was what was asked for - the AHWs are totally wrong in making such claims.

There have been plenty of good constructive suggestions that could have deepened gameplay without removing the ADS but instead FD just listened to the AHWs and delivered mini-game hell on the rest of us.
 

Ezren

Ezren
rlsg said:
The only people claiming it was just honk and jump was the anti-honk crowd who arguably did not actually know what they were talking about.

[EDIT]If you exclude the anti-honkers, the vast majority were actually pushing for better and more detailed surface scanning - e.g. geological and seismic scans. What we got was a simplistic mini-game which did not actually meet the criteria and had a mini-game added as a barrier to gameplay to appease the anti-honk whiners.[/EDIT]
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I always enjoy posts that are based around the idea that everyone who disagrees just doesn't know what they are talking about, full stop.

I don't know what the issue with the FSS is, but I'm starting to not care. I like the FSS, it's faster than sticking my face in a bunch of planets, and it takes a little bit of know-how to efficiently use. Some minor QOL quibbles aside, I haven't seen a very compelling argument for another system.
 
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