The ADS

[Bryan K]

Not a mini-game. Not a "shoot the planet". Who are these The Explorers Community, and "we" in this case? Why is that the only alternative you can think of?

I wish people would stop these weird generalisations and oversimplifications. They are just polarising the discussions without bringing anything constructive the table.

S

If this thread is anything to go by, there really isn’t much support for bringing back the ADS. Just the immature hangers-on who couldn’t grow up and accept FDev’s decision, or move on.

All they can manage to do at this point is coerce people to repeat themselves to drive up reply numbers, not realizing that the devs probably deposited this thread in their rubbish pile after the first 30 pages.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

What went wrong? Only new mini-games are with the DSS and the new mining tools. Why is the analysis mode unnecessary (rather than under-developed)? What exactly is botched about the Codex except for a few bugs and again a degree of under-development?

Less generalisations, please.

S

*Fewer generalizations

You accept that there are minigames, so I don't need to go into that.

Analysis mode performs no function outside of mining. It has no relevance to the FSS or DSS 'gameplay' since they take place outside of the HUD environment. If it had been 'Mining mode' it would have been better, but it still prevents players from configuring their firegroups to suit the activity they're performing. Consequently, it's useless.

I think the fundamental bugs in the Codex - not registering scanned objects and not displaying personal discoveries in any but the current sector - would classify it as 'botched'.
However, in addition to that, the fact that it was designed as a Pokedex of things that FDev thought were interesting, rather than a personal record of a player's discoveries means that it doesn't mett the expectations of a large proportion of the exploration community. I'd much rather know which systems I found an ELW in, rather than which system someone else found one in first.

 

[Sysmon]

You seem confused.
What exactly is 'complicated' about people enjoying playing a game?

Nice strawman. No, actually we are in gas-lighting territory. Surely I must be bad because I think people can't enjoy playing the game. How do you argue against that?

S

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Count yourself lucky then, as they could have had something like the FSS from the beginning.

I do count myself lucky. I got 5 years of enjoyment out of the game which I wouldn't otherwise have done.

 

[Scytale]

Aha! That's what you are doing wrong. Trying to scan a planet with pulse lasers will not give you anything back. You could ask FDEV for a SIMS type instrument where the backscatter from your lasers gives you readings about what you are shooting. I think I suggested that back in 2013/2014.
So please learn the game you are trying to argue about, and we can have a constructive discussion.
S

What's the difference between that "probe" minigame and pew pew ? Can't see any...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Nice strawman. No, actually we are in gas-lighting territory. Surely I must be bad because I think people can't enjoy playing the game. How do you argue against that?

S

Now you're definitely confused.

I said enjoying a game for 5 years wasn't complicated.
You said it was.
I asked how.

The only strawman in this conversation was constructed by you.

 

[Sysmon]

*Fewer generalizations

You accept that there are minigames, so I don't need to go into that.

Analysis mode performs no function outside of mining. It has no relevance to the FSS or DSS 'gameplay' since they take place outside of the HUD environment. If it had been 'Mining mode' it would have been better, but it still prevents players from configuring their firegroups to suit the activity they're performing. Consequently, it's useless.

I think the fundamental bugs in the Codex - not registering scanned objects and not displaying personal discoveries in any but the current sector - would classify it as 'botched'.
However, in addition to that, the fact that it was designed as a Pokedex of things that FDev thought were interesting, rather than a personal record of a player's discoveries means that it doesn't mett the expectations of a large proportion of the exploration community. I'd much rather know which systems I found an ELW in, rather than which system someone else found one in first.

Analysis mode can certainly be better developed, although I've not personally had any issues with it and my fire groups. Just an extra button press from time to time.

I agree with the Pokedex nature of the Codex. That and the mini-games introduced with the DSS and the new mining tools frightened me a little. Hopefully FDEV have moved the people on to something else that came up with those ideas. I'm hoping for overhauls, and wonder if the people that came up with that also came up with Powerplay and Engineering.

S

 

[Bryan K]

What's the difference between that "probe" minigame and pew pew ? Can't see any...

Gravity, for a start.

 

[Sysmon]

What's the difference between that "probe" minigame and pew pew ? Can't see any...

Aha again! You don't like the DSS. That's OK, we are not discussing that anyway.

S

 

[Burke]

What's the difference between that "probe" minigame and pew pew ? Can't see any...

Shooting other ships can be quite entertaining.

 

[Sysmon]

Now you're definitely confused.

I said enjoying a game for 5 years wasn't complicated.
You said it was.
I asked how.

The only strawman in this conversation was constructed by you.

Yes, definitely gas-lighting. Well, mainly because it is not just about your enjoyment. Other people are playing as well. Also because the development history reaches far enough back that it should be possible to see what was suggested to be in development, what made to the live build originally, and what therefore is coming as natural further development. Try a bit of pragmatism, and see beyond your own nose.

S

 

[Scytale]

Gravity, for a start.

Aha again! You don't like the DSS. That's OK, we are not discussing that anyway.

Spoiler: pew pew

Spoiler: probe

 

[askavir]

5 years later we get a simplified version of some of the stuff discussed (and a sign that FDEV spend a lot of thought and time generating something

You surely jest... FD ran out of time (that's why the discussion forum was postponed and later cancelled) because they focused on everything else first, again, and then had to come up with something quickly... And the FSS was born, a clear minimum possible effort solution to a problem that didn't even exist.

If you comb through the numerous exploration improvements threads pre-dating chapter 4, nobody had ever suggested anything like this, all suggestions involved gameplay and content while exploring the system and planets, nobody ever suggested a minigame to park the ship and peek through a telescope.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Analysis mode can certainly be better developed, although I've not personally had any issues with it and my fire groups. Just an extra button press from time to time.

I agree with the Pokedex nature of the Codex. That and the mini-games introduced with the DSS and the new mining tools frightened me a little. Hopefully FDEV have moved the people on to something else that came up with those ideas. I'm hoping for overhauls, and wonder if the people that came up with that also came up with Powerplay and Engineering.

S

I'm amused by the way we're having two conversations in the same thread and simultaneously bickering and (semi-)agreeing with each other.

The real issue I have with Analysis mode is that they applied it to the SRV. Given that for biological and geological POIs the routine is invariably "scan it, the shoot bits off it" having to switch mode in the middle is just silly.

Powerplay was a good idea badly implemented and integrated.
Engineering was a good idea let down by grind and the roulette wheel.
Mining and the DSS seem like poor ideas to begin with - the DSS especially.

I look back on the effort put into the 'Unknown Artifacts' and the hidden clues and behavior they contained, and conpare that with the cookie-cutter POIs we have now and I can clearly see the trajectory that ED has taken, and I despair.

 

[Bryan K]

Spoiler: pew pew

Spoiler: probe

Guess you haven’t heard of impactor probes. They’ve been around for decades.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yes, definitely gas-lighting. Well, mainly because it is not just about your enjoyment. Other people are playing as well. Also because the development history reaches far enough back that it should be possible to see what was suggested to be in development, what made to the live build originally, and what therefore is coming as natural further development. Try a bit of pragmatism, and see beyond your own nose.

S

I can clearly see Ziggy, Askavir, WR3ND, Burke and Enderby's noses

But "See beyond your own nose" clearly also applies to those refusing to accept the return of the ADS because it spoils their headcanon.

 

[Thatchinho]

Something went badly wrong with the Beyond development, which is why we got the unnecessary Analysis Mode, the botched Codex and a bunch of minigames.

Whether Analysis Mode is unnecessary is TBD. While not particularly necessary now, that doesn’t mean it won’t be necessary in the future. FD may have decided that it was better to make the change to the two modes in 3.3 in preparation for future changes. It’s a perfectly valid approach.

Not sure the Codex can be classed as botched. Sure it doesn’t do what lots of people thought it would do, but then most of that was only ever in people’s heads anyway.

Mini-games... well... bit of a matter of perspective on that one.

Edit - have now seen the subsequent post talking about why the Codex is botched!

 

[Scytale]

FD, please, give me a pre-3 patch standalone, offline game. I don't need all these redundant new ships, that cartoon-ish overlighting, useless Codex and silly minigames.
Plisss ?

 

[Enderby]

Call it what you will, it still sucks.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Whether Analysis Mode is unnecessary is TBD. While not particularly necessary now, that doesn’t mean it won’t be necessary in the future. FD may have decided that it was better to make the change to the two modes in 3.3 in preparation for future changes. It’s a perfectly valid approach.

Not sure the Codex can be classed as botched. Sure it doesn’t do what lots of people thought it would do, but then most of that was only ever in people’s heads anyway.

Mini-games... well... bit of a matter of perspective on that one.

"Putting in half-baked features with the vague intention of updating them later" is Fdev's middle name, so you may be right.

See my other post for detailed criticism of the Codex.