The ADS

[MadDogMurdock]

Ok, it’s a brand new day so let’s summarize what we found out yesterday.

We established an answer to my question:

Q: How is the use of the FSS affected by the existence of the ADS?
A: It isn’t.

We exposed the core objections of those who don’t want the ADS back:

• Picommander - it would be an inconsistency
• Max Factor - it would offend my version of the lore

Since then IndigoWyrd has rejoined the discussion:

• The ADS was a despicable abomination

While we may or may not agree with these strongly held opinions, I do think it’s fair to say that they are very easy to overcome by those Cmdrs just not using the ADS and letting us do exploration our way.

So there we have it.
Putting back the ADS is no detriment to anyone.

What say you all?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think the key point there is they stated "no changes to the core of the FSS" which is vague and non-specific, it also would not run counter to the principle of adding an ADS (or something similar) as a supplemental tool (not a replacement for the FSS - no core changes would be required necessarily). What it ultimately highlights though is FD is out of touch with the community it is supposedly listening to and are ignoring the rights of those adversely affected by the removal of the ADS and the introduction of the FSS as a "mini-game barrier" to gameplay.

What community would that be and you also missed:
"Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now."

If FD as a collective honestly consider the FSS engaging gameplay then they do not really have a clue what "engaging gameplay" actually is IMO.

Even though many seem to find it engaging gameplay. Maybe you need to accept that what you would call engaging others will not and what other find engaging you may not.

But instead you feel it fine to insult the Devs instead.

Again another toxic inspiring post.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Ok, it’s a brand new day so let’s summarize what we found out yesterday.

We established an answer to my question:


We exposed the core objections of those who don’t want the ADS back:

• Picommander - it would be an inconsistency
• Max Factor - it would offend my version of the lore

Since then IndigoWyrd has rejoined the discussion:
* The ADS was a despicable abomination

While we may or may not agree with these strongly held opinions, I do think it’s fair to say that they are very easy to overcome by those Cmdrs just not using the ADS and letting us do exploration our way.

So there we have it.
Putting back the ADS is no detriment to anyone.

What say you all?

Another toxic post, with inaccuracies.

Seems to be a reoccurring issue.

 

[Scytale]

If FD as a collective honestly consider the FSS engaging gameplay then they do not really have a clue what "engaging gameplay" actually is IMO.

They just want to please the kiddos, giving them "all, now, at zero cost, and most rewarding !" Cash.
Cmdr Baton method or having to fly to tag a body, for an example, don't please the arcade kids.
FD just bows down to Zeitgeist and sells the soul of the ED, patch after patch.
They have lost all my respect and sympathy.
Exploration in Elite: Dangerous ? Pokémon Go !!!
What a shame !

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Another toxic post, with inaccuracies.

Seems to be a reoccurring issue.

So summarizing the discussion and current objections to the ADS is toxic now?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So summarizing the discussion and current objections to the ADS is toxic now?

You summarising is a load of rubbish and doesn't represent what people have said. That is what is toxic.

It's just an attempt to make people feeling/thoughts on the matter look irrelevant.

It's toxic and encourages arguments to start.

 

[lenna]

Sorry Riverside, missed this one. For those that haven't checked the link out, it is by Adam Bourke-Waite, Principal Designer ED, dated 18 June 2019 and says:

​

Hello Commanders,​

​

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.​

​

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.​

​

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.​

​

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.​

That doesn't sound like FD are going to backflip or are considering reinstating the ADS - quite the opposite in fact. Reads to me they are happy with the FSS, understand that they couldn't please everyone and won't be making changes. Pretty black and white if you ask me.

Yes and No, ultimately if that is FDs official position - "no changes to the FSS at all" - then they need to reconsider it as there are numerous flaws that have been highlighted and notionally require addressing. These have been pointed out numerous times both during the Beta and since.

I don't actually think anyone is asking the FSS itself to be changed substantially from it's current form - just supplemented.

1. HUD integration to allow navigation by blob in lieu of map - could be done by an optional add-on module that merely overlays the zoomed out FSS image in analysis mode if they do not want to change the baseline FSS. Tuning could still require entering FSS but adding a tuning option to one of the MFDs would probably be ideal.
   
   
2. Addition of a visual representation of the "learnable" audio component while in the FSS - not a change to the core of the FSS but arguably required for those with impaired hearing to be able to "learn" the FSS like they claim should be possible. The current FSS implementation is prejudicial against existing explorers who either have impaired hearing or have trouble running the ED with the audio turned on.
   
   
3. ADS-like mapping add-on module - probably will never happen but we can still hope for a reversal. Perhaps a petition to DB OBE would be required
   
   
4. Adding "memory" to the FSS tuning bar - should be a simple but highly desirable QOL change

There are other related changes such as removing (or allowing to be disabled) the Analysis/Combat mode "non functional module" message spam but we could go on and on about the flaws with what FD have delivered and the feedback they have seemingly ignored.

 

[Stigbob]

So summarizing the discussion and current objections to the ADS is toxic now?

How about an alternate summary :

"I cannot/will not adapt to change and intend to continue moaning indefinitely about the popular upgrade"

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

You summarising is a load of rubbish and doesn't represent what people have said. That is what is toxic.

It's just an attempt to make people feeling/thoughts on the matter look irrelevant.

It's toxic and encourages arguments to start.

Please don’t lie, what he summarised is exactly what is said over and over right before a snide “no you will never get it”.

Its the definition of irrational argument, that’s why people continue on.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Sorry Max, but you are the main offender in this thread.
Certainly in responses to my posts.

Your stock response yesterday was:
“Please stop, you’re hurting my feelings.”
Often with a casual ad hominem thrown in for good measure.

Today, any post you don’t like is toxic.

Your posts serve no purpose other than to stifle discussion of the arguments.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

How about an alternate summary :

"I cannot/will not adapt to change and intend to continue moaning indefinitely about the popular upgrade"

That is at least accurate.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Also please account the facts about the fss.. the only feedback they took from players and implemented into the game was the label location and how it notified..

oh they made it so when adaptive zoom was zoomed out of it recentered on where you were last at.. omg how dramatic.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…

I have no idea why you have to make assumptions and have a joke on me about your assumptions when they are completely wrong.

It's posts like these that turn thread like these into toxic cesspools.

Zadian, I thought you were better then that.

It was a light hearted comment with no intention to hurt any feelings. I understand that it might not come across the way it was intended - as a comment to lighten up the mood. So, sorry if it was offensive to you.

We share all the same passion about exploration. Otherwise these discussions wouldn't happen. I thought that a light hearted comment was OK in a "sitting around a table in a pub"-feeling situation. I forgot that on the internet a lot of non-verbal communication is lost and things sound a lot harsher than intended.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It was a light hearted comment with no intention to hurt any feelings. I understand that it might come across the way it was intended - as a comment to lighten up the mood. So, sorry if it was offensive to you.

We share all the same passion about exploration. Otherwise these discussions wouldn't happen. I thought that a light hearted comment was OK in a "sitting around a table in a pub"-feeling situation. I forgot that on the internet a lot of non-verbal communication is lost and things sound a lot harsher than intended.

No worries. I'm so used to toxicity in this thread I made a mistake. My apologies.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Sorry Max, but you are the main offender in this thread.
Certainly in responses to my posts.

Your stock response yesterday was:
“Please stop, you’re hurting my feelings.”
Often with a casual ad hominem thrown in for good measure.

Today, any post you don’t like is toxic.

Your posts serve no purpose other than to stifle discussion of the arguments.

Again, that is another inaccuracy. I was specifically talking about my feelings on the game, not my personal feelings whether I am hurt or not, and all you did is again attempt to belittle those by making them look irrelavent.

It's a continuous thing with you. It never stops. You have feelings about the FSS, they are dislike and you have your reasons. I have feelings on the ADS and I don't want it back in the game and I have my reasons.

All you have done is dismiss and belittle those feelings and reasons by making them something they are not.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

No worries. I'm so used to toxicity in this thread I made a mistake. My apologies.

The definition of toxicity in this thread is demanding that other people not be made whole with zero change requested for that persons experience.

 

[Enderby]

I just hope that FD improve these things soon.

 

[Stigbob]

I just hope that FD improve these things soon.

Can't improve on perfection.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The definition of toxicity in this thread is demanding that other people not be made whole with zero change requested for that persons experience.

I am happy for the experience to change as long as it doesn't make the game worse in my eyes.

I have already written up something in this thread and the other which would add functionality to the FSS so that, I think, everyone's exploration versions would be catered to and wouldn't make the games lore make no logical sense.

That is called a compromise.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Again, that is another inaccuracy. I was specifically talking about my feelings on the game, not my personal feelings whether I am hurt or not, and all you did is again attempt to belittle those by making them look irrelavent.

It's a continuous thing with you. It never stops. You have feelings about the FSS, they are dislike and you have your reasons. I have feelings on the ADS and I don't want it back in the game and I have my reasons.

All you have done is dismiss and belittle those feelings and reasons by making them something they are not.

I would like the FSS a lot more if I could choose when to use it.
Frankly, any detriment to your feelings is insignificant to the beneficial effects of making the ADS available again.

So yes, I absolutely am belittling your argument because it is trivial.
It will not stop.

The resolution of the issue is so obvious and of so little impact to anyone else that I will continue to make the case for it, regardless of whether it is futile or not.