Could or should Frontier enhance the FSS or add in and incorporate an optional ADS-like expansion module?

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
As well as salty, the 2 previous threads on this issue I’ve been around for have also been extremely scientific and specific.

I don’t mind admitting that some of the science has gone way over my head but has been extremely impressive, there are some amazing brains that play this game and visit this forum. I only say this because when I (finally) express my view/preference/suggestion, you need to understand that I know it's on the basis that if my science knowledge was chocolate, it couldn’t cover a Smartie.

Specific. This is also difficult because whilst there are some general gameplay styles there are also some more minority specific ones and they’re always in danger of an update ruining their experience. So I’m offering something of a non-knowledgable compromise.

The first thing is, as it is now, I land in a system, I ‘honk’ and it reveals the nearest (normally one, the main star) body. If it does reveal more, what I’ve discovered is, I still have to FSS the secondary body to understand if (if it’s landable for example) there are any POI’s on it. So in fact, for my use, all I’ve learned is it’s location by honking. Maybe I’ve also learned it’s type and composition.

It would seem fair to me that if I land in an undiscovered system, that I honk, reveal the main star, any other bodies within a range, as is now that would give me the discovered tag. But it could also reveal the other bodies in the system but I would not have earned the discovered tag for them them. If I want to do that at that point I have tchoices. Use the FSS to discover the rest or fly out to them as we did with the ADS. I really don’t see (understand more like) why this isn’t feasible. Forget the science for a minute, now I honk and it might reveal some but tell me not a lot about them, why not reveal all and tell me less about them? Then I have the choice to play the way I want.

Finally, I absolutely agree with the POI thing. Let me scan in FSS, take a few seconds to tell me if the body contains any POI’s and what types. Let me DSS it to know exactly how many sites it contains.

tl: dr

Honk reveals everything but you either have to fly out or FSS to get the discover tag. Based on my extreme lack of scientific knowledge.
 

Maolagin

M
XloubellXX said:
tl: dr

Honk reveals everything but you either have to fly out or FSS to get the discover tag. Based on my extreme lack of scientific knowledge.
Click to expand...
That is ... identical to bringing back the ADS alongside the new system? Exactly the one thing the developers said they would not consider?
 

Sylow

Sylow
It's unrealistic to expect that FD will undo the FSS again. Even anything to make it optional to use is very unlikely. As it would invalidate what they already did.

But there's plenty of aspects where the FSS could be improved upon. For me, it would still be:
  • Allow us to use it while moving.
  • To make this work better, give us the configrable option of a "snap to nearby object" function.
  • Potentially give us a "toggle to the next object" function.
  • Give us the radar while in FSS.
  • Give us options to reduce the "visual noise" of the FSS.

And that's just what is on my mind. Before even considering how terrible the FSS apparently looks in VR and how to improve on that. (ED is one of VRs biggest successes and VR is a strong advertisement for ED. It's a shame that they completely forgot about that when building the FSS. )
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Sylow said:
It's unrealistic to expect that FD will undo the FSS again. Even anything to make it optional to use is very unlikely. As it would invalidate what they already did.

But there's plenty of aspects where the FSS could be improved upon. For me, it would still be:
  • Allow us to use it while moving.
  • To make this work better, give us the configrable option of a "snap to nearby object" function.
  • Potentially give us a "toggle to the next object" function.
  • Give us the radar while in FSS.
  • Give us options to reduce the "visual noise" of the FSS.

And that's just what is on my mind. Before even considering how terrible the FSS apparently looks in VR and how to improve on that. (ED is one of VRs biggest successes and VR is a strong advertisement for ED. It's a shame that they completely forgot about that when building the FSS. )
Click to expand...
I like the FSS in VR apart from the lack of orbit lines and the bizarre white line around the sides of it.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
CMDR Karrde Sun said:
Not sure about others but that’s the main deal breaker for me. The system map if you used it is inaccurate enough and better still you could avoid it completely by just using the nav panel.

If you already know what it looks like, what’s the point of going out there? Imagine if you were an explorer in real life:
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Welllllll, you know what a naked woman looks like but if you see one getting her kit off you spend a bit more time looking in that direction, there are thousands of pictures of the latest Massarini Hypercar on the internet but if you see one in the carpark you you want to go look, we are driven by a desire to wan't more of what makes us happy.
 

Maro-Val

Maro-Val
First of all, we all have to find some common ground. I think we all, both lovers and haters of the FSS, can agree that Frontier wont make a single change to the FSS and we all know know it deep inside. So the FSS will always be like it is today more or less.
What can be done, is to bring back the allready made ADS module (no extra time for developing something new) and keeping all of its huge "negatives", compared to the FSS, and also add some more to it.

By bringing back the old ADS:
1. It will take an entire slot and have some extra weight, which is very serious for exploration loadouts, a huge negative, especially on small ships.
2. It will make someone travel all the way to a body to tag it, like the old days (yea some people like me, actually LIKE to travel all the way to bodies that THEY discovered, instead of just getting payed about it).
3. It will reveal the entire system map just by honking like before and give back a very very old functionality that was TAKEN AWAY, unlike no other in this game, but FSS lovers wont have their experience destroyed by this monstrosity, since they wont have the ADS fitted.
4. People would have to actually travel all the way to a body and probe it, in order to find out if there is a POI over there, a huge negative.
5. Installing one on ship, would disable the FSS, so it would be one or the other, no overlap, so simple and FSS haters will loose all the marvelous characteristics of the very "genius" FSS.
6. All these threads will stop. (Its a negative because i ll miss those threads)
 

Soron Silin

Soron Silin
Let's attack this from an in-game perspective.

Make the FSS a module (could get tricky for pilots already out in the black, but we'll hand-wave that.)
Now it can have classes. Let's give the A class 5 internal slots and the E class has 1.

The basic FSS cannot zoom. You can tune in a signal and target it, but that's all. It doesn't have the handy direction indicator either.

So then you need some internal modules for your slots.

  • The ability to zoom but not view a signal source. Now you can find all the individual planets but not identify them.
  • A telescope. Now you can view the planet and get full information on it. Can be used without zoom for individual signal sources.
  • POI scanner. No need to wait if you don't equip one.
  • Direction indicator as it is currently.
  • Wide angle add-on to the direction indicator -- indicates the direction of any signal currently correctly tuned within 180 degrees.
  • Auto track. Quickly pans the scanner to the nearest signal source that matches the current tuning. It requires direction indicator.
  • Auto zoom. Triggers zoom as soon as a signal source is under the cursor. Optionally zooms out as soon as scan is complete. It requires zoom.
  • Option to tag scanned planets with eight coloured flags that are shown on the system map. Now you can tag planets for mapping or further study.
Perhaps you are a tough old explorer. You can take an E class FSS with the direction indicator. That lets you target planets but you have to fly out to identify them.

Perhaps you want the whole system with no minigame. Equip an A class with direction, zoom, telescope, auto-track and auto-zoom and it will play itself but you don't get human/alien/bio POIs.

And for me, just let me have a wide angle direction indicator and give me back the hours I've wasted hunting down that last signal.
 
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Maolagin

M
Maro-Val said:
First of all, we all have to find some common ground. I think we all, both lovers and haters of the FSS, can agree that Frontier wont make a single change to the FSS and we all know know it deep inside. So the FSS will always be like it is today more or less.
What can be done, is to bring back the allready made ADS module (no extra time for developing something new) and keeping all of its huge "negatives", compared to the FSS, and also add some more to it.
Click to expand...
This is not a "bring back the ADS" thread. There are several of those already.
 

MadDogMurdock

MadDogMurdock
Maro-Val said:
First of all, we all have to find some common ground. I think we all, both lovers and haters of the FSS, can agree that Frontier wont make a single change to the FSS and we all know know it deep inside. So the FSS will always be like it is today more or less.
What can be done, is to bring back the allready made ADS module (no extra time for developing something new) and keeping all of its huge "negatives", compared to the FSS, and also add some more to it.

By bringing back the old ADS:
1. It will take an entire slot and have some extra weight, which is very serious for exploration loadouts, a huge negative, especially on small ships.
2. It will make someone travel all the way to a body to tag it, like the old days (yea some people like me, actually LIKE to travel all the way to bodies that THEY discovered, instead of just getting payed about it).
3. It will reveal the entire system map just by honking like before and give back a very very old functionality that was TAKEN AWAY, unlike no other in this game, but FSS lovers wont have their experience destroyed by this monstrosity, since they wont have the ADS fitted.
4. People would have to actually travel all the way to a body and probe it, in order to find out if there is a POI over there, a huge negative.
5. Installing one on ship, would disable the FSS, so it would be one or the other, no overlap, so simple and FSS haters will loose all the marvelous characteristics of the very "genius" FSS.
6. All these threads will stop. (Its a negative because i ll miss those threads)
Click to expand...

You’ll need to justify 5.

The FSS as a body scanner is quite a useful tool and it also has a use in addition to exploration.
It isn’t so much about hating the FSS as that it just doesn’t support a methodology that the ADS provided.

Unless there is some tangible advantage to be had by using both, then there’s no need to make them mutually exclusive, especially where the non-exploration in-bubble usage of the FSS for USS detection is concerned.

That said, if that is the only way to get the ADS back, I’ll take it.
 

Taimaru

Taimaru
MadDogMurdock said:
Exactly how would it be OP?
Could you discover more, more quickly, gather more tags or credits?
What advantage would it actually provide?
It’s a common argument, but it does need to be fleshed out more than just being a statement.
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Ok, imagine you jump into a system which has an Earth-like which you obviously want to scan. Following are 3 scenarios which explain what happens if you have only the FSS, or only the ADS, and if you have both working together.

Scenario 1 - FSS only: You need to hunt around for the Earth-like within the FSS. You might find it quickly, however, you have to put some effort into finding it if it's not directly in front of you.

Scenario 2 - ADS only: Once you've selected the Earth-like after honking you need to fly to the planet to scan it. It might be really close or it could be far away, however, some time is required to fly to it.

Scenario 3 - FSS + ADS combined: Once you've selected the Earth-like after honking and lined yourself up with the planet in supercruise which is quick and easy to do, you bring up the FSS and it's instantly directly in front of you. No effort required to find it or fly to it.

Don't forget Elite: Dangerous is supposed to be a game, where everything isn't supposed to be handed to you on a plate.
 
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Riverside

Riverside
Taimaru said:
Ok, imagine you jump into a system which has an Earth-like which you obviously want to scan. Following are 3 scenarios which explain what happens if you have only the FSS, or only the ADS, and if you have both working together.

Scenario 1 - FSS only: You need to hunt around for the Earth-like within the FSS. You might find it quickly, however, you have to put some effort into finding it if it's not directly in front of you.

Scenario 2 - ADS only: Once you've selected the Earth-like after honking you need to fly to the planet to scan it. It might be really close or it could be far away, however, some time is required to fly to it.

Scenario 3 - FSS + ADS combined: Once you've selected the Earth-like after honking and lined yourself up with the planet in supercruise which is quick and easy to do, you bring up the FSS and it's instantly directly in front of you. No effort required to find it or fly to it.

Don't forget Elite: Dangerous is supposed to be a game, where everything isn't supposed to be handed to you on a plate.
Click to expand...

Could you put some estimated times to complete on that? I appreciate that in-system travel time would have quite a large variance.

The only two competitive elements I see are getting a tag (which requires returning to dock to sell the data) and BGS points, where value per hour is more important than whether the body is already tagged or not.
 

Taimaru

Taimaru
Riverside said:
Could you put some estimated times to complete on that? I appreciate that in-system travel time would have quite a large variance.

The only two competitive elements I see are getting a tag (which requires returning to dock to sell the data) and BGS points, where value per hour is more important than whether the body is already tagged or not.
Click to expand...
You can simulate it yourself. Go to a system you haven't been before but is pre-discovered. You can find these in and near the bubble. Once you've honked the system you will have a system map of undiscovered bodies which simulates having the ADS.

It just makes scanning the system too easy. I mean, why stop there? Why don't we just have everything in the system all discovered just by honking? Who needs gameplay or effort to get a system fully scanned? 😛
 
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