I doubt FD will introduce size 9 slots for anything that fits the mailslot and large landing pad. I must say though, your proposal is by far the most reasonable and not over the top fairy tale suggestion. I believe though that you've miscalculated the FSD. 25ly fully laden on a size 6 ? Nope. This would be the first ship in the game with a size 8 FSD. That FSD actually exists in the game and is on sale, but we can't see it, because no ship can use it yet.
Panther Clipper XL!
- Thread starter Noobilite
- Start date
How far could the original pather clipper jump in the original games? Was there a range limit comparable to now? Was it far compared to other ships? I thought I read it was relatively short ranged when it came to jumping. Never played the games though, so I don't really know.
I think there was a bugged jump range of like 655.35ly ly or something. I made a build at one point in another thread where I maxed it out at that total jump range when considering multiple jumps. I was originally trying to incorporate the bug with a 256 fuel tank as the max jump for the ship under certain considerations. And it just so happens that design was based on an 800t hull. Didn't even realize it. https://s.orbis.zone/2pzw takes a 256 tank though. You could set it up that way as an explorer if you wanted too.
Here's my old thread on it: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/panther-clipper-what-stats.426464/
There was an idea to not allow it to fly without crew on it. This would help cut into profits and make it more balanced.
I think there was a bugged jump range of like 655.35ly ly or something. I made a build at one point in another thread where I maxed it out at that total jump range when considering multiple jumps. I was originally trying to incorporate the bug with a 256 fuel tank as the max jump for the ship under certain considerations. And it just so happens that design was based on an 800t hull. Didn't even realize it. https://s.orbis.zone/2pzw takes a 256 tank though. You could set it up that way as an explorer if you wanted too.
Here's my old thread on it: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/panther-clipper-what-stats.426464/
There was an idea to not allow it to fly without crew on it. This would help cut into profits and make it more balanced.
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9.something ly. And was slow as hell. Was the absolute worst thing to use on any task that required any speed, - beeing courrier runs, assasinations or bombing. The only thing it was good at was hauling massive amounts of cargo or being kitted out as a battleship and go pirate hunting in anarchy systems.
Problem with the way ED handles FSD range, is that it's reliant on actual mass, which means big FSD in low weight hulls (and the panther hull was only 400t), removes the only real drawback big ships had - speed and jump ranges. So they outperform smaller ships in their dedicated roles. I'm pretty sure FD never intended the anaconda to outperform dedicated explorers or the Cutter to outperform T9 in their roles. Kinda ruins the whole idea of "multirole vs Specialist"
Edit: Regarding speed for missions on a timer, this aspect has gracefully been eliminated from the game, since all ships are effectively same speed. Only sublight speed differs, and travel is more or less instantaneous. Which means the niche superfast small courrier ships don't even have a role, as a brick of a T9 could effectively do it in the same time (bar 1 minute flighttime for launch and landing). Only place is for long range passenger runs - and here the 'conda will still outperform a small one.
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One thing they could do is make an alliance based rank ship set based on tansport. It would be things like the Boa, Griffin and possibly Panther Clipper. I say possibly becasue if you wanted to hide it you could also make it not only a rank based ship but a special ship opened up when you get all 3 ranks systems maxed out. So, if you get max rank with alliance, Feds, and Imperials then you get access to the Panther Clipper. A third ship would then fit in with the Boa and Griffin.
en.wikipedia.org
wiki.alioth.net
Possible ships: (Estimated Jump range compared to max anaconda in ED vs FFE. 84.11/18.37=4.57866086 multiplier)
wiki.alioth.net
(67.31)
wiki.alioth.net
(37.91)
wiki.alioth.net
(52.88)
wiki.alioth.net
(73.53)
wiki.alioth.net
(27.75)
wiki.alioth.net
(74.17)
They could revive older types of ships or have new ones as part of a mariner fleet like in WW2 that is based on trading things instead of combat. they could also have a focus on different things like jump range vs capacity or similar so one of them may compete with or outdo the anaconda in jump ability. As someone said the 8 sized FSD is in game. Maybe one can get the FSD while the panther clipper gets the smaller one.
This may be what the Boa has. And I wonder if they weren't preparing the boa to be in game as the 8 is not available but on the boa.
So, Boa to get close to the anaconda with the first permanent 8A FSD, and the Panther clipper to out do the Type-9/cutter. Of course they could also add the imperial Trader(to imps). Assuming that is not the cutter. And griffin as a shorter ranged alternative to the panther clipper until you get the panther clipper.
Possibly Puma Clipper, Boa, Griffin as Alliance rank ships. Then the hard one is if you grind max rank in all 3 powers you get access to the Panther Clipper. Max rank. Not rank 12 for the big ships. Rank 14. And maybe you have to have elite in trade or something. Which wouldn't be hard. Maybe triple elite to be really picky. Then you can get a 1586 ton cargo panther clipper. It could be the final shop from the Pilot federation for gaining rank from all powers and triple elite. The only thing bigger would be carriers and mega ships.
To make the panther clipper and bigger ships more interesting(slf capable ships in general) CQC ranks could be used to unlock customization and custom rank unlocked SLF/Shuttles. some could be fighters, some could be transport ships like the Worm and other older shuttle craft. As a way to allow two fighters at once you could allow one pure combat SLF and one shuttle craft out at once with NPC's. The shuttle craft could be useful if it can pick up cargo and has a cargo bay for gathering mats in combat so you have an alternative to limpets. This could allow more versatility whole allowing more damage, but with different specialized craft. Maybe with more interesting customization options. This would also help get people to play CQC as it would get people to grind to unlock customization options inside slf and get them good at combat etc for those interested. The CQC already has customization to start. The shuttles would be far less manoeuvrable and far more vulnerable to damage. But could open up more gameplay mechanics/options as time goes on.
The Transporter has an interesting description of being able to land on asteroids. I wonder what gameplay mechanics that could help with. Maybe non limpet based prospector or possibly mini miner. Maybe something completely new. Might help with combat if they ever make that more dangerous in general. Like more than just an initial instance of pirates.
If shuttles don't come out of the SLF bay it could have a different bay and one craft or something and have the crew member actually flying it. If it blows up so does that crew member. This would prepaid temp pilots or cheap harmless pilots very convenient to keep on hand. Maybe you could allow 2 shuttles and One SLF. Then you could also do 2 fighters and one SLF if you used a Player with multi crew for much better combat abilities. Shuttles like the worm could be the cheap npc version of two slf. The orbital shuttle could also be an option as it can be a hospital and other ship if needed. Useful for new rescue mission types and getting people out of stations/megaships etc.
Worm=combat roles/light cargo
Transporter= heavy cargo/passenger transfer/Atmospheric passenger landings(maybe for people who don't own the expansion and for getting items.)
Orbital shuttle= General/Rescue/specialized mission ship.
All of this unlocked with CQC and customizable shuttle/SLF. The customization could be done in the livery screen. It could be simplified, predefined, non engineerable options you buy in game somehow. But it's combat/utility for SLF/Shuttles.
One use of the Transporter could be for transporting people to new atmospheric planets without going down. This could give access to dropping passengers for doing passenger mission involving atmopsheric or other planetary landings or for other things on those planets surfaces(especially if remote mission starting is added.) and it could allow an easier way to get mission items for certain mission types without having to land and waiste time. You could send the shuttle down to the atmospheric planet(which may have more odds of having such items or could always stock them. Plus the convenience that almost every beacon has an ELW next to it.) This could add a use for this for doing tourist beacon passenger missions and new playstyle options. If the Transporter is too big to be a shuttle a mini version could be implemented with less passenger space/cargo. This would also be useful if they made the panther clipper bigger than the mailbox. just give ita bunch of cargo stuff to transfer in to new very tiny shuttle pads or external shuttle docks. This would open more balance means and a way to customize or justify the Panther Clippers enormous potential cargo abilities. All those 7 slots I gave it could be full of shuttle craft and would give it a reason to have more than 3 crew. It could have lots of shuttle crew. In fact shuttle crew could be a whole new category of crew if needed. Maybe like the old ships it needs to fill in and takes a long time. Or you could make shuttle crew have a different pay structure and take longer to get. To be really funny you could make it take a real month like with Power play items to get them all! But with no fast forward!
That could be a real limiter for big transport ships. Crew gathering. That combined with actual shuttle crew death would make it interesting. You could get a new crew member every 3.3 days in real life. Then you have to make them count!!
But to compensate you might not need to have them to fly the ship. Or only on the first takeoff. Probably not at all as they are a convenience. Or only a few have to be on hand to fly the Panther clipper or Boa. Maybe 2 or 3 and the rest are cargo handlers. I wonder what type of rank ups they could get.
Is the Racer small enough to be a shuttle? Not completely sure the Transporter is as it's not 0.00 on the one stat. I don't know what all of that means. I'm assuming it's not as it's a competitor to the cobra MKIV.
United States Merchant Marine - Wikipedia
Category:Ships - Elite Wiki
Possible ships: (Estimated Jump range compared to max anaconda in ED vs FFE. 84.11/18.37=4.57866086 multiplier)
Puma Clipper - Elite Wiki
Panther Clipper - Elite Wiki
Turner Class - Elite Wiki
Mantis - Elite Wiki
Griffin - Elite Wiki
Boa (disambiguation) - Elite Wiki
They could revive older types of ships or have new ones as part of a mariner fleet like in WW2 that is based on trading things instead of combat. they could also have a focus on different things like jump range vs capacity or similar so one of them may compete with or outdo the anaconda in jump ability. As someone said the 8 sized FSD is in game. Maybe one can get the FSD while the panther clipper gets the smaller one.
This may be what the Boa has. And I wonder if they weren't preparing the boa to be in game as the 8 is not available but on the boa.
So, Boa to get close to the anaconda with the first permanent 8A FSD, and the Panther clipper to out do the Type-9/cutter. Of course they could also add the imperial Trader(to imps). Assuming that is not the cutter. And griffin as a shorter ranged alternative to the panther clipper until you get the panther clipper.
Possibly Puma Clipper, Boa, Griffin as Alliance rank ships. Then the hard one is if you grind max rank in all 3 powers you get access to the Panther Clipper. Max rank. Not rank 12 for the big ships. Rank 14. And maybe you have to have elite in trade or something. Which wouldn't be hard. Maybe triple elite to be really picky. Then you can get a 1586 ton cargo panther clipper. It could be the final shop from the Pilot federation for gaining rank from all powers and triple elite. The only thing bigger would be carriers and mega ships.
To make the panther clipper and bigger ships more interesting(slf capable ships in general) CQC ranks could be used to unlock customization and custom rank unlocked SLF/Shuttles. some could be fighters, some could be transport ships like the Worm and other older shuttle craft. As a way to allow two fighters at once you could allow one pure combat SLF and one shuttle craft out at once with NPC's. The shuttle craft could be useful if it can pick up cargo and has a cargo bay for gathering mats in combat so you have an alternative to limpets. This could allow more versatility whole allowing more damage, but with different specialized craft. Maybe with more interesting customization options. This would also help get people to play CQC as it would get people to grind to unlock customization options inside slf and get them good at combat etc for those interested. The CQC already has customization to start. The shuttles would be far less manoeuvrable and far more vulnerable to damage. But could open up more gameplay mechanics/options as time goes on.
The Transporter has an interesting description of being able to land on asteroids. I wonder what gameplay mechanics that could help with. Maybe non limpet based prospector or possibly mini miner. Maybe something completely new. Might help with combat if they ever make that more dangerous in general. Like more than just an initial instance of pirates.
If shuttles don't come out of the SLF bay it could have a different bay and one craft or something and have the crew member actually flying it. If it blows up so does that crew member. This would prepaid temp pilots or cheap harmless pilots very convenient to keep on hand. Maybe you could allow 2 shuttles and One SLF. Then you could also do 2 fighters and one SLF if you used a Player with multi crew for much better combat abilities. Shuttles like the worm could be the cheap npc version of two slf. The orbital shuttle could also be an option as it can be a hospital and other ship if needed. Useful for new rescue mission types and getting people out of stations/megaships etc.
Worm=combat roles/light cargo
Transporter= heavy cargo/passenger transfer/Atmospheric passenger landings(maybe for people who don't own the expansion and for getting items.)
Orbital shuttle= General/Rescue/specialized mission ship.
All of this unlocked with CQC and customizable shuttle/SLF. The customization could be done in the livery screen. It could be simplified, predefined, non engineerable options you buy in game somehow. But it's combat/utility for SLF/Shuttles.
One use of the Transporter could be for transporting people to new atmospheric planets without going down. This could give access to dropping passengers for doing passenger mission involving atmopsheric or other planetary landings or for other things on those planets surfaces(especially if remote mission starting is added.) and it could allow an easier way to get mission items for certain mission types without having to land and waiste time. You could send the shuttle down to the atmospheric planet(which may have more odds of having such items or could always stock them. Plus the convenience that almost every beacon has an ELW next to it.) This could add a use for this for doing tourist beacon passenger missions and new playstyle options. If the Transporter is too big to be a shuttle a mini version could be implemented with less passenger space/cargo. This would also be useful if they made the panther clipper bigger than the mailbox. just give ita bunch of cargo stuff to transfer in to new very tiny shuttle pads or external shuttle docks. This would open more balance means and a way to customize or justify the Panther Clippers enormous potential cargo abilities. All those 7 slots I gave it could be full of shuttle craft and would give it a reason to have more than 3 crew. It could have lots of shuttle crew. In fact shuttle crew could be a whole new category of crew if needed. Maybe like the old ships it needs to fill in and takes a long time. Or you could make shuttle crew have a different pay structure and take longer to get. To be really funny you could make it take a real month like with Power play items to get them all! But with no fast forward!
That could be a real limiter for big transport ships. Crew gathering. That combined with actual shuttle crew death would make it interesting. You could get a new crew member every 3.3 days in real life. Then you have to make them count!!But to compensate you might not need to have them to fly the ship. Or only on the first takeoff. Probably not at all as they are a convenience. Or only a few have to be on hand to fly the Panther clipper or Boa. Maybe 2 or 3 and the rest are cargo handlers. I wonder what type of rank ups they could get.
Is the Racer small enough to be a shuttle? Not completely sure the Transporter is as it's not 0.00 on the one stat. I don't know what all of that means. I'm assuming it's not as it's a competitor to the cobra MKIV.
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Given how wildly ship jump ranges have changed from FFE to ED, it's probably better to consider the range of jump ranges ships that are imported from FFE could have. Ships will not be fitted with an FSD booster for the sake of this comparison (it can be added later).One thing they could do is make an alliance based rank ship set based on tansport. It would be things like the Boa, Griffin and possibly Panther Clipper. I say possibly becasue if you wanted to hide it you could also make it not only a rank based ship but a special ship opened up when you get all 3 ranks systems maxed out. So, if you get max rank with alliance, Feds, and Imperials then you get access to the Panther Clipper. A third ship would then fit in with the Boa and Griffin.
United States Merchant Marine - Wikipedia
Category:Ships - Elite Wiki
Possible ships: (Estimated Jump range compared to max anaconda in ED vs FFE. 84.11/18.37=4.57866086 multiplier)
(67.31)Puma Clipper - Elite Wiki
(37.91)Panther Clipper - Elite Wiki
(52.88)Turner Class - Elite Wiki
(73.53)Mantis - Elite Wiki
(27.75)Griffin - Elite Wiki
(74.17)Boa (disambiguation) - Elite Wiki
They could revive older types of ships or have new ones as part of a mariner fleet like in WW2 that is based on trading things instead of combat. they could also have a focus on different things like jump range vs capacity or similar so one of them may compete with or outdo the anaconda in jump ability. As someone said the 8 sized FSD is in game. Maybe one can get the FSD while the panther clipper gets the smaller one.
| Ship Name | Adder | Anaconda | Asp X | Cobra III | Eagle (Mk II) | Python | Sidewinder | Average | ||
| FFE Jump range | 49.09 | 18.37 | 32.00 | 27.00 | 96.42 | 21.60 | 36.36 | |||
| ED Jump Range | 54.09 | 73.81 | 62.41 | 46.33 | 40.97 | 50.94 | 40.01 | |||
| Factor | 1.102 | 4.018 | 1.950 | 1.716 | 0.425 | 2.358 | 1.100 | 1.810 | ||
| Ship Name | FFE Jump Range | ED Jump Range | ||||||||
| Puma | 14.70 | 16.20 | 59.06 | 28.67 | 25.23 | 6.25 | 34.66 | 16.17 | 26.61 | |
| Panther Clipper | 8.28 | 9.12 | 33.27 | 16.15 | 14.21 | 3.52 | 19.52 | 9.11 | 14.99 | |
| Turner | 11.55 | 12.73 | 46.41 | 22.52 | 19.82 | 4.91 | 27.23 | 12.71 | 20.91 | |
| Mantis | 16.06 | 17.70 | 64.53 | 31.32 | 27.56 | 6.83 | 37.87 | 17.67 | 29.07 | |
| Griffin | 6.06 | 6.68 | 24.35 | 11.82 | 10.40 | 2.58 | 14.29 | 6.67 | 10.97 | |
| Boa | 16.20 | 17.85 | 65.09 | 31.59 | 27.80 | 6.89 | 38.20 | 17.82 | 29.32 |
Given how wildly these values differ from each other based on what ship you use as a starting point (the Eagle and Anaconda differ by a factor of 9.45), I think it's fair to say that estimating the jump ranges of ships from FE2/FFE in ED by comparing them to ships that exist in both games is not a good method for determining the jump ranges of ships to be added to ED.
One common theme I keep coming across in threads that suggest new ships for ED is that the OP focuses on a few key aspects of the design (cargo capacity, jump range, and hardpoints seem to be the most common) and omits many other aspects of the ship's performance that are just as important when balancing the ship (hull mass, armour and shield values, speed and boost values, acceleration and maneuverability, etc...). It is impossible to balance a ship based on it's jump range, cargo capacity, or hardpoint count alone, and effort should be taken to provide a more complete picture of what the poster believes the new ship should be capable of.
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Oh, yea. I didn't consider FSD boosters. That means add up to 10 to the numbers I used. That puts the boa at equal to(Actually, slightly better than) the anaconda with better cargo space if you simply inscreased those values. Given it's based on a type 8 FSD you could go with it and scale it with hull mass pretty easily. It could be the only 8FSD ship in the game.
I've added the other stats that EDSY has for ships in the OP at this point. I think about the only thing I haven't done is min max heat. Actually, I added that, but I don't know enough about it to know if it makes logical sense. I did pitch/yaw/roll/minpitch and 0 pip speed along with optimal speed and boost speed stats to give an idea of what it should be. Heavily modeled after the type-9.
Yes, I also took max engineers range as the comparison and not basic starting jump range. That might make a difference.
I've added the other stats that EDSY has for ships in the OP at this point. I think about the only thing I haven't done is min max heat. Actually, I added that, but I don't know enough about it to know if it makes logical sense. I did pitch/yaw/roll/minpitch and 0 pip speed along with optimal speed and boost speed stats to give an idea of what it should be. Heavily modeled after the type-9.
Yes, I also took max engineers range as the comparison and not basic starting jump range. That might make a difference.
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I'm just going to point out that none of this follows the principle of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).This may be what the Boa has. And I wonder if they weren't preparing the boa to be in game as the 8 is not available but on the boa.
So, Boa to get close to the anaconda with the first permanent 8A FSD, and the Panther clipper to out do the Type-9/cutter. Of course they could also add the imperial Trader(to imps). Assuming that is not the cutter. And griffin as a shorter ranged alternative to the panther clipper until you get the panther clipper.
Possibly Puma Clipper, Boa, Griffin as Alliance rank ships. Then the hard one is if you grind max rank in all 3 powers you get access to the Panther Clipper. Max rank. Not rank 12 for the big ships. Rank 14. And maybe you have to have elite in trade or something. Which wouldn't be hard. Maybe triple elite to be really picky. Then you can get a 1586 ton cargo panther clipper. It could be the final shop from the Pilot federation for gaining rank from all powers and triple elite. The only thing bigger would be carriers and mega ships.
To make the panther clipper and bigger ships more interesting(slf capable ships in general) CQC ranks could be used to unlock customization and custom rank unlocked SLF/Shuttles. some could be fighters, some could be transport ships like the Worm and other older shuttle craft. As a way to allow two fighters at once you could allow one pure combat SLF and one shuttle craft out at once with NPC's. The shuttle craft could be useful if it can pick up cargo and has a cargo bay for gathering mats in combat so you have an alternative to limpets. This could allow more versatility whole allowing more damage, but with different specialized craft. Maybe with more interesting customization options. This would also help get people to play CQC as it would get people to grind to unlock customization options inside slf and get them good at combat etc for those interested. The CQC already has customization to start. The shuttles would be far less manoeuvrable and far more vulnerable to damage. But could open up more gameplay mechanics/options as time goes on.
The Transporter has an interesting description of being able to land on asteroids. I wonder what gameplay mechanics that could help with. Maybe non limpet based prospector or possibly mini miner. Maybe something completely new. Might help with combat if they ever make that more dangerous in general. Like more than just an initial instance of pirates.
If shuttles don't come out of the SLF bay it could have a different bay and one craft or something and have the crew member actually flying it. If it blows up so does that crew member. This would prepaid temp pilots or cheap harmless pilots very convenient to keep on hand. Maybe you could allow 2 shuttles and One SLF. Then you could also do 2 fighters and one SLF if you used a Player with multi crew for much better combat abilities. Shuttles like the worm could be the cheap npc version of two slf. The orbital shuttle could also be an option as it can be a hospital and other ship if needed. Useful for new rescue mission types and getting people out of stations/megaships etc.
Worm=combat roles/light cargo
Transporter= heavy cargo/passenger transfer/Atmospheric passenger landings(maybe for people who don't own the expansion and for getting items.)
Orbital shuttle= General/Rescue/specialized mission ship.
All of this unlocked with CQC and customizable shuttle/SLF. The customization could be done in the livery screen. It could be simplified, predefined, non engineerable options you buy in game somehow. But it's combat/utility for SLF/Shuttles.
One use of the Transporter could be for transporting people to new atmospheric planets without going down. This could give access to dropping passengers for doing passenger mission involving atmopsheric or other planetary landings or for other things on those planets surfaces(especially if remote mission starting is added.) and it could allow an easier way to get mission items for certain mission types without having to land and waiste time. You could send the shuttle down to the atmospheric planet(which may have more odds of having such items or could always stock them. Plus the convenience that almost every beacon has an ELW next to it.) This could add a use for this for doing tourist beacon passenger missions and new playstyle options. If the Transporter is too big to be a shuttle a mini version could be implemented with less passenger space/cargo. This would also be useful if they made the panther clipper bigger than the mailbox. just give ita bunch of cargo stuff to transfer in to new very tiny shuttle pads or external shuttle docks. This would open more balance means and a way to customize or justify the Panther Clippers enormous potential cargo abilities. All those 7 slots I gave it could be full of shuttle craft and would give it a reason to have more than 3 crew. It could have lots of shuttle crew. In fact shuttle crew could be a whole new category of crew if needed. Maybe like the old ships it needs to fill in and takes a long time. Or you could make shuttle crew have a different pay structure and take longer to get. To be really funny you could make it take a real month like with Power play items to get them all! But with no fast forward!
But to compensate you might not need to have them to fly the ship. Or only on the first takeoff. Probably not at all as they are a convenience. Or only a few have to be on hand to fly the Panther clipper or Boa. Maybe 2 or 3 and the rest are cargo handlers. I wonder what type of rank ups they could get.
Is the Racer small enough to be a shuttle? Not completely sure the Transporter is as it's not 0.00 on the one stat. I don't know what all of that means. I'm assuming it's not as it's a competitor to the cobra MKIV.
There is no need to lock 3 massive trade ships behind an Alliance navy rank grind. The ethos of the Alliance does not suit the current navy rank grind mechanics, and the Alliance already have ships would be suitable for such a grind. There is no need to introduce 3 new ships just to lock them behind a pointless time sink. Also, for locking the Panther Clipper behind the grind wall that would be max rank for all 3 superpowers, HELL THE F&CK NO. And then to go and further lock the Panther Clipper behind Elite rankings? I'm sorry but what the actual F&CK are you thinking?
For the record, I have said in the past that it is very unlikely that you will be able to get 1586 tons of cargo into a Panther Clipper in ED. For reference, please read through this:
Using the SLF bay for shuttles has been discussed before, but making it an unlock for CQC is needlessly complicated.
The Transporter might already be in-game as the Type-6.
Landing on asteroids is something that most ships would theoretically be capable of (provided that they could physically or magnetically affix themselves to the asteroid), but it wouldn't be particularly useful as you could just as easily park your ship next to the asteroid and experience the same gravitational effects without having to deal with the rotation of the asteroid.
I hate naval rank grinds, but if FDev did add one for the Alliance, I'd want it to be different and characterful for the Alliance. Make it based on the number of Alliance factions you're Allied or Friendly with. Help out the Alliance broadly, and you get their stuff.
That's why I wanted the mariner ranks. That isn't marine like navy/army/airforce/marine(although I assume that would be the origin of the name marine). It's marine as in transport mariner. A guy who captains a transport/cargo ship. Maritime marines are different. They are combo civilian/military transporters. I thought that would fit alliance as it's based on WW2 Transport civilian rankings used to carry goods over to england. So, it's based on doing what the alliance prefers over open war and would unlock utility ships like good transporters/miners. Which, I would also be good at other things potentially like passenger and whatnot.
I put back the idea of the H or XL slot. I think it would be nice to have one big weapon from a capital ship. There is one that is acutally a giant lazer like in the original game. It was on the imperial captial ship. That would give it an actual equivilant to it's original PA. Besides the fact it's turreted. I wonder what the stats are on those beams. I've been hit by them with a 2500 sheild corvette and didn't feel much. I don't think they would be OP or anything. Unless against smaller vessels. It could also help weight down the vessel. Maybe they weigh 32-64 t each. Probably much higher power and heat. Are there known stats for those capital ship weapons?
One balance aspect can be operational cost. This goes well with the original theme of a money is no limit ship and could act as a money sink for end game. The 9A concept, higher base hull, higher integrity repair cost?!, Rare XL weapons could all have high repair or base cost to raise the expense of the ship. This could help balance it compared to the cutter. Having a potential 100 million credit rebuy would go a ways to making sure this is costly. Let along much higher repair cost for the hull being touched if you add a large hull for things like thargoid fighting or general use. Minimally you would have 1440 hull potentially making it cost quite a bit to repair. 2800 with max base hull adding up to quite a bit. This acts like a money sink in some use cases. Money sinks being a very useful balance method for this ship and for the end game.
To balance it more you could potentially only buy the ship at jameson memorial and the xl weapons could be unlocked at tier 14 for empire and federation. Each unlocking different selections of weapons. This requires grind to fully use in either direction. And allows you to use the ship itself to grind more easily. Making it a fun thing to get after elite.
I can't find exact info on cost of module repair. Not sure if it's based on module max integrity, cost of module, or a static value.
Did a rough estimate of the cost of a 4A turreted Rail gun. It could possibly cost up to around 112.6 million credits or more. The same plasma accelerator could cost around 373 million.
This is a base idea of if it had that weapon and 7 weapons: 7 engine, 8 PP, 8 tank 2.67billion, 4xl Turret(just cost estimated), 8 tank, 4k armor, 2k shields, 9A Fuel scoop(2.181/s), 133m rebuy.
This would make a great end game sink. the shields and armor stated are if the I could modify the base values of the ships to 400 base shield 800 base armor. Damage and other values are not estiated for the XL 4A Plasma turret. There is only a cost estimate.
All 9 sized Fuel scoops: (estimates not necessarily accurate)
9A: Cost: 916,265,169; Scoop Rate: 2.181; Power Draw: 1.27mw; Integrity: 204
9B: Cost: 229,066,292; Scoop Rate: 1.869; Power Draw: 1.088571429mw; Integrity: 238
9C: Cost: 57,266,573; Scoop Rate: 1.557; Power Draw: 0.9071428571mw; Integrity: 170
9D: Cost: 14,316,643; Scoop Rate: 1.245; Power Draw: 0.7257142857mw; Integrity: 102
9E: Cost: 3,435,994; Scoop Rate: 0.933; Power Draw: 0.5442857142mw; Integrity: 136
The scoop rate to slot would make any ship with a 9 slot very lucky. 9D is equal to a 7A for 6.5th of the cost and lower power. Albeit lower integrity.
If the boa and griffin and even puma clipper came out with at least one 9 slot each it could make for some interesting ships. Not to mention potential utilities. I wouldn't bother making a 9 sheild size though unless absolutely needed. Then higher shield ships can use 8 and take the penalty from hull mass.
If you added a 9A afmu it could potentially have 12,500 and 0.28 healing for exactly 350 repair. This is either 1 large or 10 large module protection slots. That would make 9 ideal for module protection. A griffin or something with 2 9's and smaller slots could be ideal for fun long term combat builds.
If a big line of ships from alliance were hidden behind rep they could all sport 9 slots. Maybe one of them even having 2 nine slots. I would imagine the Panther clipper would be like the anaconda(as far as hull weight is concerened) of these ship s with only 800 hull. The rest would have upwards of 1100-1500 base hull mass or more. Maybe to grind the alliance rep you need to have elite in trade and once you get that you can buy a puma clipper from jameson. It could be unique to jameson memorial. Then griffon/boa/panther clipper are unlocked from alliance merchant marine ranks. The boa could be jump focused and be able to equal the anaconda in jump range with it's locked in 8A FSD. And the griffin could be a cheaper lower jump range panther clipper. maybe with more unique combat stuff like double 9 slots and worse lower slots.
If I made it's base hull mass 1350 and raised the FSD to a 7 I could change the optionals to this:
Optional slots: (1602 max cargo)
9
8
8
7
7
7
6
6
5
4
3
3
1
Then the 800t one could be the puma clipper with much less cargo. griffin could have 1500 hull weight.
I put back the idea of the H or XL slot. I think it would be nice to have one big weapon from a capital ship. There is one that is acutally a giant lazer like in the original game. It was on the imperial captial ship. That would give it an actual equivilant to it's original PA. Besides the fact it's turreted. I wonder what the stats are on those beams. I've been hit by them with a 2500 sheild corvette and didn't feel much. I don't think they would be OP or anything. Unless against smaller vessels. It could also help weight down the vessel. Maybe they weigh 32-64 t each. Probably much higher power and heat. Are there known stats for those capital ship weapons?
One balance aspect can be operational cost. This goes well with the original theme of a money is no limit ship and could act as a money sink for end game. The 9A concept, higher base hull, higher integrity repair cost?!, Rare XL weapons could all have high repair or base cost to raise the expense of the ship. This could help balance it compared to the cutter. Having a potential 100 million credit rebuy would go a ways to making sure this is costly. Let along much higher repair cost for the hull being touched if you add a large hull for things like thargoid fighting or general use. Minimally you would have 1440 hull potentially making it cost quite a bit to repair. 2800 with max base hull adding up to quite a bit. This acts like a money sink in some use cases. Money sinks being a very useful balance method for this ship and for the end game.
To balance it more you could potentially only buy the ship at jameson memorial and the xl weapons could be unlocked at tier 14 for empire and federation. Each unlocking different selections of weapons. This requires grind to fully use in either direction. And allows you to use the ship itself to grind more easily. Making it a fun thing to get after elite.
I can't find exact info on cost of module repair. Not sure if it's based on module max integrity, cost of module, or a static value.
Did a rough estimate of the cost of a 4A turreted Rail gun. It could possibly cost up to around 112.6 million credits or more. The same plasma accelerator could cost around 373 million.
This is a base idea of if it had that weapon and 7 weapons: 7 engine, 8 PP, 8 tank 2.67billion, 4xl Turret(just cost estimated), 8 tank, 4k armor, 2k shields, 9A Fuel scoop(2.181/s), 133m rebuy.
This would make a great end game sink. the shields and armor stated are if the I could modify the base values of the ships to 400 base shield 800 base armor. Damage and other values are not estiated for the XL 4A Plasma turret. There is only a cost estimate.
All 9 sized Fuel scoops: (estimates not necessarily accurate)
9A: Cost: 916,265,169; Scoop Rate: 2.181; Power Draw: 1.27mw; Integrity: 204
9B: Cost: 229,066,292; Scoop Rate: 1.869; Power Draw: 1.088571429mw; Integrity: 238
9C: Cost: 57,266,573; Scoop Rate: 1.557; Power Draw: 0.9071428571mw; Integrity: 170
9D: Cost: 14,316,643; Scoop Rate: 1.245; Power Draw: 0.7257142857mw; Integrity: 102
9E: Cost: 3,435,994; Scoop Rate: 0.933; Power Draw: 0.5442857142mw; Integrity: 136
The scoop rate to slot would make any ship with a 9 slot very lucky. 9D is equal to a 7A for 6.5th of the cost and lower power. Albeit lower integrity.
If the boa and griffin and even puma clipper came out with at least one 9 slot each it could make for some interesting ships. Not to mention potential utilities. I wouldn't bother making a 9 sheild size though unless absolutely needed. Then higher shield ships can use 8 and take the penalty from hull mass.
If you added a 9A afmu it could potentially have 12,500 and 0.28 healing for exactly 350 repair. This is either 1 large or 10 large module protection slots. That would make 9 ideal for module protection. A griffin or something with 2 9's and smaller slots could be ideal for fun long term combat builds.
If a big line of ships from alliance were hidden behind rep they could all sport 9 slots. Maybe one of them even having 2 nine slots. I would imagine the Panther clipper would be like the anaconda(as far as hull weight is concerened) of these ship s with only 800 hull. The rest would have upwards of 1100-1500 base hull mass or more. Maybe to grind the alliance rep you need to have elite in trade and once you get that you can buy a puma clipper from jameson. It could be unique to jameson memorial. Then griffon/boa/panther clipper are unlocked from alliance merchant marine ranks. The boa could be jump focused and be able to equal the anaconda in jump range with it's locked in 8A FSD. And the griffin could be a cheaper lower jump range panther clipper. maybe with more unique combat stuff like double 9 slots and worse lower slots.
If I made it's base hull mass 1350 and raised the FSD to a 7 I could change the optionals to this:
Optional slots: (1602 max cargo)
9
8
8
7
7
7
6
6
5
4
3
3
1
Then the 800t one could be the puma clipper with much less cargo. griffin could have 1500 hull weight.
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Here is a more reasonable panther clipper at 1350 tons hull: Panther Clipper
Note: 655.35ly laden jump range! 8p
Only around 32-47ly jump ranges(ldn/uldn)
Presumed 9 shield:
9A Prismatic: Cost: 773,098,744.1; Mass: 640; Integrity: 203; Power Draw: 9.45?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 1.8; Broken Regen Rate: 6.66
9D Bi-Weave: Cost: 85,899,867.5; Mass: 320; Integrity: 170; Power Draw: 4.5?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 7.2; Broken Regen Rate: 18
Differences:
Fuel Reserve: 2.25
Boost: 23mj
Cargo: 1500(1400 equipped. 6D shield(stripped), 5GFSB, Supercruise, AdvancedDocking)(Must sacrifice for a Fuel scoop.) (or 1468 in 8's version)
Internals:
Armor: 1
Power Plant: 8
Thrusters: 8
FSD: 8
Life Support: 7
PD: 7-8
Sensors: 8
Fuel: 8 (256)
Optional internals:
9
9
7
7
6
6
5
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Or: (no 9's) (Changes max cargo to 1468)
8
8
8
8
8
6
6
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Note: 655.35ly laden jump range! 8p
Only around 32-47ly jump ranges(ldn/uldn)
Presumed 9 shield:
9A Prismatic: Cost: 773,098,744.1; Mass: 640; Integrity: 203; Power Draw: 9.45?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 1.8; Broken Regen Rate: 6.66
9D Bi-Weave: Cost: 85,899,867.5; Mass: 320; Integrity: 170; Power Draw: 4.5?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 7.2; Broken Regen Rate: 18
Differences:
Fuel Reserve: 2.25
Boost: 23mj
Cargo: 1500(1400 equipped. 6D shield(stripped), 5GFSB, Supercruise, AdvancedDocking)(Must sacrifice for a Fuel scoop.) (or 1468 in 8's version)
Internals:
Armor: 1
Power Plant: 8
Thrusters: 8
FSD: 8
Life Support: 7
PD: 7-8
Sensors: 8
Fuel: 8 (256)
Optional internals:
9
9
7
7
6
6
5
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Or: (no 9's) (Changes max cargo to 1468)
8
8
8
8
8
6
6
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Last edited:
I think you almost nailed it. Except I expect the PD to be a size 7, and there will be no size 9 slots. make those 4 size 8 and combine the two size 7 to a 5th size 8, and you got a very probable version. Maybe a few less smaller internals and barely capable to equip a size 6 shield.
That might make sense. The original had it only available for ships preinstalled with it. I was mistaking standard drive in the old game info as the thrusters when it meant the starting FSD. I've fixed the griffin/panther clipper ideas with starting size 8 FSD. Need to do the boa over also. Probably with the original 1000 hull mass over 500. Unless nobody minds it being the first 100ly jump non capital/mega ship! 8) It only gets around 66 jump range with 1000 base hull. But it has closer to the original shop mass and has the proportionally correct hull to the anaconda at 500 hull mass. So, it might be justifiable. But then the other ships aren't in line. I was assuming maybe it out did the anaconda finally as it has type 8 FSD also.
Although I'm just noticing one of the names for the griffin is the Griffin Carrier. Maybe that is what the fleet carrier will be.
Maybe if I reduce the Panther clipper down to 1000 base hull and leave the griffin with 1350. Or simply bump the griffin up to 1800 hull.
Last edited:
I keep looking at info that all says it's bare cargo is 1400 with drive... The drive 8 is 600t and the base cargo is 2100t and max weight is 2500t. Why does this add up to 700 drive. Is the 1400 cargo a type or is it the correct value? Shouldn't it be 1500? Should I split the difference and go back to 1440 cargo or do 1500 cargo? I was themeing the original ship on values of 720/1440 etc.
Does anyone know how much fuel the Panther clipper could carry and how many jumps it had compared to other ships. Should it get 128 or 256 fuel? I count what it should have based on finding cargo then adding what slots it should have for minimal equipped items. Currently the Panther clipper does not account for a fuel scoop because it has a huge fuel tank and because some info says it couldn't fit a fuel scoop so I'm currently only giving it the minimal shields, GFSB, supercruise assist, and advanced docking computer for 64+32+2+2= 100 cargo on top of the base cargo. Not sure what to do with. Still now sure how it's hull was compared to other ships either like vs a griffin for those purposes. Trying to balance the different ideas to make them proportional to each other and the existing game.
Some of the problem is that it's easier to get a 9 at a certain point as I assume you can't go past 13 total slots for optionals. Or would this not be a real game limiter? and on the other hand having 2 1 size slots make the numbers nice and round like in the original game values.
The other issue is one of those values has to be a 1 or it has to go past 13 total slots. Is it justifiable to do so for a ship this large and expensive?
I can either:
256+256+256+256+256+128+64+16+8+4+(64+32+4); +(64+32+2+2) = 1500+100=1600 /13 slots;14 slots
Or:
512+256+256+256+128+64+16+8+4+(64+32+2+2) 1500+100=1600 /13 slots
Is there a hard coding to number of slots in the game or would it not matter?
Or should i just add a 64 slot for a presumed 6A Fuel scoop so it doesn't mess up the 655.35 jump range!? 8)
Optional internals: (max 1564)(I think this is better. It preserves my stupid number theme! 8p)
8
8 or two as a 9
8
8
8
6
6
6
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Assume equipment is 64+64+32+2+2
Or: (1682/1440)
8
8
8
8
7
7
7
7
6
5
5
4
1
Assume equipment is 128+64+32+16+2
We could consider the 1400 cargo a typo and hence a reason to add it as the ships stats in memorial of it! 8p
Not sure if it needs a considered fuel scoop though. It has so much jump range it doesn't really need one.
NVM, my original 655.35 thing is based on an 8A instead of an 8D...
-------------------------
Second solution: Panther Clipper 1666/1500
Changes:
Fuel Reserve: 4.02
Optional Internals: (1666/1500)
8
8 or two into one 9
8
8
8
7
6
6
6
5
4
3
2
2
1
Unsure of the weapons if not doing the old XL idea based on an 8 PD. Maybe 4 large. Or 3 large and some change.
If using class 8 PD:
H or XL(turreted 4 or capital ship)
M
M
M
S
S
S
S
S
S
I forgot. Using 655.35 as a jump range means nothing as I can't change the fuel amount from 12.8-16.... 8\
In fact with the difference in fuel I may need to stick with th 800 ton version potentially to get it. Or go back to the drawing board.... I'll try coriolis.
---------------------------Update---------------------------
Panther Clipper 655.36 8AFSD/16t/j 8/8/8/8/8/7/6/6/5/5/5r/4/1 (1618t/1440t cargo) 720thull 1.44t fuel reserve <- right back to where I started... 8\ This would have a class 6 life support, 7 sensor, 8 engines, 32mj boost, and 256 fuel. The only potential draw back is that it can jump to about 88ly and outdoes the anaconda by a hair at max jump. 8p
**If coriolis doesn't take into account the 1.16t fuel reserve listed on EDSY then the Class 6 life support is changed to Class 5 life support to compensate. Fuel reserve is still 1.44t. This update has been put in the OP as it achieves all goals I have for the ship as far as I can see.
If the 8A is 20.48t per jump, and not 16t per jump, I don't think this can be done and acheive the 655.35 jump.
---------------------------Update---------------------------
Unless you use this as a ship to transfer between the carrier and a station from the potential USS carriers will spawn in.
Does anyone know how much fuel the Panther clipper could carry and how many jumps it had compared to other ships. Should it get 128 or 256 fuel? I count what it should have based on finding cargo then adding what slots it should have for minimal equipped items. Currently the Panther clipper does not account for a fuel scoop because it has a huge fuel tank and because some info says it couldn't fit a fuel scoop so I'm currently only giving it the minimal shields, GFSB, supercruise assist, and advanced docking computer for 64+32+2+2= 100 cargo on top of the base cargo. Not sure what to do with. Still now sure how it's hull was compared to other ships either like vs a griffin for those purposes. Trying to balance the different ideas to make them proportional to each other and the existing game.
Some of the problem is that it's easier to get a 9 at a certain point as I assume you can't go past 13 total slots for optionals. Or would this not be a real game limiter? and on the other hand having 2 1 size slots make the numbers nice and round like in the original game values.
The other issue is one of those values has to be a 1 or it has to go past 13 total slots. Is it justifiable to do so for a ship this large and expensive?
I can either:
256+256+256+256+256+128+64+16+8+4+(64+32+4); +(64+32+2+2) = 1500+100=1600 /13 slots;14 slots
Or:
512+256+256+256+128+64+16+8+4+(64+32+2+2) 1500+100=1600 /13 slots
Is there a hard coding to number of slots in the game or would it not matter?
Or should i just add a 64 slot for a presumed 6A Fuel scoop so it doesn't mess up the 655.35 jump range!? 8)
Optional internals: (max 1564)(I think this is better. It preserves my stupid number theme! 8p)
8
8 or two as a 9
8
8
8
6
6
6
5
5 reserve
4
3
1
1
Assume equipment is 64+64+32+2+2
Or: (1682/1440)
8
8
8
8
7
7
7
7
6
5
5
4
1
Assume equipment is 128+64+32+16+2
We could consider the 1400 cargo a typo and hence a reason to add it as the ships stats in memorial of it! 8p
Not sure if it needs a considered fuel scoop though. It has so much jump range it doesn't really need one.
NVM, my original 655.35 thing is based on an 8A instead of an 8D...
-------------------------
Second solution: Panther Clipper 1666/1500
Changes:
Fuel Reserve: 4.02
Optional Internals: (1666/1500)
8
8 or two into one 9
8
8
8
7
6
6
6
5
4
3
2
2
1
Unsure of the weapons if not doing the old XL idea based on an 8 PD. Maybe 4 large. Or 3 large and some change.
If using class 8 PD:
H or XL(turreted 4 or capital ship)
M
M
M
S
S
S
S
S
S
I forgot. Using 655.35 as a jump range means nothing as I can't change the fuel amount from 12.8-16.... 8\
In fact with the difference in fuel I may need to stick with th 800 ton version potentially to get it. Or go back to the drawing board.... I'll try coriolis.
---------------------------Update---------------------------
Panther Clipper 655.36 8AFSD/16t/j 8/8/8/8/8/7/6/6/5/5/5r/4/1 (1618t/1440t cargo) 720thull 1.44t fuel reserve <- right back to where I started... 8\ This would have a class 6 life support, 7 sensor, 8 engines, 32mj boost, and 256 fuel. The only potential draw back is that it can jump to about 88ly and outdoes the anaconda by a hair at max jump. 8p
**If coriolis doesn't take into account the 1.16t fuel reserve listed on EDSY then the Class 6 life support is changed to Class 5 life support to compensate. Fuel reserve is still 1.44t. This update has been put in the OP as it achieves all goals I have for the ship as far as I can see.
If the 8A is 20.48t per jump, and not 16t per jump, I don't think this can be done and acheive the 655.35 jump.
---------------------------Update---------------------------
Unless you use this as a ship to transfer between the carrier and a station from the potential USS carriers will spawn in.
Last edited:
I would say Make it to where the PC carrier another cargo ship. T6/Keelback I think would be a good choice. That would allow it to be able to trade with orbital stations and outpost while still being able to land on the Large pads on planitary stations. Give it say a 2000t capacity 1500t if you have the cargo ship and make most of its slots Dedicated cargo slots. That makes it useful as a trade ship and you could even use the keelback to mine with and just run back and forth to the PC to drop you haul and get more limpets.