Where did it go wrong?

[Hank]

I'm sure others have seen Jimi Hendricks flying around. I was shocked to see him just a few months ago. As a teenager I really wanted to go to one of his concerts but alas, he passed away before I got the chance. At the time of his heyday, I'm sure my overbearing mum would not approve so I would have to be sneaky sneaky to go. No, I did not shoot at him; I was in a cargo ship evading his attempted interdiction.

Edit: Wow, I was sure I posted this in the interesting NPC names threads. Sorry, Idk.

 

[Robert Maynard]

No thats completely wrong. Sandro spent ages trying to justify the design of making ship transfers instant. That was his preference. I voted for instant in the poll so was quite aware of it. If i ever decide to rewatch the stream again ill be sure to link the timestamp.

From memory (and I'll go digging for supporting quotes / video) Sandro was not in favour of instant - and preferred the original delayed ship transfer proposal, as discussed in the DDF. The push for instant would seem to have been driven by limited availability of Dev time in the implementation. Perhaps unsurprisingly, those expecting delayed didn't want instant. That Sandro had to try to sell instant to us was, in my opinion, unfair to him as it did not seem to be his position that he had to try to sell.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Didn't "non-instant" ship transfer come from a community vote? I seem to recall massive discussions about this and FD basically going with majority rule? I also recall almost immediately regretting my decision for non-instant transfer and realising, pretty much as soon as the feature was launched, that FD had been right in suggesting that instant transfer might be better on this occasion in the lore vs. gameplay trade-off.

Especially with the ludicrous price tag that came on top, but wasnt mentioned in the poll at all as being part of the design.

 

[babelfisch]

No one asked a delay. You should just learn what the word "exactly" means.

Ok, I'll do it. I'll waste my time looking for posts where people said FDEV should stop releasing new features and focus on bug fixing instead. I don't know why though. Maybe because it's Christmas.

September update bug fix wishlist

So, we're getting a new update in couple weeks and it made me wonder:"will this update introduce new bugs or will it actually fix few of the old ones?" I expect the answer being the former, but one can still dream, right? Anyways, here's a wishlist for a bug fixes or improvements we'd like to...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Fix this game that you sold me Frontier!!!!!!!!!!

It would be nice if you would fix this game that you sold. I am tired of going to the Mission Board and getting the failed to communicate with sever error message. This has been a regular occurrence for two weeks. Since I never have a problem accessing the galaxy and system maps the problem...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm done or "So long and thanks for all the fish."

I am done playing Elite until such a time as Frontier can pull their collective head outta ____ and finally put the QUALITY back into QA. Now I'm not making this post to tear them down or pick a fight with the white knights and fan boys. This is so that in the unlikely event that some fellow...

forums.frontier.co.uk

[video] The need for more "CONTENT"

https://youtu.be/RrhD9-RrmLY

forums.frontier.co.uk

I could go on and post a few hundred of these suggestions, but I guess you would just continue to claim that nobody ever asked for bug fixes instead of new features...

 

[Viajero]

FDEV has never been known for communication. According to one of the posters here the communication has not changed much but I think this is not correct. We had weekly Dev Updates by Michael Brookes here showing the progress of the current batch they are working on, also sharing ideas how the one or other thing can be implemented. That was cancelled later on with the result that the community started speculating about the current dev tasks.

The information regarding the progress shown and upcoming content has not changed much since Dec 2014 (even during the original beta). The same information you could see shared in those dev blogs was later also posted in newsletters, forum posts, live streams in similar level of detail and ammounts commensurate to the updates at hand. Wether it came from Michael Brookes, Zac, Ed, Will etc or other members of FDEV it has been essentially the same.

Here a couple examples from 2015:

Newsletter #71 from April 2015, where the imminent Powerplay, new mining tools and Courier ship were discussed
Newsletter #91 from September 2015, where the sneak peek and M Brookes update discussed the imminent Corvettes and Cutter ships.

And here from 2016 and 2018:

Newsletter #120 from April 2016, where the imminent release of Engineers was being discussed
Newsleteer #249 in October 2018, where the imminent release of Beyond chapter 4 was discussed, including livestream reveals and forum posts.

The information contained in all the different posts, livestreams or articles etc in the above are essentially describing the upcoming short term content. Weather it has been Michael Brookes or other FDEV members, in a blog, forum post or livestream, level of detail and timing has been essentially the same since 2014.

 

[Alec Turner]

Ok, I'll do it. I'll waste my time looking for posts where people said FDEV should stop releasing new features and focus on bug fixing instead. I don't know why though. Maybe because it's Christmas.

September update bug fix wishlist

So, we're getting a new update in couple weeks and it made me wonder:"will this update introduce new bugs or will it actually fix few of the old ones?" I expect the answer being the former, but one can still dream, right? Anyways, here's a wishlist for a bug fixes or improvements we'd like to...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Fix this game that you sold me Frontier!!!!!!!!!!

It would be nice if you would fix this game that you sold. I am tired of going to the Mission Board and getting the failed to communicate with sever error message. This has been a regular occurrence for two weeks. Since I never have a problem accessing the galaxy and system maps the problem...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm done or "So long and thanks for all the fish."

I am done playing Elite until such a time as Frontier can pull their collective head outta ____ and finally put the QUALITY back into QA. Now I'm not making this post to tear them down or pick a fight with the white knights and fan boys. This is so that in the unlikely event that some fellow...

forums.frontier.co.uk

[video] The need for more "CONTENT"

https://youtu.be/RrhD9-RrmLY

forums.frontier.co.uk

I could go on and post a few hundred of these suggestions, but I guess you would just continue to claim that nobody ever asked for bug fixes instead of new features...

Acting as some kind of referee here ('cos I can see both sides of the argument) - did people in those posts really ask for "a delay" tho' or did they just ask for bugs to be fixed? The thing is, many people don't realise that getting one thing implies a cost elsewhere (unbelieveable but true). So sure, hundreds of people want bugs fixed - but if you explain that, OK, we can fix bugs, but it will mean a delay to <much-wanted-feature-X> then many people will bluster and say they want both and that no, they didn't ask for a delay.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Make communication right ?, you can't fix communication when one half of the conversation melts down and starts screaming at everything you say, or don't say or say you'll say.

So what we've been here twice now in this thread that's normal. People like yourself handle getting rid of the rubbish and whatever holds up is still a valid issue. It doesn't need avoiding at all.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Found a relevant post from Michael on the topic of ship transfer: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ameplay-by-the-developers.283153/post-4409715

Sandro was in favour of delay, according to MB.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

From memory (and I'll go digging for supporting quotes / video) Sandro was not in favour of instant - and preferred the original delayed ship transfer proposal, as discussed in the DDF. The push for instant would seem to have been driven by limited availability of Dev time in the implementation. Perhaps unsurprisingly, those expecting delayed didn't want instant. That Sandro had to try to sell instant to us was, in my opinion, unfair to him as it did not seem to be his position that he had to try to sell.

Well i was on reddit at the time and Sandro didn't sound like he had a gun to his head when he was selling it. I didn't know that. Sorry Max.

 

[CMDR Fnool]

I don't think the game has gone wrong as a whole, for a new player there's months of fun to be had there and at a very reasonable price now, especially with sales etc. Where it hasn't been as good perhaps is for us long-time players, struggling to find something new to do, but then, it's not subscription-based like some mmo's, so there's bound to be a different development cycle centred around new expansions. I think the game deserves better, but it's probably likely that it's a niche game despite everything, and the player numbers just don't add up for huge investment.

The only thing that interests me now even mildly is epxloration, the Elite Christmas has been symbolically cancelled with carriers held back, and the 100 free ARX a day just aren't a pull to log in. I personally need atmospheric planets to come back, i don't think even space-legs will do it for me, i'm at saturation point but overall Elite is a great experience, i don't think it's gone wrong, just that it can't deliver what we want from it. (as of now)

 

[babelfisch]

Acting as some kind of referee here ('cos I can see both sides of the argument) - did people in those posts really ask for "a delay" tho' or did they just ask for bugs to be fixed? The thing is, many people don't realise that getting one thing implies a cost elsewhere (unbelieveable but true). So sure, hundreds of people want bugs fixed - but if you explain that, OK, we can fix bugs, but it will mean a delay to <much-wanted-feature-X> then many people will bluster and say they want both and that no, they didn't ask for a delay.

They said 'stop releasing new features and fix bugs instead'.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Didn't "non-instant" ship transfer come from a community vote? I seem to recall massive discussions about this and FD basically going with majority rule? I also recall almost immediately regretting my decision for non-instant transfer and realising, pretty much as soon as the feature was launched, that FD had been right in suggesting that instant transfer might be better on this occasion in the lore vs. gameplay trade-off.

I voted timed and have never regretted it. But the team were divided. Michael Brookes though certainly wanted instant at first, but changed his mind. I remember because I had a big conversation with him about it.

 

[Alec Turner]

They said 'stop releasing new features and fix bugs instead'.

Fair enough - didn't do enough research into the links you shared - sorry.

 

[Stigbob]

So what we've been here twice now in this thread that's normal. People like yourself handle getting rid of the rubbish and whatever holds up is still a valid issue. It doesn't need avoiding at all.

It also doesn't need to be engaged with.

If the outcome is going to be screeching no matter what you say or don't say then its easier to go with the don't say option as it requires no actual input.

They said 'stop releasing new features and fix bugs instead'.

In exactly those words.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

It also doesn't need to be engaged with.

If the outcome is going to be screeching no matter what you say or don't say then its easier to go with the don't say option as it requires no actual input.

Screeching isn't an outcome unless all you want to do is look down on fellow community members. Its the game topics that matter. It goes mods -> white knights -> issues. Noone expects a formal response to junk. Having said, a developer might want to for public image reasons but of course no expectations.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Clearly it hasn't worked out.

Where do you think FD made a mis-step?

For me its making game multi player in the first place. That's literally it. They scrapped offline and went with quasi MMO/Coop/Sp always online thingmagic.

 

[Ezren]

They said 'stop releasing new features and fix bugs instead'.

This was precisely it. So

No one asked a delay.

Is just uninformed nonsense shocking I know.

 

[Rat Catcher]

This was precisely it. So

Is just uninformed nonsense shocking I know.

Wait for it...

 

[CMDR Carbo]

There is no "they" on a forum with hundreds of posters and dozens of opinions. Claiming that everybody that wanted the bugs fixed also wanted no new features is just as much nonsense.
I assume people would preferably have new features without bugs, and the bugs that still make it into the game to be adressed in the following update. At least that's how development is supposed to work.

 

[Riverside]

I am not saying anthing about delays or problems. Only that communication has not essentially changed much since Dec 2014.

When was the last Dev Diary post? Did they actually continue, everyone sees them except me? Or did they stop in June '16, with communication petering out in the March '16 thread? Even the forum sub-section has been removed/archived.

So why did the communication peter out? Your argument is that effectively they would have continued except they had nothing to tell us. That part is fair comment, obviously we cannot disprove this, and it is plausible.

But they haven't been doing nothing (according to what we have been told), it's just taking a long time. Was it planned to take a long time? Why, when progress is chased is nothing said? Why was no mention made about future premium content at FX17? Had that not been chased up it seems we would have no news at all.


Now I can certainly understand that an individual may think the amount of communication about future Premium content is fine, I have said so myself that for any base or base+Horizons customer, anything past 2.4 is a bonus so it's completely reasonable for an individual to not be expecting more information. But not all customers fit that criteria. I don't.

So

a) communication nosedived in about June 2016, and
b) regardless of anyone else's opinion, in my opinion the communication of the LEP has been terrible.