[Video] January update, was this what we ASKED?! & Fleet carrier delay...

[Ezren]

Why do you need a term for this?
Complaints are absolutely fine here, it's just you lot have trouble handling criticism of Frontier and take it as a personal offense. Which is why you then inevitably start with the personal jabs back, it's like you think you are Frontier or something, or can't really separate yourself from the game/company.

People who don't play the game generate their complaints without any firsthand knowledge and generally uninformed or misinformed opinions.

You don't seem to have any problem with the "white knight" moniker, but you're suddenly displeased at the shoe being on the other foot. A bit telling.

 

[Ezren]

@Ezren and @Stigbob with your mirrored avatars you look like you're about to sit down and play a game of Twilight Struggle

No we're totally different guys. See, I'm facing to the right, and have a cowboy hat.

 

[bitstorm]

People who don't play the game generate their complaints without any firsthand knowledge and generally uninformed or misinformed opinions.

You don't seem to have any problem with the "white knight" moniker, but you're suddenly displeased at the shoe being on the other foot. A bit telling.

Sorry what have you based that on? I really don't like the white knight moniker it helps nothing, I would much rather describe behaviours as above.

But regardless if I've said it, you won't find me gleefully brainstorming how I can label a group of folk I disagree with solely as a way to antagonize people.

edit: lol Ezren desperately searching now... need to find something...

 

[Stigbob]

I'm pretty glad about the mining changes, it was a bit too much, so now people will actually benefit from understanding how the economies work a bit better, and won't be able to get by so easily with just the third-party tools.

I've heard the game's running smoother than ever for some, but I haven't especially noticed. I'm glad for a cleaner performance, I know it was always worse on the consoles.

Void opals were daft you could make pots of cash which wrecks progression, however people are always jumping on credit exploits so why not have easy in game dosh if it'll happen anyway. Doesn't change things for me as I've accrued quite a lot of space-cash by generally pootling around since 2014.

That's the opposite of the actual problem. It is generally the NPCs that engage in personal attacks, and then get all huffy when the response is in kind.

If we somehow managed to whisk away from the forum those that haven't played for several updates and patches, there will still be plenty of complaining here on the forum. But it would be a lot more constructive criticism I bet.

S

It would definitely make the complaints a lot more accurate instead of just "I read on the internet".

I think you confuse criticism aimed at Frontier and criticism aimed at a person posting.

Frontier is a big company they can handle it and although it might not always be worded as you want there will often be some justification for it.

I'm more talking about the personal attacks on people (often criticising Frontier) as being the issue. I honestly don't care if someone says Frontier did a bad job, it doesn't bother me, some folk here take it a touch too personally though.

I like dev communication, the toxic 0.1% have already pretty much ended that for us all by constantly attacking them.

Here's an article all about it :

The topic every game dev is talking about behind closed doors : The cost of doing business

Content warning : I’ve embedded some tweets to various developers that show the sorts of comments that they receive every day. There’s some…

medium.com

 

[Sysmon]

Sorry what have you based that on? I really don't like the white knight moniker it helps nothing, I would much rather describe behaviours as above.

But regardless if I've said it, you won't find me gleefully brainstorming how I can label a group of folk I disagree with solely as a way to antagonize people.

edit: lol Ezren desperately searching now... need to find something...

The thing is, we don't (always) disagree. It's the tone of the argument from the onset that polarises the discussion.

S

 

[Ezren]

Sorry what have you based that on? I really don't like the white knight moniker it helps nothing, I would much rather describe behaviours as above.

But regardless if I've said it, you won't find me gleefully brainstorming how I can label a group of folk I disagree with solely as a way to antagonize people.

edit: lol Ezren desperately searching now... need to find something...

Not really. You said nothing as "white knight" was thrown around.

The difference is that "forum undead" or whatever is indicative of somebody's objective choice to stop playing the game but continue to haunt the forums. "white knight" is just a slur thrown at people who disagree with complaining.

 

[bitstorm]

I like dev communication, the toxic 0.1% have already pretty much ended that for us all by constantly attacking them.

It's weird SC still does regular dev updates, what's the difference?

I do think it's debatable what causes the toxicity. ie do you think you've contributed at all. When for example a LEP thread goes 60 pages, when it could have been 5 and people trying to defend Frontier are banned from the thread.

You don't think people's need to take criticism of Frontier personally in any way contributes. ie when what would normally be a simple complaint that would soon blow over, turns into a 60 page ****fest that has to eventually be locked. You know it takes two sides to have an argument right?

People absolutely are free to complain here.

 

[Ezren]

The thing is, we don't (always) disagree. It's the tone of the argument from the onset that polarises the discussion.

S

I always enjoy when somebody calls me a "White Knight" because it's just pure nonsense. I have criticisms of the game and had even stopped playing for over a year when I got frustrated. Difference being, I didn't dramatically stomp off the forums or crowbar a complaint into every topic I could find.

If you replace "White Knight" with "adult" it really makes a difference.

 

[Stigbob]

I really don't like the white knight moniker it helps nothing, I would much rather describe behaviours as above.

I'm fine with it.

 

[bitstorm]

Not really. You said nothing as "white knight" was thrown around.

The difference is that "forum undead" or whatever is indicative of somebody's objective choice to stop playing the game but continue to haunt the forums.

Is it, it sounds like someone who left the forum for an extended period then came back.

But regardless why would I be bothered, you can complain about any aspect of the game you want, why would that upset me? Why does it matter how long you've played or your gametime or what your posting frequency is. It just seems like you want easy reasons to be able to dismiss criticism of the game out of hand.

 

[Stigbob]

It's weird SC still does regular dev updates, what's the difference?

I do think it's debatable what causes the toxicity. ie do you think you've contributed at all. When for example a LEP thread goes 60 pages, when it could have been 5 and people trying to defend Frontier are banned from the thread.

You don't think people's need to take criticism of Frontier personally in any way exacerbates what its normally a simple complaint that would blow over into 60 page ****fest that has to eventually be locked contributes at all? You know it takes two sides to have an argument right?

People absolutely are free to complain here.

You can't sell the rubes $35,000 dollar space-ship packages if you are not talking to them and they've been banning anyone who points out the emperor is naked for half a decade so it's not really a valid comparison. On top of that ED is a video game so again different kettle of fish entirely.

Nobodies saying people can't spend years constantly inserting their trivial self inflicted personal video game related bugbear or demand into the forum, people less furious just find it funny. Like the kid who used to attack the machines in the arcade and then have a tantrum because he couldn't understand why he wasn't allowed back in.

 

[RevCaoticFox]

I was just being funny. I get the feeling from a lot of people's posts that a lot of the veterans have already quit playing and only check in intermittently to see if anything worth doing has been added

truer than not, however FD seems to only be listening to the VETs that are no longer even playing, rather than the active community.

 

[Vandaahl]

truer than not, however FD seems to only be listening to the VETs that are no longer even playing, rather than the active community.

Why's that?

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

You do realise that you are doing exactly what you accuse Taimaru of doing - exaggerating the extent of bugs in the game. If ED is the worst game you have played then all I can say is you have either not played many games or you are the luckiest gamer in history not to experience bugs. I have played games that I couldn't even load they were that bugged, or if I could they were basically unplayable. One comes to mind is Sniper Ghost Warrior, not a bad shooter except for the P... poor map construction. Never have I played a so called open sandbox game with any area off the normal track nearly guaranteed to glitch you. Even big name companies have disasters, EA is one that comes to mind - remember the total failure of one of their Star Wars shooters on release, totally unplayable. Or even the fan's favourite here in NMS - totally unplayable at launch, the developers had to do just about a total rewrite just to get players using the game. Yes they did do an apparent decent job in the end but they had to, their only other choice was to close up the shop and walk away.

So ask yourself this, if the game is so full of bugs, so poorly designed that you find it the buggiest game in the history of games, how do you manage to play it. Surely it wouldn't even start if it is that bad!

I m not exaggerating my personal experiences at all. I havent stated an issue that i havent experienced enough times consistently to make me believe in what i say. I continue to play because its still the best thing towards what i enjoy doing in this manner. There isnt one other single game on console that compares. Thats why its so important to me

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Why's that?

Probably because some of those vets were financial backers but i dont know this really

 

[Viajero]

True, that just makes the idea of in-game time even sillier.

Not really, if a game is as bug broken as suggested here by some patrons then players would probably not be able to play it for hundreds or thousands of hours.

Then why the hell are you mentioning play time?

See above.

A strawman?

Yes. They were strawmen because you misrepresented the original proposition introducing elements of your own and assigning them to said OP (elements such as "value", "averages", "game critics" etc). And then tried to counter your own unnecessary elements as if you were countering the OP. Text book strawman.

I directly gave a reason as to why it's possible to play a buggy game with little inconvenience which is in direct oposition to what you claimed

That is also incorrect I am afraid. It was me who actually introduced the concept before you joined in (It may still very well turn out we actually agree in the end! ):

There is always room to improve. Any game. The part I think you lend maybe a bit too much credence to is thinking that some of the issues you mention are as dramatic or game breaking, as you perceive them to be, for everyone else. Some may not be issues at all, others may be just an easy workaround away, and some may not have even appeared in the radar of many a player with different playstyle to yours. One of the great things in Elite is precisely the vast amount of gameplay options available (complexity which ironically may be also the source of some of the issues you list).

The result, bugs and all, is that Elite is a game many play for hundreds or even thousands of hours. Not sure about you but in my case not many games can claim that record from me in my library.

Or seen from a slightly different angle, and as final food for thought, if we can play "a buggy game with little inconvenience", as you say, how serious the problem is in the first place?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

No summary, no watch. No watch, no view count. No view count, no ad revenue.

 

[Sysmon]

No summary, no watch. No watch, no view count. No view count, no ad revenue.

Pretty neat to be able to drop a video link in the OP and then just lean back and watch the fireworks. Kudos to the Yamiks at least for that.

S

 

[StuartGT]

You can't sell the rubes $35,000 dollar space-ship packages if you are not talking to them and they've been banning anyone who points out the emperor is naked for half a decade so it's not really a valid comparison. On top of that ED is a video game so again different kettle of fish entirely.

Nobodies saying people can't spend years constantly inserting their trivial self inflicted personal video game related bugbear or demand into the forum, people less furious just find it funny. Like the kid who used to attack the machines in the arcade and then have a tantrum because he couldn't understand why he wasn't allowed back in.

Dreams > reality
...for funding

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Not really, if a game is as bug ridden or broken as suggested here by some patrons then players would not play it for hundreds or thousands of hours.

Ignoring the fact that I already adressed this, how is that relevant to the quote?

Yes. They were strawmen because you misrepresented the original proposition introducing elements of your own and assigning them to said OP (elements such as "value", "averages", "game critics" etc). And then tried to counter your own unnecessary elements as if you were countering the OP. Text book strawman.

I wasn't adressing the OP, I really don't know where you got that idea.

That is also incorrect I am afraid.

That some bugs are more visible than others and that some only affect a feature in particular is a fact.

It was me who actually introduced the concept before you joined in (It may still very well turn out we actually agree in the end! ):

How is that relevant?

Or seen from a slightly different angle, and as final food for thought, if we can play "a buggy game with little inconvenience", as you say, how serious the problem is in the first place?

If you happen to not play the part affected by the bug, it's not a big deal, if you do, it's a big deal.