[Video] January update, was this what we ASKED?! & Fleet carrier delay...

Let's take a crack at this.

Statting things doesn't make them true which is something you've been indulging in.
Just saying they're not true doesn't disprove them, either.

You've stated this:
I assure you that if I don’t like a game or if it is broken I don’t play it thousands of hours.
Which contradicts the idea that you can play a buggy game.
You're conflating "broken" with "buggy", and really inflating a few bugs into a greater problem than they are.

Stating things you haven't stated is not a strawman, it's simply part of the argumentation, also, read above.
Arguing against something that is not somebody's argument is pretty much definitively a strawman. You're replacing what they said with what they did not say, as you just stated.

A bug broken game is also suceptible to a lack of consensus for different reasons, hence, it's not a sign for either case.
This statement is saying nothing. Vague reference to "different reasons" to support your vague statement.

A generalization isn't masking an opinion as fact...
Are you making an argument against yourself here? You're acting as though your opinions prove your other opinions true.

Your suspect is incorrect, the use of patron was simply vague:
The use of patron was correct.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Statting things doesn't make them true which is something you've been indulging in.

That is ironic given that I was saying exactly that to the post I responded to and you have also indulged in the same when referencing bugs without distinction as a "big deal". As for me, I never claimed such thing.

You've stated this:

Which contradicts the idea that you can play a buggy game.

Except I never said that you can not play a buggy game. All games have bugs and in fact I said as much in my OP and later. I suggest you read it.

The issue here is not if you can play a game with bugs or not (most games do have bugs). That is another strawman of yours. The question I argued in my OP is about how serious and recurrent those bugs are for players.

Some have stated universally that Elite is a bug ridden broken game. You seem now to agree that stating things does not make them true. I am glad we agree.

The fact many players claim to have played hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues simply further supports my view.

Stating things you haven't stated is not a strawman, it's simply part of the argumentation, also, read above.

It is a strawman when you are addressing something that I have not said or used to support my view. My argument has nothing to do with your "value", "game critics" or "averages". Those are different discussions. My argument is with regards to how broken the game is due to the bugs (or not broken as the case may be).

We would if you actually were consistent with your statements.

I am afraid that I only have one argument. You trying your multiple strawmen here does not change that.

A bug broken game is also suceptible to a lack of consensus for different reasons, hence, it's not a sign for either case.

Are you stating as fact that Elite is a bug broken game?

A generalization isn't masking an opinion as fact...

That depends on how you continue the discussion when someone challenges your generalization. So far you seem to have admitted that not all bugs in Elite are a "big deal" after all. I am glad we agree aswell here.

Your suspect is incorrect, the use of patron was simply vague

Not really, the use was within context and straightforward.
 
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FDev: Releases questionable patch
Community: Uproar
Community: Open letter with demands
FDev: Ok, we'll do the bugs and testing
Community: Wha?! Is this what we asked for?!

EVERY TIME

someone: posts some criticism
knights anonymous: dismisses it with a reductio ad absurdum (and looses all his forum arx for making it neither true nor funny. pick at least one!).

EVERY TIME
 
someone: posts some criticism
knights anonymous: dismisses it with a reductio ad absurdum (and looses all his forum arx for making it neither true nor funny. pick at least one!).

EVERY TIME
Well, aside from digging all the way back to Tuesday for that one, it's pretty much exactly accurate.

Yamiks made a video and pushed the Open Letter, which asked for more priority bug fixes. FD prioritizes bug fixes, and... "is this what we ASKED!?".

Yes. It is.
 
Well, aside from digging all the way back to Tuesday for that one, it's pretty much exactly accurate.

Yamiks made a video and pushed the Open Letter, which asked for more priority bug fixes. FD prioritizes bug fixes, and... "is this what we ASKED!?".

Yes. It is.
[/QUOT
Well, aside from digging all the way back to Tuesday for that one, it's pretty much exactly accurate.

Yamiks made a video and pushed the Open Letter, which asked for more priority bug fixes. FD prioritizes bug fixes, and... "is this what we ASKED!?".

Yes. It is.
Yeah, yamiks sucks.
 
Are you just using terms you've seen on the internet at random?

actually, i mistook you for stigbob. your new avatar combination really doesn't help!

and i wasn't really gonna bite into your false argument (i'm too boomer for that myself! and tens of pages of that haven't changed squat), but a bit of stingy camaraderie is always handy!
 
someone: posts some criticism

There's a difference between critique and asking for exactly what was given, only to make a video about both for clicks.
As for white knighting, I honestly don't care either way. I came here to watch people attack each other for graphics.
Take that as you will though, coomer.
 
actually, i mistook you for stigbob. your new avatar combination really doesn't help!

and i wasn't really gonna bite into your false argument (i'm too boomer for that myself! and tens of pages of that haven't changed squat), but a bit of stingy camaraderie is always handy!
I'm obviously facing right and have a cowboy hat.

If my argument (which is just an observation) is false, you could pretty easily point out what was false about it.
 
actually, i mistook you for stigbob. your new avatar combination really doesn't help!

and i wasn't really gonna bite into your false argument (i'm too boomer for that myself! and tens of pages of that haven't changed squat), but a bit of stingy camaraderie is always handy!

Boomers the coolest cat in the twelve colonies.
View attachment 159220
 
Just saying they're not true doesn't disprove them, either.

True, the burden is still on him given he's the one making the claim.

You're conflating "broken" with "buggy", and really inflating a few bugs into a greater problem than they are.

Unless he's talking about balance, "broken" implies issues with bugs, hence, buggy. The rest of the quote is a strawman.

Arguing against something that is not somebody's argument is pretty much definitively a strawman. You're replacing what they said with what they did not say, as you just stated.

No, I mentioned new concepts for my own argumentation, I definetly did argue against what he stated, hence, no strawman.

This statement is saying nothing. Vague reference to "different reasons" to support your vague statement.

I supposed you'd be smart enough to find one such reason, one example would be a game so ridden with bugs that comparing all of them would be futile.

Are you making an argument against yourself here? You're acting as though your opinions prove your other opinions true.

If I was genuinly arguing against myself (I am not) I wouldn't be acting as if my opinions prove my other opinions would I?

The use of patron was correct.

Nobobdy uses that word to talk about a customer.
 
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I'm obviously facing right and have a cowboy hat.

my days of fighting for ui usability have ended, so nowadays i sometimes simply squint my eyes. works but can have side effects! 😑

If my argument (which is just an observation) is false, you could pretty easily point out what was false about it.

the only reason you have to state that the 'delay' is a response to the open letter is that frontier stated so, which is as dubious as an assurance as can be. there is a lot of evidence though pointing to other factors (which have been discussed at length so i won't re-iterate).

even if it were true, what the openletterers where asking for was quality, period. it means doing work professionally. a delay is not necessarily a requirement for that (although it can be fairly accepted as a necessity when stuff has gone too stale, which is the case). (they also naively asked for 'beta' which was a gross miscalculation on their part).

least but not last ... frontier has ostensibly not changed their ways (sloppy beta, untested code in release, etc), which is what the delay was supposed to be for.

now, you may agree with yamiks or not, i don't share much of his opinion myself, but the sequence of events i just described can hardly be disputed. in that scenario the whole "players don't know what they want and will moan anyway", while enclosing a fundamental and universal truth is completely uncalled for and is simply an ad-hominem (at a whole diffuse and abstract collective). i'll grant you that yamiks' poor choice of video title had it coming ... :ROFLMAO:
 
my days of fighting for ui usability have ended, so nowadays i sometimes simply squint my eyes. works but can have side effects! 😑



the only reason you have to state that the 'delay' is a response to the open letter is that frontier stated so, which is as dubious as an assurance as can be. there is a lot of evidence though pointing to other factors (which have been discussed at length so i won't re-iterate).

even if it were true, what the openletterers where asking for was quality, period. it means doing work professionally. a delay is not necessarily a requirement for that (although it can be fairly accepted as a necessity when stuff has gone too stale, which is the case). (they also naively asked for 'beta' which was a gross miscalculation on their part).

least but not last ... frontier has ostensibly not changed their ways (sloppy beta, untested code in release, etc), which is what the delay was supposed to be for.

now, you may agree with yamiks or not, i don't share much of his opinion myself, but the sequence of events i just described can hardly be disputed. in that scenario the whole "players don't know what they want and will moan anyway", while enclosing a fundamental and universal truth is completely uncalled for and is simply an ad-hominem (at a whole diffuse and abstract collective). i'll grant you that yamiks' poor choice of video title had it coming ... :ROFLMAO:
You can't sign a petition that literally says: "We don’t ask for new content", and then turn around and complain that there's no new content.

And as for this:
least but not last ... frontier has ostensibly not changed their ways (sloppy beta, untested code in release, etc), which is what the delay was supposed to be for.
There are very few issues with the January update, and many were ironed out incredibly quickly. There was a beta. The update included many player-requested changes.

It's like the more FD does, the further the goalposts move.
 
That is ironic given that I was saying exactly that to the post I responded to and you have also indulged in the same when referencing bugs without distinction as a "big deal". As for me, I never claimed such thing.

I was simply being laconical, how come you don't understand that?

Except I never said that you can not play a buggy game. All games have bugs and in fact I said as much in my OP and later. I suggest you read it.

The issue here is not if you can play a game with bugs or not (most games do have bugs). That is another strawman of yours. The question I argued in my OP is about how serious and recurrent those bugs are for players.

Some have stated universally that Elite is a bug ridden broken game. You seem now to agree that stating things does not make them true. I am glad we agree.

The fact many players claim to have played hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues simply further supports my view.

You are using a very ridiculous definition of "buggy" I must say, that is, a game with bugs. Because of this you claim I have stated things I in fact did not which is the pinnacle of strawmans.

It is a strawman when you are addressing something that I have not said or used to support my view. My argument has nothing to do with your "value", "game critics" or "averages". Those are different discussions. My argument is with regards to how broken the game is due to the bugs (or not broken as the case may be).

And as it happens to be, those three words are related to bugs which is why I used them. A strawman is not using words you didn't use, no wonder you fling such accusations left and right.

I am afraid that I only have one argument. You trying your multiple strawmen here does not change that.

And that such argument you've argued against, hence, you're being inconsistent.

That depends on how you continue the discussion when someone challenges your generalization. So far you seem to have admitted that not all bugs in Elite are a "big deal" after all. I am glad we agree aswell here.

Admitted? That's bloody obvious.

Not really, the use was within context and straightforward.

Nobody I've ever heard uses "patron" as a synonym of "customer".
 
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